KO power.

Discussion in 'Strength & Conditioning Discussion' started by Psalm144 1, Nov 29, 2005.

  1. Psalm144 1 White Belt

    Psalm144 1
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    CT
    5'9" 145. how do i get KO power in my punches.? i know alot of it has to do with technique, but is their a way to get the power in a workout? do i have to get bigger to get more power? i wouldn't mind getting bigger but if i can get the power of some one who weighs 185 and still weigh 145 that would be fine too.
     
    #1
  2. Barut Banned

    Barut
    Joined:
    Dec 2, 2004
    Messages:
    6,325
    Likes Received:
    0
    I'm sure you already have the KO power of some 185 lb'ers, but I don't think that's what you meant. Work on your technique and lift. Emphasize heavy compound movements to get stronger. Concentrate on back, trunk, and legs to get KO power in your hands. What does your current routine look like. What do you train in?
     
    #2
  3. Psalm144 1 White Belt

    Psalm144 1
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2005
    Messages:
    74
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    CT
    I train in MMA, at an MMA school. and BJJ seperatley also. i have a great plyometric workout..it's actually randy cotures workout. my weightlifting takes a back seat to everthing else. but after seeing a kid who weighs 135 bench more than me I decided I should get a little stronger.
     
    #3
  4. Urban Savage Mystic

    Urban
    Joined:
    May 16, 2003
    Messages:
    16,573
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Sippin on sunshine
    bench press has very little to do with striking power. IMO, deadlift, deadlift, deadlift. Just read the stickies and get a real weight routine. Include squats, deads, overhead presses, dips, core movements and assistance.

    Really I shouldn't even tell you this. you need to work on your technique first and foremost. Spend twice as much time working your striking technique as you do anything else (cardio, lifting, jerking off, etc.).
     
    #4
  5. deadpool H***an Chop!!

    deadpool
    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2002
    Messages:
    2,120
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Bay Area

    I think jerking off might have some carry over in being able to have some power in the strike- either that or just be better at making yourself cum.

    On the real, plyos are a good way to transfer the weights into power in your strikes and takedowns.
     
    #5
  6. rajuman Guest

    rajuman
    light weights, massive reps..
     
    #6
  7. krellik Gimli son of Cisco

    krellik
    Joined:
    Nov 11, 2003
    Messages:
    4,597
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Sweden (Kalmar)
    Explain yourself!
     
    #7
  8. HeyHEys Purple Belt

    HeyHEys
    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2005
    Messages:
    1,683
    Likes Received:
    0
    it's all in the hips
     
    #8
  9. Wrecking Ball Orange Belt

    Wrecking Ball
    Joined:
    May 1, 2004
    Messages:
    305
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    The Valley
    Technique, increase in strength, increase in speed. What good is it if you have a haymaker KO, but the whole world knows its coming. I found the more I hit a heavy bag, the harder I punch. Deadlifts and core exercises man, also strengthen up your wrists and grip. Its alot easier to KO someone if you have a sledgehammer for a fist.
     
    #9
  10. Ian Coe Professional Fighter

    Ian Coe
    Joined:
    May 25, 2003
    Messages:
    11,240
    Likes Received:
    3
    Location:
    UK
    please go to OT and post naked pictures of anyone
     
    #10
  11. marine Yellow Belt

    marine
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2005
    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Huntsvegas
    Here's something I stumbled across. Interesting for people not knowing much about power I thought.


    The Science of Punching Power -- By Richard Chiang

    I'd like to take a little break from "nutrition" for this article to discuss a more general topic because it's a topic I've always been interested in and because clarifying general concepts can help boxers focus the goals of their nutrition/exercise programs. The concept of "punching power" is frequently misunderstood and is actually more complicated than a lot of people think. In this article, I'll address some of the key points involved in the physics of punching power and the relevance of these points in focusing the goals of your training program.
    A lot of fighters, especially heavyweights, have told to me that they'd like to bulk up to improve power and thus began to eat more and do a lot of heavy weightlifting. Yet, a great number of fighters who do this don't seem to improve their punching power significantly but end up being slower and develop sloppy punching technique. I can think of a number of examples of this occurrence among professional boxers. (I won't mention their names so as not to embarrass anyone- but you can probably think of examples of such fighters who fit this description.)

