Kyokushin and Taekwondo

Benny the jet had a mean spinning side kick, some TKD dude probably taught him.
Check it out here
 
This is the first (only?) spinning sidekick KO in UFC, performed by a TKD black belt

 
I got a question: Do any of the karate/tkd/etc guys kick a small very light bag that will swing/move around alot. For example maybe a slip or maize bag, or maybe a smaller lighter punching bag? seems like it would be good to work on movement with your kicks to me.

For TKD ITF, (and from my experience only, cant talk about all the other schools). For footwork, and movement with kicks, we usually use a partner that holds boxing mitts. We just move around like we would in a fight, and every now and them he will "show" the mitts... And you just have to adapt your distance and kick.
For example he may run/closing the distance with a straight mitt at his chest... you should use a jumping defensive back kick. If he does the same but the mitts are side ways, you do a jumping back roundhouse... Its not quite the same as mitts work from boxing or MT. The guy with the mitts is really moving like fighting, with proper footwork, speed in and out...And you don't know when he will make an opening, or what kind it will be. It's more about reflexes and fast decisions than proper technique and power...

At my place, (home made gym), i have one heavy bag MT style, but I've got also a very light smaller one. It helps me with movement when i train alone, but it's not the same as with a partner...
I also use a double end bag from boxing, but its not so much for movement, but more for precision and speed of the kick...
 
For TKD ITF, (and from my experience only, cant talk about all the other schools). For footwork, and movement with kicks, we usually use a partner that holds boxing mitts. We just move around like we would in a fight, and every now and them he will "show" the mitts... And you just have to adapt your distance and kick.
For example he may run/closing the distance with a straight mitt at his chest... you should use a jumping defensive back kick. If he does the same but the mitts are side ways, you do a jumping back roundhouse... Its not quite the same as mitts work from boxing or MT. The guy with the mitts is really moving like fighting, with proper footwork, speed in and out...And you don't know when he will make an opening, or what kind it will be. It's more about reflexes and fast decisions than proper technique and power...

At my place, (home made gym), i have one heavy bag MT style, but I've got also a very light smaller one. It helps me with movement when i train alone, but it's not the same as with a partner...
I also use a double end bag from boxing, but its not so much for movement, but more for precision and speed of the kick...

I have a double end bag as well, you kick your double end bag? send a video if so please, also a video of the padwork you are speaking of.

I am sketched out about kicking with the foot. I think if you kick with the foot to anywhere other than the head your going to injure yourself.
 
I am sketched out about kicking with the foot. I think if you kick with the foot to anywhere other than the head your going to injure yourself.

I agree, but that's not the way they think in TKD... You have no idea how many time we've discussed that with my TKD trainer... (and they also use foot protection when fighting)

Anyway, for the double end bag... I've got it a head hight, so even when i train for roundhouses with the foot, it's something useful for both MT and TKD...
But i mostly use it to train stuffs like hook kick, brazilian kicks, side kicks, back kicks...
Since the target is a lot smaller than a heavy bag, you got better feed back on precision. And it also helps with balance, since you can't put your weight on it to "bounce back".
If your balance is compromised, you will know it. The heavy bag, will "help" you by absorbing some power before moving. (not sure if i' m clear)
 
I got a question: Do any of the karate/tkd/etc guys kick a small very light bag that will swing/move around alot. For example maybe a slip or maize bag, or maybe a smaller lighter punching bag? seems like it would be good to work on movement with your kicks to me.

We sometimes use small balls (often tennis balls) tied by strings to the roof (or equipment hanging just above head height -you do not want too long strings). good for precision and timing in kicks. I have used maize bags and a lot of other equipment, but it is all done rarely. The bulk of training are pads of varying sizes and types, and large heavy bags.
But we are not too tradition bound in kyokushin. We happily include new types of equipment and training methods if we think they are any good, so you can find a lot of stuff in different dojos.
 
