Kron Signed by UFC

dsdoubled said:
I think this is dead on. With the level of wrestling or TDD possessed by your average, athletic, UFC fighter, and with the level of wrestling possessed by particularly good wrestlers, maybe it's just not the smartest most effective strategy for a pure Bjj type fighter to pay much attention to their takedowns.
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There are a fair number of people who think this and those people always lose.

The sorts of people who adopt a mindset where they are already defeated... are gonna be defeated.
 
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dsdoubled said:
I think this is dead on. With the level of wrestling or TDD possessed by your average, athletic, UFC fighter, and with the level of wrestling possessed by particularly good wrestlers, maybe it's just not the smartest most effective strategy for a pure Bjj type fighter to pay much attention to their takedowns. Certainly they should be competent and good enough to snatch an opportune takedown, but to win fights with Bjj perhaps a more novel approach is called for.
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i think bjj guys shouldnt focus much on doubles vs good guys since you gotta have a super good drive and great angles to finish sing legs and trip finishes off singles is the best approach and body locks if a bit stronger
 
rmongler said:
There are a fair number of people who think this and those people always lose.

The sorts of people who adopt a mindset where they are already defeated... are gonna be defeated.
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i see what your saying but for instance u cant be a jake shields level striker and go out saying im gonna work my ass off on my striking have confidence and go out and outstrike wonderboy same reason demian maia usually doesnt go out and technically wrestle guys hitting them with doubles maia has single leg run the pipes and tons of tricky off balance trips not fundamental explosive doubles most wrestlers do
 
tekkenfan said:
i see what your saying but for instance u cant be a jake shields level striker and go out saying im gonna work my ass off on my striking have confidence and go out and outstrike wonderboy same reason demian maia usually doesnt go out and technically wrestle guys hitting them with doubles maia has single leg run the pipes and tons of tricky off balance trips not fundamental explosive doubles most wrestlers do
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I'll put it like this: If you want to play soccer you learn to dribble; if you want to fight mma you learn to wrestle. It's practically the water you're swimming in.

If it isn't in you to have the takedown defense to keep the fight standing and work your strikes, or it isn't in you to have the takedown offense to hold a guy down and work your ground fighting... you can consider trying a different sport better suited to your abilities.
 
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rmongler said:
I'll put it like this: If you want to play soccer you learn to dribble; if you want to fight mma you learn to wrestle. It's practically the water you're swimming in.

If it isn't in you to have the takedown defense to keep the fight standing and work your strikes, or it isn't in you to have the takedown offense to hold a guy down and work your ground fighting... you can consider trying a different sport better suited to your abilities.
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tbh even alot of top level guys had those issues carlos condit always got takendown when guys really wanted to take him down he had guys t work with but i guess his long lanky body type it was just so easy to wrap the arms around him
 
tekkenfan said:
tbh even alot of top level guys had those issues carlos condit always got takendown when guys really wanted to take him down he had guys t work with but i guess his long lanky body type it was just so easy to wrap the arms around him
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I wouldn't say that's a lot, guys like Condit or Diaz are pretty unique examples compared to most of their peers on the same level after all. It's also why they never managed to get or hang onto their championships either.

In spite, perhaps, of their great talents otherwise even.
 
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tekkenfan said:
jake was a wrestler and also was a different time n mma back then
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back when? he's still competing today and his striking is still godawful

my point still stands that working with the Diaz brothers doesn't guarantee competent striking
 
rmongler said:
I'll put it like this: If you want to play soccer you learn to dribble; if you want to fight mma you learn to wrestle. It's practically the water you're swimming in.

If it isn't in you to have the takedown defense to keep the fight standing and work your strikes, or it isn't in you to have the takedown offense to hold a guy down and work your ground fighting... you can consider trying a different sport better suited to your abilities.
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You could have a ground game scary enough like Ryan Hall has to keep people from wanting to grapple with you, but you still need to be able to out strike them.
 
yetanother said:
Not sure how good kicking is if you main priority is to avoid takedowns.
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oh I thought the discussion was about NEITHER of them wanting it to go to the ground, but you're right, it makes more sense for Kron to take it there because he has no other options. It's still strange to me that a grappler as strong as Gray Maynard was so terrified of Hall's ground game that he'd prefer to just lose by decision than take a risk.
 
Double Dragon said:
oh I thought the discussion was about NEITHER of them wanting it to go to the ground, but you're right, it makes more sense for Kron to take it there because he has no other options. It's still strange to me that a grappler as strong as Gray Maynard was so terrified of Hall's ground game that he'd prefer to just lose by decision than take a risk.
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I feel like the one time Ryan actually got a good bite on the leg he looked pretty closed to finishing (until he tried to protest the upkick).
 
yetanother said:
You could have a ground game scary enough like Ryan Hall has to keep people from wanting to grapple with you, but you still need to be able to out strike them.
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The question there though is, how much investment does it take to have a submission grappling game effective enough to such an extent that a top 10 guy in the world will not even want to tangle with you, compared to how much investment it takes to have takedown defense effective enough to stop him if he tries?

I'd say the latter takes less than the former, and a guy who tries to rely on the former strategy will tend to either, not have sufficient investment in their striking and get pieced up, or, will not have sufficient investment in playing off their back such that they have an overwhelming disparity in aptitude, and get pieced up if someone calls their bluff.

Which actually is something that has already happened to Hall, when Saul Rodgers beat him.
 
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hes competing today and
Double Dragon said:
back when? he's still competing today and his striking is still godawful

my point still stands that working with the Diaz brothers doesn't guarantee competent striking
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getting destroyed did u not see his last 3 fights? he has 0 drive when he hits his signature head outside single a lot has t do with age but also jake always only had that 1 takedown
 
tekkenfan said:
hes competing today and

getting destroyed did u not see his last 3 fights? he has 0 drive when he hits his signature head outside single a lot has t do with age but also jake always only had that 1 takedown
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Ok, he's still "active" today, and yes I saw his last 2 PFL losses to ... forgot his name :D
 
cooper
Double Dragon said:
Ok, he's still "active" today, and yes I saw his last 2 PFL losses to ... forgot his name :D
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the 3rd lol jake actually beat up his dad back n 2004 in japan and he came back to get revenge but isnt just him jakes struggled quite a bit since 2015 i think prime shields beats jon fitch but fitch got him when they fought even paul harris id think Jake should be able to hold him down
 
tekkenfan said:
cooper

the 3rd lol jake actually beat up his dad back n 2004 in japan and he came back to get revenge but isnt just him jakes struggled quite a bit since 2015 i think prime shields beats jon fitch but fitch got him when they fought even paul harris id think Jake should be able to hold him down
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1 of the best welterweights of the modern era despite his terrible striking

I'll never forget his comeback domination against Dan Henderson either.
 
tekkenfan said:
cooper

the 3rd lol jake actually beat up his dad back n 2004 in japan and he came back to get revenge but isnt just him jakes struggled quite a bit since 2015 i think prime shields beats jon fitch but fitch got him when they fought even paul harris id think Jake should be able to hold him down
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He never should've lost to Fitch, that defeat really bugs me
 
Double Dragon said:
He never should've lost to Fitch, that defeat really bugs me
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That fight was weird since it seems like Shields didn't even try to contest Fitch in a battle for takedowns, he just pulled guard right away.

And of course, if you give Fitch what he wants (split leg ride, also known as 'full guard'), he's going to win.

Scenarios like that, It's exactly the sort of thing i mean when i talk about, inflicting mental defeat on yourself before the cage door even closes.
 
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