    This is precisely why many of the old time trainers would forbid their fighters from lifting weights. In fact, during one of the fights on the undercard of the Lennox Lewis/Hasim Rahman rematch, George Foreman remarked that one of the fighters might have bulked up to increase power but did so at the expense of being able to produce the "snap" needed to generate power in his punches. George suggested that this fighter might have had more power had he been ten pounds lighter.

    On the other hand, Bobby Czyz, a commentator for Showtime Championship Boxing, often remarks that power is the product of the mass of the fighter and the fighter's speed. So David Tua hits hard because he's a good-sized heavyweight AND because he's fairly quick. Well Bobby gave the simplified explanation because boxing fans don't tune in to championship boxing to hear a physics lecture! I'll spare you a lot of the science talk as well but really quickly, I'd like to point out that power is not actually the product of mass and velocity (which is really momentum) but is the product of FORCE and velocity.

    It stands to reason that a fighter who has a lot of muscle mass can produce more force than a fighter with less muscle mass so heavyweights obviously can punch much harder than welterweights. But this observation doesn't always hold true for fighters within a more narrow weight range. For instance, there are a lot of 220-pound heavyweights who can punch much harder than some of the 250-pound heavyweights! Of course, part of this can be attributed to the fact that some of the larger heavyweights carry more body fat. But even if the fighters have a similar body fat percentage, sometimes the smaller fighter still punches harder.

    Okay, so nothing I've said so far is exactly a stunning revelation. Most of us are aware that some of history's hardest punchers were guys who were not extremely muscular but were often the thin, lanky types. Some of these fighters include Jimmy Wilde, Sandy Saddler, Bob Foster, Thomas Hearns, and Felix Trinidad. Part of this has to do with muscle fiber arrangement, which I won't spend too much time discussing because there really isn't a lot a fighter can do to enhance this particular aspect of power. (It's something you're pretty much born with). It also has something to do with muscle fiber recruitment, which I discuss a bit later in this article.

    But some of the boxing coaches out there might point out that just because one fighter can bench press more weight (and thus can generate more force), doesn't mean that he can punch harder than another fighter who is unable to lift as much weight. Indeed, it should be noted that the strength used in one type of movement doesn't apply 100% to another type of movement. For instance, just because you can squat a heavy weight, doesn't mean you can jump high. Not only are different muscles emphasized in different movements, but also different parts of the muscles are emphasized AND the muscles are recruited in a different manner by the nerves. So just because you have the strength to perform one type of exercise movement doesn't mean you are guaranteed of being able to perform another type of exercise movement effectively even if it involves a similar set of muscles.

    Going back to Bobby Czyz's explanation, punching power is heavily dependent on punching speed. Most of you know have heard the expression "speed is power". A bullet by itself can do little damage, but becomes a weapon when propelled at a high velocity. Now here's the key point- when talking about PEAK power a muscle can generate, it appears that FORCE only contributes to about a third of total power output with velocity contributing to two thirds of power output. So what this means to boxers is that they should not sacrifice speed when bulking up and weight training.

    Muscle velocity is described as the rate at which muscle fibers can shorten, which depends on the range the muscle fibers can shorten. So to maintain speed, a fighter needs to maintain flexibility. This can be achieved by regular stretching/flexibility training. If a fighter elects to lift weights, her or she should lift with proper form to exercise the muscle over its full range of motion. In addition, all major muscle groups should be targeted if a fighter lifts weights to prevent an imbalance in strength, which can lead to a decrease in mobility and range of motion. (For instance, if you exercise your chest and triceps, you should balance this training by exercising the back and biceps.)

    I should point out that muscle strength plays many roles regarding athletic performance besides being a factor in power output. If done properly, strength training can help improve balance, coordination, and mobility and can help a fighter block punches and (regarding the pros) out muscle his/her opponents when clinching.