Kyokushin



Kyokushin offshots




 
There are actually TKD schools that teach kicking with the shin as an option, and some do it by themselves. It's not as dogmatic as people might think. The theory behind kicking with the foot is that the ball of the foot variation will protect it from breaking. The instep can be conditioned to work outside of competition, though.

We sometimes kick with no protection and besides the bloodyness, it's fine.
 
Kyokushin and ITF TaekwonDo have a fairly large overlap. Some KK instructors come from ITF bakgrounds. Mas Oyamas was of course Korean also.
I have mostly seem demonstrations but a lot of the kicking seem to overlap with ITF TKD. The Olympic style has diverged though into its own thing and is very different.
 
I have a double end bag as well, you kick your double end bag? send a video if so please, also a video of the padwork you are speaking of.

I am sketched out about kicking with the foot. I think if you kick with the foot to anywhere other than the head your going to injure yourself.
it depends how your foot is built. If you have sensitive feet you may be right. Personally for me though I have hobbit feet and I blast people with kicks to the body and legs all the time. usually the inside low kick with the instep and to the liver and stomach with the big toe.
 
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I agree, but that's not the way they think in TKD... You have no idea how many time we've discussed that with my TKD trainer... (and they also use foot protection when fighting) up

Anyway, for the double end bag... I've got it a head hight, so even when i train for roundhouses with the foot, it's something useful for both MT and TKD...
But i mostly use it to train stuffs like hook kick, brazilian kicks, side kicks, back kicks...
Since the target is a lot smaller than a heavy bag, you got better feed back on precision. And it also helps with balance, since you can't put your weight on it to "bounce back".
If your balance is compromised, you will know it. The heavy bag, will "help" you by absorbing some power before moving. (not sure if i' m clear)

Yes I understand, what do you think of as far as kicking the double end bag with my foot, as if the double end bag was a paddle
 
it depends how your foot is built. If you have sensitive feet you may be right. Personally for me though I have hobbit feet and I blast people with kicks to the body and legs all the time. usually the inside low kick with the instep and to the liver and stomach with the big toe.

Yes, good Target's for the foot but the risk if they block it is high for injury. I find it's easy to injure your foot when kicking with it
 
awesome stuff, subscribed!
I think the channel has been dead for some years BUT the videos which are still there helped me with my technique and can help you too.
 
it depends how your foot is built. If you have sensitive feet you may be right. Personally for me though I have hobbit feet and I blast people with kicks to the body and legs all the time. usually the inside low kick with the instep and to the liver and stomach with the big toe.

Been cross training TKD about 7 years now, so I've conditioned my foot a bit. But any time I fight MT, if i use my foot to mid kick or low kick, when i catch a elbow or a knee, i destroy my toes or the lower part of the foot.
Over the years i've probably broke or fractured a dozen times every toe...
I some time try to use the ball of the foot to dig in the liver, but i know it will be risky.
In TKD, it's not a problem, since they don't check with knees or block with elbows...

Yes I understand, what do you think of as far as kicking the double end bag with my foot, as if the double end bag was a paddle

Sorry, not sure i understand what you mean... Do you have an example? Or if you can explain it in another way? My english isn't that good, and some expressions are hard for me to understand...
 
Machida kicked the foot in mma and never broke it.. Had a few kos
 
Been cross training TKD about 7 years now, so I've conditioned my foot a bit. But any time I fight MT, if i use my foot to mid kick or low kick, when i catch a elbow or a knee, i destroy my toes or the lower part of the foot.
Over the years i've probably broke or fractured a dozen times every toe...
I some time try to use the ball of the foot to dig in the liver, but i know it will be risky.
In TKD, it's not a problem, since they don't check with knees or block with elbows...



Sorry, not sure i understand what you mean... Do you have an example? Or if you can explain it in another way? My english isn't that good, and some expressions are hard for me to understand...

leave the double end bag in place and kick it with my instep, the same way I would as if a partner was holding a paddle for me to kick. so basically doing a roundhouse kick on the double end bag with the instep of my foot.

