Kovalev vs. Ward

[rmongler]

I guess the nut shot really is the ultimate martial arts technique after all.

 

[Ilk]

I think we all saw in a couple of fights that Ward is a more complete fighter who can adapt and craft. While Kovalev looked limited against him. The same straights and angles, the same tempo. He pretty much had to circle to the right to get behind Ward when he saw Ward was slipping and ducking to the outside. Kovalev did not do it once. Perhaps Ward was going to defend it but he was not going to be able to clinch up and work from the inside. Such a waste really. Kovalev is such a good boxer and a very strong fighter, but his camp seems to be non existent against a boxer like Ward.

 

[DoctorTaco]

All I know is I had to eat crow and do 100 burpees because kov lost

 

[Uchi Mata]

Kovalev was in bad shape before that groin shot. It's not like he was defending well and then got clipped in the balls, a big part of the reason he took that shot was because he was already so bent over from the body assault that Ward couldn't even see exactly where he was hitting him. That fight was close to over one way or another.

The Heavy Hands guys mentioned that before the fight Kovalev talked a lot of shit but Ward basically just said 'I started breaking him in the late rounds of the first fight, I'm going to finish breaking him in this fight' and that seemed to be what happened. Lots of body work early, slowed Kov down, and then finished him the same way. It was a beautiful performance (to the extent that any Andre Ward fight is beautiful).

 

[DoctorTaco]

Kovalev was in bad shape before that groin shot. It's not like he was defending well and then got clipped in the balls, a big part of the reason he took that shot was because he was already so bent over from the body assault that Ward couldn't even see exactly where he was hitting him. That fight was close to over one way or another.

The Heavy Hands guys mentioned that before the fight Kovalev talked a lot of shit but Ward basically just said 'I started breaking him in the late rounds of the first fight, I'm going to finish breaking him in this fight' and that seemed to be what happened. Lots of body work early, slowed Kov down, and then finished him the same way. It was a beautiful performance (to the extent that any Andre Ward fight is beautiful).

body punches to break a mans spirit, especially one with a questionable gas tank. Simple plans work best sometimes

 

[rmongler]

Kovalev was in bad shape before that groin shot.

Sometimes i love to talk shit y'already know.

I recall before the first fight that Kov's camp said he would be ready for Ward's clinching cause he was practicing with greco guys and what not, and even after the fight i saw guys like Jack Slack commentating that Kovalev 'handled' Ward in the tie ups, but that was pretty much exactly the opposite impression i got watching the fight.

The same story would play itself out all night; Ward would duck into the clinch, get 1 or 2 hits in, Kovalev would tie him up, and the ref would break them apart. Rinse and repeat.

Kovalev was certainly slowing down and entangling ward, which seemed to be what he had focused on, but he didn't have any positive offense of his own in the equation. Ward would just keep racking up the small advantages, a few hits here and a few hits there, and they would go unanswered, so he kept going too it. A situation where you can avoid damage while still doing damage of your own, even the least amount of damage, is something a smart fighter will take any day of the week, and twice on sunday. That's an investment plan you can take to the bank.

I actually had Kov wining the first fight, due to the work he did at neutral ranges, but he had pretty much no answer for Ward on the inside.

In the second fight, Kovalev was a lot more active in the clinch, which showed that he recognized what cost him the last fight, but i again got an impression of aimless movement; he was spazing and hitting rabbit punches and the like to push up that compubox fightmetric score, but Ward was still landing the better shots.

Ultimately i got the feeling that Kovalev and his camp sensed that the clinch was something important to focus on, but they didn't really understand how.

 

[JayE]

Sometimes i love to talk shit y'already know.

I recall before the first fight that Kov's camp said he would be ready for Ward's clinching cause he was practicing with greco guys and what not, and even after the fight i saw guys like Jack Slack commentating that Kovalev 'handled' Ward in the tie ups, but that was pretty much exactly the opposite impression i got watching the fight.

The same story would play itself out all night; Ward would duck into the clinch, get 1 or 2 hits in, Kovalev would tie him up, and the ref would break them apart. Rinse and repeat.

