Kimuras are back (in top level MMA)

22 pounds different if you want to be exact, and that's Kazushi at walking around weight.

Saku is a natural welterweight, and could make lightweight easily; Vitor is at least 1 or 2 weight classes above him.

(as an aside, he had no business fighting all the huge men pride put in front of him; that he actually had success is nothing short of amazing, but his career could have been so much longer and even more storied if either he or Pride itself had took care of him better. Sometimes you can be too game for your own good.)

Saku was a phenom
 


"My training partner is chosen in order by “jyanken” [a Japanese finger-flashing game of paper-scissors-stone] among the fighters who happen to be there at the time. I don’t have any special sparring partner. It is better to spar with various kinds of people, because every fighter has a unique style and personal strengths. If I spar with the same person all the time, I will become strong in his uniqueness, but not in others. I spar for about 90 minutes. Then I have lunch, and take a little break. I do weight-training for 20-30 minutes after that. Otherwise my weight will go down. And if there is a class for ordinary students in dojo, I join it. If not, I go back home and do the same routine as an ordinary salaried man, like watching TV while drinking beer or shochu and playing with my child. I shouldn’t drink alcohol, but I drink almost every day (laughing). I don’t care about diet so much."
 
What I really love with the kimura are the options you get from it. Sweep, pass, backtake, throw, submit, whatever. Grab it almost wherever you want and go. The kimura's got you covered. I've even started grabbing kimuras from bottom side. People quickly learn that the spin-around armbar counter is dead.

How do you counter that recounter? I love the kimura from under half and crossside, but when they go for this move, all I can do is let go... I don't loose position, but leting go it's not actually a counter...The answer on this video doesn't work for me...

 
What is it that makes it not work for you?

One thing I do is that I don't wait around. As soon as possible I dive my head under them while scooting my butt out and go to north south to either use their momentum (if they have started moving) to bridge them over or keep going to attack the back or the arm like Giles shows. I feel it is very important to take the initative.

Pretty close to what happens in these two videos:





I also go for the Tonnon backtake that is similar to the regular north south backtake.

Doesn't mean I always get what I want though. Just that I at most get neutralized and end up hanging out on the bottom a bit longer
 
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Guys that have long legs, flexible hips are made to do triangle chokes, Marcelo is not made to do triangles from the guard, for instance, he is made to play butterfly guard and put you in a marcelotine.
You juggle with the tools that Mother Nature gave to you.

I am a lanky guy but only about 150 lbs or 68 kg. So triangles work well for me...right up until I start facing 220 lbs guys with broad shoulders and thick backs. Then I have a lot of trouble securing the triangle position.

Marcelo's butterfly game is probably attribute-dependent and seems difficult for guys with my build, but his choke game works for me regardless of the opponent's size.
 
I am a lanky guy but only about 150 lbs or 68 kg. So triangles work well for me...right up until I start facing 220 lbs guys with broad shoulders and thick backs. Then I have a lot of trouble securing the triangle position.

Marcelo's butterfly game is probably attribute-dependent and seems difficult for guys with my build, but his choke game works for me regardless of the opponent's size.
Good for you, but you are still doing and trying to put people in triangles from the guard even if that doesn't always works against big guys.

You are not limiting yourself to no arm chokes, i hope.
 
Good for you, but you are still doing and trying to put people in triangles from the guard even if that doesn't always works against big guys.

You are not limiting yourself to no arm chokes, i hope.
Yes I limit myself to no-arm chokes.

As for triangles, I don't shoot them from the guard much amymore due to the reason above. In transitions I can sometimes hit them even against giants.

Generally I refuse to use a technique unless I can use it against skilled guys of any size.
 
Yes I limit myself to no-arm chokes.

As for triangles, I don't shoot them from the guard much amymore due to the reason above. In transitions I can sometimes hit them even against giants.

Generally I refuse to use a technique unless I can use it against skilled guys of any size.
That's the stupidiest mindset you could have.
If you don't even try to get good at a particular technique just because a preconcept, you are not getting any better at jiu jitsu.
 