This looks like a good drill as well.

 
Been cross training TKD about 7 years now, so I've conditioned my foot a bit. But any time I fight MT, if i use my foot to mid kick or low kick, when i catch a elbow or a knee, i destroy my toes or the lower part of the foot.
Over the years i've probably broke or fractured a dozen times every toe...
I some time try to use the ball of the foot to dig in the liver, but i know it will be risky.
In TKD, it's not a problem, since they don't check with knees or block with elbows.
oh I should of said in muay thai or sparring with mma guys. I'm pretty good about timing punches with kicks so there is usually a gap when I land. Maybe the guys you spar are just better. Its a reactive kick when I blast people with my feet, not one where I make the first move. Most of the people I spar just have amateur fights.
 
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leave the double end bag in place and kick it with my instep, the same way I would as if a partner was holding a paddle for me to kick. so basically doing a roundhouse kick on the double end bag with the instep of my foot.

You can, but not with a classic MT roundhouse... You'll need to use a snap kick. For me, since that's the way I do high kicks, it's ok (Snap + foot). But if you're used to kick through your target even when you go high, it may mess with your technique...


oh I should of said in muay thai or sparring with mma guys. I'm pretty good about timing punches with kicks so there is usually a gap when I land. Maybe the guys you spar are just better. Its a reactive kick when I blast people with my feet, not one where I make the first move. Most of the people I spar just have amateur fights.

I can understand you make it work for MMA, since people don't check mid kicks with the shin/knee, and even for the low kicks, they don't usually do a proper check... They just raise the leg, without really turning the shin to the strike. So most of the times you'll hit the calves...

But for MT, I'm intrigued. I understand it's a reactive kick when they punch, so it's an open target...But usually if they are in a punching distance, you are not in a foot kicking distance... you are closer... at best you are at shin kicking distance. Or maybe i dint understand exactly what you meant?

And when you say it's a reactive kick, even then, some times the guys must have the reflex to retract the elbows? Never caught an elbow that way?
I'm just curious because I've got fairly good shins, but i can't get away with a foot kick... Kinda of jealous...
 
You can, but not with a classic MT roundhouse... You'll need to use a snap kick. For me, since that's the way I do high kicks, it's ok (Snap + foot). But if you're used to kick through your target even when you go high, it may mess with your technique...




I can understand you make it work for MMA, since people don't check mid kicks with the shin/knee, and even for the low kicks, they don't usually do a proper check... They just raise the leg, without really turning the shin to the strike. So most of the times you'll hit the calves...

But for MT, I'm intrigued. I understand it's a reactive kick when they punch, so it's an open target...But usually if they are in a punching distance, you are not in a foot kicking distance... you are closer... at best you are at shin kicking distance. Or maybe i dint understand exactly what you meant?

And when you say it's a reactive kick, even then, some times the guys must have the reflex to retract the elbows? Never caught an elbow that way?
I'm just curious because I've got fairly good shins, but i can't get away with a foot kick... Kinda of jealous...
Yeah I've been caught with an elbow. I banged up my instep once or twice. Haha one time I did the elbow catching thing with a guy and right after he did the same thing to me lol! I think because most of the guys I sparred are more worried about being hit by punches and spar hard, the kicks are easier to pull through. Also since I have no fear about hurting myself or where my kicks land there is less hesitation. I just have really wide,heavy feet. Also sometimes because the kicks come from farther away they don't see them coming as much or expect them to land.

as far as kicking when they punch, alot of guys throw punches to close the distance or spam and thats when I typically land with the foot. I usually turn the foot so it lands with the toes. so its not that much longer than a shin kick. I only do the inside leg kick with the instep like in kyokushin. Honestly I wouldnt recommend roundkicking with the foot that much as I can't explain it all that well on here. There is an anderson silva vid where he roundhouses around the arms and it hits the body with his foot. My typical money footkick isnt my round house but my front kick. I really liked to drill my big toe in there okinawan style. edit: here is the vid
 
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