Korean Fighter looking sharp at Sambo Worlds | Page 2

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by AndyMaBobs, Nov 11, 2017.

  1. MadSquabbles500 Gold Belt

    MadSquabbles500
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    possibly. I may be rare, but I am sure there is at least one school if not a handful. Or maybe he just travel to Russia alot and trains. Vladivostok is not that far from South Korea.
     
    #21
  2. Bluesbreaker Brown Belt

    Bluesbreaker
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    A friend of mine was in Korea recently, I forget which city. He posted a photo of a gym, which listed judo and sambo on the sign. That's all I can tell anyone.
     
    #22
  3. dsdoubled Purple Belt

    dsdoubled
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    Ive been interested in this for quite a while. Sambo (or sombo as it was referred to) was housed by FILA until I believe the mid to late 80s, the AAU was before or after FILA, and then the whole alphabet soup of sombo sanctioning bodies began. Its interesting that the USA has had only 2 world champs in sombo. Greg Gibson who was just a beast of a wrestler, DI All American, Olympic and world medalist in freestyle and Greco. The other was a DII wrestler named Narin Viravong who moved to the USA from Laos in the 80s. Ive heard guys like les Gutches, the Schultz bros, Mark Kerr, and a bunch of other wrestlers also dabbled in Sombo. I love the crossing over of grappling arts.
     
    #23
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  4. dsdoubled Purple Belt

    dsdoubled
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    I am surprised we don't see more Japanese, Chinese, thai, southeast Asian competitors in sambo. You would think people that compete in San shou/san da, shootboxing, silat, and even muay thai would love to compete in a similar but less restrictive rule set.
     
    #24
  5. AndyMaBobs Purple Belt

    AndyMaBobs
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    I know the powers that be in judo aren't foo fond of their judokas taking part in sports that aren't judo - so id don't know if thats related at all
     
    #25
  6. Uchi Mata Gold Belt

    Uchi Mata
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    American folk is no different than sumo, chidaoba, or Irish collar and elbow. It's a national style, UWW only recognizes international styles as far as I know. Does any other country in the world contest American folkstyle using the same ruleset?
     
    #26
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  7. Uchi Mata Gold Belt

    Uchi Mata
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    You used to see a lot of Japanese Judoka compete in Sambo, though only sport not combat. A few of them even won world titles, such as Kashiwazaki and Sato.
     
    #27
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  8. dsdoubled Purple Belt

    dsdoubled
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    Sure I get that but there are SOOOOOOOO many world class judokas out there. If you look at the medalists from the sambo world championships from the last 20 years or so there are quite a few guys in there who have repped their country in judo at the worlds and Olympics. A few wrestlers as well. Heres a few if your interested:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natik_Bagirov

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georgi_Georgiev_(judoka)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yury_Rybak

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beslan_Mudranov

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andrei_Kazusenok

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yauhen_Biadulin

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ivan_Iliev

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Khashbaataryn_Tsagaanbaatar

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dashdavaagiin_Amartüvshin

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_Ivanov

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levan_Zhorzholiani

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vassilios_Iliadis

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otgonbaataryn_Uuganbaatar

    All these guys Olympians, world champs, world medalists, and even the Russian who just won gold in Rio. Pretty cool how much crossover there is overall. A lot of these guys have MMA experience too.
     
    #28
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  9. dsdoubled Purple Belt

    dsdoubled
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    I believe only Canada has wrestlers who compete in/under American folkstyle wrestling rules, and that's bc most of their College wrestling teams are actually a part of the NAIA. However, Im pretty sure Canada also has college wrestling teams that compete under freestyle as well. Ive never been certain about that second part though. As far as I know there are only a handful of countries in the world that have college wrestling as an organized sport. Obviously the USA, Japan, Canada, and I think South Korea and Brazil. But all but the USA and Canada uses freestyle in college.
    Something else that I find pretty cool, sometimes these national or folk style wrestling scenes produce quality wrestlers. I believe many of the judo, freestyle, and Greco guys from South Korea, Scandinavia, West Africa, and Mongolia have a whole lot of experience in their Countries native form of wrestling.
     
    #29
  10. Uchi Mata Gold Belt

    Uchi Mata
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    I think almost all Mongolian Judoka (who are very well regarded on the world level) have experience in their native jacket wrestling style. Used to be the same with the Georgians, not sure if that's still true. Most Indian wrestlers have trained their national style as I think have most Turks.
     
    #30
  11. Daniel Fox Green Belt

    Daniel Fox
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    Japan is pretty decent in sport Sambo. I have no idea if there are Japanese Competitors in Combat Sambo. But for many years Japan has had a strong Sambo team. I attribute this to the similarities of Judo, it is a country with decent wrestlers, and a famous Samboist Victor Koga was half Japanese, half Russian. I am far from an expert on submission grappling, but I always thought Japanese style of submission grappling was more influenced by Sambo than Catch Wrestling.
    The Victor Nage (Victors roll) is a famous Japanese roll into a leg lock, it is named after Victor Koga who used to do the move a lot.
     