    Some fighters have been quite successful in using a weight lifting program to enhance their boxing skills. Evander Holyfield comes to mind as one such fighter who engaged in a rigorous weight lifting program to match the natural size advantage that most heavyweights had on him. The key is to maintain speed, mobility, and proper punching technique while increasing muscle strength and size.

    I mentioned earlier that muscle fiber recruitment by the nerves is a major factor in the ability of a muscle to generate power. Basically, this involves the ability of the nerves to "fire" up as many muscle fibers at once as possible. Obviously, this can be developed through training e.g. hitting the heavy bag, sparring, etc. Much of this involves "programming" the proper neural recruitment patterns into the muscles so as many muscle fibers as possible can be coordinated to produce a smooth, effective movement. Compare a beginning weightlifter with an experienced weightlifter, and you'd probably observe that the lifting technique of the inexperienced lifter is much "choppier" than the technique of the experienced lifter.

    Yet at some point, an individual reaches a limit and is unable to improve neural recruitment ability. It is believed that genetics plays a major role in this. However, many exercise physiologists and coaches nowadays believe that individuals may be able to improve beyond what was previously thought to be their natural limitation through such techniques as plyometrics. Plyometrics. is heavily used in such sports as certain track and field events. Many boxers are now experimenting with these types of exercises, but these exercises should be used with caution. Plyometrics. exercises may not feel particularly stressful while they are actually performed but can rapidly stress the muscles and lead to injury and over training if not done correctly.

    So far I have been discussing power in the pure sense. This is an abstract concept and several more factors are involved in the ability to produce a hard punch. People often ask me questions like- "Who was the better puncher, Mike Tyson in his prime or George Foreman?" or "Who hit harder- Joe Louis or Max Baer?" Again, to even begin analyzing those comparisons, one has to establish one's definition of "power".

    I recently saw a toughman competition in which these two big guys were just flailing away with punches at each other virtually nonstop but couldn't hurt one another throughout the entire fight! Without proper technique, all the power in the world won't do any good if it doesn't reach its target with precision and accuracy. "Power" as defined in boxing isn't simply the ability to generate a lot of muscular force at a high velocity, but as the amount of damage that a boxer can produce with a given punch. This is based on several additional factors including accuracy, timing, and even defense. (For instance, it's hard to get set to throw a hard punch if your opponent's jabs are constantly knocking you off balance!)

    I realize that this is boxing 101 (really basic stuff!) for most of my readers since a lot of you guys are experienced boxers or coaches. But for the benefit of those who may be just starting out, you should be aware that a lot of people who learn to box for the first time often complain that they can't produce much power the way boxing coaches make them punch. That's because boxers are trained to land punches accurately and without compromising defense. As any boxing coach can tell you, just about anyone can look and sound powerful when hitting the heavy bag, but a good puncher is someone who can apply that power in a fight!

    Finally, the last factor I want to discuss is muscle endurance and the availability of "fuel" for the muscles throughout competition. If you only had to throw one punch, then you wouldn't have to worry about eating enough carbohydrates and drinking enough water to make sure your muscles can maintain a high power output for several rounds. But clearly, power output can drop dramatically if the body's glycogen supply is diminished or if the fighter becomes dehydrated. Therefore, it's important to eat enough carbohydrates and drink enough fluids during the days and hours leading up to competition.

    Also, creatine depletion in the muscles can result in decreased power, which is why some fighters elect to use creatine supplements to help them maintain a high power output during a fight. The efficacy of this practice is debatable, and I discuss this topic in my most frequently asked questions list, which you can find in the articles archives. In addition, lactic acid accumulation in the muscles can also cause the fighter to lose power especially when competing in twelve round bouts.

    This article was a little bit of a treat me for because being an avid boxing fan and analyst, I wanted the opportunity to address some of the fundamental concepts of boxing. In practice, the concepts presented in this article boil down to the fact that bulking up and increasing muscle size can be counterproductive if not done correctly and for the right reasons. However, if speed, flexibility, mobility and technique can be maintained, then increases in muscle size and strength can be very beneficial for some fighters.

    so from what i read is that if you train on your technique, hit the bag alot, and have good flexibility you should be straight.

    look at bruce lee, and oscar delahoya(i know its spelled wrong please give me the right spelling) had great punching power, they had great technique.
     