Kovalev was certainly slowing down and entangling ward, which seemed to be what he had focused on, but he didn't have any positive offense of his own in the equation. Ward would just keep racking up the small advantages, a few hits here and a few hits there, and they would go unanswered, so he kept going too it. A situation where you can avoid damage while still doing damage of your own, even the least amount of damage, is something a smart fighter will take any day of the week, and twice on sunday. That's an investment plan you can take to the bank.

I actually had Kov wining the first fight, due to the work he did at neutral ranges, but he had pretty much no answer for Ward on the inside.

In the second fight, Kovalev was a lot more active in the clinch, which showed that he recognized what cost him the last fight, but i again got an impression of aimless movement; he was spazing and hitting rabbit punches and the like to push up that compubox fightmetric score, but Ward was still landing the better shots.

Ultimately i got the feeling that Kovalev and his camp sensed that the clinch was something important to focus on, but they didn't really understand how.

I think there is definitely some truth to this. Kovalev wasn't just content to tie Ward up on the inside as he continuously did in their first fight. Although he generated pretty much no offense of his own by doing this in their first fight, he did nullify a fair amount of Ward's offense (I'd actually argue that Kovalev could have been admonished by the referee more for his holding in the first fight, but that's another story). In the rematch he tried to actually fight with Ward on the inside. The issue here was that Kovalev doesn't really know how to fight on the inside, and like you said, his work was either clearly illegal (rabbit punches), or just wholly ineffective. The more significant fact was that Kovalev's choice to not constantly tie Ward up on the inside gave Ward a chance to do much more significant work, and that played a big role in Kovalev deteriorating at a much more rapid pace.

It's a bit of a shame that Kovalev either has an incompetent camp, or that he's unwilling to learn and work on his faults because he's extremely talented (arguably more naturally talented than Ward, just not as smart, versatile, or conditioned).

 

[MadSquabbles500]

I guess the nut shot really is the ultimate martial arts technique after all.

Is that a fact? I did not watch fight, but some people are saying it is borderline, but not actually a nut shot.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

Sometimes i love to talk shit y'already know.

I recall before the first fight that Kov's camp said he would be ready for Ward's clinching cause he was practicing with greco guys and what not, and even after the fight i saw guys like Jack Slack commentating that Kovalev 'handled' Ward in the tie ups, but that was pretty much exactly the opposite impression i got watching the fight.

The same story would play itself out all night; Ward would duck into the clinch, get 1 or 2 hits in, Kovalev would tie him up, and the ref would break them apart. Rinse and repeat.

Kovalev was certainly slowing down and entangling ward, which seemed to be what he had focused on, but he didn't have any positive offense of his own in the equation. Ward would just keep racking up the small advantages, a few hits here and a few hits there, and they would go unanswered, so he kept going too it. A situation where you can avoid damage while still doing damage of your own, even the least amount of damage, is something a smart fighter will take any day of the week, and twice on sunday. That's an investment plan you can take to the bank.

I actually had Kov wining the first fight, due to the work he did at neutral ranges, but he had pretty much no answer for Ward on the inside.

In the second fight, Kovalev was a lot more active in the clinch, which showed that he recognized what cost him the last fight, but i again got an impression of aimless movement; he was spazing and hitting rabbit punches and the like to push up that compubox fightmetric score, but Ward was still landing the better shots.

Ultimately i got the feeling that Kovalev and his camp sensed that the clinch was something important to focus on, but they didn't really understand how.

But I thought you are not allowed to punch if you clinch someone. You can punch your way out, but not actively seek clinch for purpose of fighting.

 

[rmongler]

Is that a fact? I did not watch fight, but some people are saying it is borderline, but not actually a nut shot.

A couple of those were definitely nut shots.

But I thought you are not allowed to punch if you clinch someone.

I mean, technically, depending on how you read the rules. But it's more or less unenforceable (and few good reasons too enforce it, either).

Basically, whatever you can get away with before the ref breaks you up, goes. And Ward is an expert in getting away with a lot of stuff.