    #31
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  12. Daniel Fox Green Belt

    Daniel Fox
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    Canada wrestled Folkstyle up until 1972, after that University Wrestling is Freestyle. I went to a Canadian University from 1988-1992 and it was all Freestyle. Canadian Wrestling does not have Dual Meets like the US, every college has a tournament, and you compete in the various University Tournaments.
     
    #32
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  13. Human Bass Black Belt

    Human Bass
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    The korean had a strong shotokan vibe.
     
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  14. dsdoubled Purple Belt

    dsdoubled
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    Totally makes sense with Japan having such good judo and honestly their freestyle wrestling is better than decent. As for the Japanese style of submission grappling, Im not sure if I would say that it is more like sambo than catch. I think of the grappling Ive seen from guys like Caol Uno, Sakuraba, Mishima, Iminari, Ishida, etc. As far as I can tell they use takedowns more consistent with freestyle wrestling than sambo, ie, more singles, doubles, and trips then throws and upper body stuff, and catch is closely related to amateur wrestling. And I watched a lot of Rumina Sato's combat wrestling matches and that dude was pulling off ankle picks and high crotch lifts, he looked like a wrestler who knew submissions. But then a lot of these guys use leg locks and they work quickly on the mat going from sub to sub and constantly attacking so I guess that could be a sambo influence too. I think the conclusion to be made is that in less restrictive rule sets like MMA and submission grappling its not always easy to determine the influence of the grappler youre watching. Especially when catch, sambo, judo, wrestling, etc are all so closely related.
     
    #34
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2017 at 3:58 PM
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  15. dsdoubled Purple Belt

    dsdoubled
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    Great info. The reason I thought many Canadian University wrestling teams competed in the NAIA is because so many of Canada's best wrestlers went to Simon Frasser and I believe they are the only Canadian team who competes in the American collegiate system. Is this correct as far as you know?
     
    #35
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  16. Daniel Fox Green Belt

    Daniel Fox
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    I believe you are right, Simon Fraser does compete in American tournaments. Canadian Women's teams will compete against US Women's teams, but as you probably know Women's Collegiate teams in the United States are Freestyle.
     
    #36
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  17. dsdoubled Purple Belt

    dsdoubled
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    I actually did not know that about womens collegiate in the US. They should just switch mens to freestyle as well. I don t see the point in wrestling a totally different rule set then the Olympic version of the sport.
     
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  18. Daniel Fox Green Belt

    Daniel Fox
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    I agree with 100% of what you are saying, but I was talking about the submission aspect of the grappling, not the take downs. I actually was coached by Masaaki Hatta. To me the Japanese style of Freestyle wrestling is very American influenced. Masaaki's ( you may have heard of his brother too, Tadaaki Hatta) father toured the United States with a Japanese Judo team, they had a match with the Oklahoma State Wrestling team, and were beaten ( to be fair the wrestlers were not wearing gis). The elder Hatta stayed in Oklahoma to learn wrestling, and brought it back to Japan. This is also why there was a number of Japanese wrestlers wrestling for Oklahoma State during the 1960's (Masaaki. Tadaaki, Yojiro Uetake). To me the Japanese style is more of a shooting style (American) compared to a European influenced style that is more upright. I attribute this to the Oklahoma connection.
     
    #38
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  19. Daniel Fox Green Belt

    Daniel Fox
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    I agree to an extent, I think Americans would be much more competitive with the Russians if American kids wrestled Freestyle their whole lives as opposed to focusing on it when they are 22/23 years old. One thing about Folkstyle, is it gives the wrestler a tremendous ability to ride and put pressure on their opponent. This transfers well into MMA.
     
    #39
  20. dsdoubled Purple Belt

    dsdoubled
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    I cant argue with that, for MMA purposes and for picking up on Bjj and submission grappling, folkstyle is great. But I think the strength and muscle groups a freestyler would develop when trying to turn their opponent on the mat with a gut wrench or something would also translate nicely to ground control and ground work in MMA. We just have not seen too many fighters in MMA with strictly a freestyle background and the ones that do come from strictly freestyle either don't work the top game much or have been pretty friggin good on top. Because as Im sure you know, all of the Americans with legit freestyle chops who have entered MMA have also had a ton of folkstyle experience. So for pure freestyle guys we would have to look at the women like Sara McMann and Miesha Tate (although Ive heard she wrestled on the boys team) and then guys like Yoel Romero. They are the only pure freestylers I can think of. Hennry Cejudo is close but he wrestled folkstyle in high School, Alexis vila doesn't count either because he coached in the NCAA at Michigan State and also won a bunch of open folkstyle tournaments, including midlands. Guys like Babalu would have only freestyle experience but he also trained a ton in Bjj so he developed his ground control there. Bilyal makhov would have been a good study but he seems to have backed out of his MMA plans. Even guys like Arjan Bhullar would count as purely freestyle bc he wrestled for Simon Frasser. There are just so very few examples of a pure freestyle wrestler in MMA.
     
    #40
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