    #11
  12. Jay M. Yellow Belt

    Jay M.
    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2005
    Messages:
    239
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    In the OT until I get my orange belt and then I'll
    Shit, I needed to take two breaks before I could finish that!
     
    #12
  13. Wrecking Ball Orange Belt

    Wrecking Ball
    Joined:
    May 1, 2004
    Messages:
    305
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    The Valley
    Seriously do not read that whole article! Marine summed it up real good, focus on technique, strength training is secondary.
     
    #13
  14. Madmick Stop Spoiling My TV Life (it's the one I like)

    Madmick
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    25,629
    Likes Received:
    4,385
    Location:
    NorCal
    Until a fucking alligator bites your hand off!
     
    #14
  15. yomon Green Belt

    yomon
    Joined:
    Apr 21, 2004
    Messages:
    1,361
    Likes Received:
    0
    i remember reading this a long time ago, but still good read. can never be said enough.
     
    #15
  16. Madmick Stop Spoiling My TV Life (it's the one I like)

    Madmick
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    25,629
    Likes Received:
    4,385
    Location:
    NorCal
    Could someone explicate this?

    I don't understand what he's trying to say. Is he saying that speed is responsible for 2/3 of power output or is he saying that when peak power output is attained- in that instant- speed accounts for 2/3 of that output? If the latter is the case, how relevant is that? So let's assume speed is dominant during the peak power output of a punch; would that peak power have been possible to attain at all if there wasn't that strength for starting power?

    It was my understanding that strength is much more important than speed to total power output. Perhaps for peak power output, speed is the limiting factor, but for maximizing YOUR total power (regardless of who you are), the potential for an increase in power is greatest through an increase in strength. FT/ST Fiber composition is innate; research suggests even strength training can't significantly improve it. But everyone can improve max strength.

    So, regardless, my opinion is this. Don't fatigue yourself lifting at the expense of technique. Be the most technical puncher you can be. Also work to maintain what speed you have; be the fastest puncher you can be.

    But also be the strongest puncher you can be. I bet Benni could become a pretty ferocious puncher with just a few weeks or months of training.
     
    #16
  17. marine Yellow Belt

    marine
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2005
    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Huntsvegas
    so pretty much its just technique, technique, and technique, also if anybody watches dragon ball z,

    when Goku went to another super sayin level he was freaking huge and big and super strong but he slow and the smaller guy he was fighting was weaker but still kicked goku's butt because he was quicker., so if you don't have the speed your not going to afflict the KO power that you want.

    so what about those machinces that uses body weight i forgot the name of it but chuck norris endorses it, seems like a good think if your not trying to get bulked up.
     
    #17
  18. Madmick Stop Spoiling My TV Life (it's the one I like)

    Madmick
    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2005
    Messages:
    25,629
    Likes Received:
    4,385
    Location:
    NorCal
    How dare you invoke Walker to validate your point!

    No, but seriously, man, I asked you about the potential for total power and/or peak power in regards to max strength versus max speed, and you started talking about some super saiyen shit in Dragonball Z. Are you a politician?

    For future reference, if you can't answer a question...maybe you shouldn't.
     
    #18
  19. rickdog Purple Belt

    rickdog
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2003
    Messages:
    1,973
    Likes Received:
    0
    Jeezzz, don't go around being all pumped by that article telling your bigger friends that smaller guys are quicker and therefore you are going to kick their ass. Technique is great and necessary but so is strength. Don't sacrifice one for the other. Remember, in MMA hand striking is only one asset of the game.
     
    #19
  20. marine Yellow Belt

    marine
    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2005
    Messages:
    174
    Likes Received:
    0
    Location:
    Huntsvegas
    sorry about that i was really asking a question i just put that in their for some odd reason.
     
    #20

Share This Page

monitoring_string = "fd5733925866a04e50edd70f38dfaa35"
monitoring_string = "603ac9fff68f23709f2a42bf5e29272b"