That's the stupidiest mindset you could have.
If you don't even try to get good at a particular technique just because a preconcept, you are not getting any better at jiu jitsu.
So someone who dedicates their time to the techniques most suitable for them, while also become nore proficient at sweeps, guard passes, and control, isn't getting better at jiu jitsu if they are hitting darces and kimuras on bob sapp?

You seem offended that some people don't think your approach to grappling is universally the best approach for everyone
 
That's the stupidiest mindset you could have.
If you don't even try to get good at a particular technique just because a preconcept, you are not getting any better at jiu jitsu.

No is not, on your path to bb, your are going to be messing with many techniques, you should have a wide spectrum of moves, after a while, it's about making your game stronger....
 
So someone who dedicates their time to the techniques most suitable for them, while also become nore proficient at sweeps, guard passes, and control, isn't getting better at jiu jitsu if they are hitting darces and kimuras on bob sapp?

You seem offended that some people don't think your approach to grappling is universally the best approach for everyone
You got it wrong, i said the exact opposite, go read my posts.

I said that in my opinion one should exactly become proficient in techniques that are the most suitable for them, be open minded and not try to mimic mindlessly a famous competitor just because you think he is cool.

No is not, on your path to bb, your are going to be messing with many techniques, you should have a wide spectrum of moves, after a while, it's about making your game stronger....
And that's exactly what i said since the beginning, i find it strange that only now we agree with each other.
 
That's the stupidiest mindset you could have.
If you don't even try to get good at a particular technique just because a preconcept, you are not getting any better at jiu jitsu.
Not getting better at Jiu Jitsu...... excuse me. What the hell? First of all isn't the point of "pure" jiu-jitsu to be able to beat bigger opponents consistently? Second of all who are you to say that he's not getting better?
 
Not getting better at Jiu Jitsu...... excuse me. What the hell? First of all isn't the point of "pure" jiu-jitsu to be able to beat bigger opponents consistently? Second of all who are you to say that he's not getting better?
What is this, some kind of Marcelo Garcia circlejerk?

Marcelo is amazing, but until proven otherwise, there is only one guy that use Marcelo's game to the highest level, and that is Marcelo himself.
Even his students use a different game, Dillon Danis go for darces, triangles from the bottom and has a nasty arm-in guillotine.
That proves my point that everyone is built different and should use moves that suits him, and honestly even if i am willing to change my mind the arguments here are seriously lacking.

I have read multiple times on internet forums people, mostly white or blu belts, say "i don't do xxx move because is a strength move" or "i don't do kimuras because Marcelo doesn't do them", that's a wrong mindset, period.

The guy above said that even if triangles are moves that come easy to him he doesn't do them anymore because they doesn't work against guys 70 pounds bigger than him.
At this point he should take a gun to class because nothing is gonna work against a guy 70 pounds bigger, no kimuras, no triangles, no armbars, you are not going to choke him because you are not going to take his back, unless he has some serious athletic abilities (strength?) to be able to pull them off.
That's the reality of grappling.
 
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What is this, some kind of Marcelo Garcia circlejerk?

Marcelo is amazing, but until proven otherwise, there is only one guy that use Marcelo's game to the highest level, and that is Marcelo himself.
Even his students use a different game, Dillon Danis go for darces, triangles from the bottom and has a nasty arm-in guillotine.
That proves my point that everyone is built different and should use moves that suits him, and honestly even if i am willing to change my mind the arguments here are seriously lacking.

I have read multiple times on internet forums people, mostly white or blu belts, say "i don't do xxx move because is a strength move" or "i don't do kimuras because Marcelo doesn't do them", that's a wrong mindset, period.

The guy above said that even if triangles are moves that come easy to him he doesn't do them anymore because they doesn't work against guys 70 pounds bigger than him.
At this point he should take a gun to class because nothing is gonna work against a guy 70 pounds bigger, no kimuras, no triangles, no armbars, you are not going to choke him because you are not going to take his back, unless he has some serious athletic abilities (strength?) to be able to pull them off.
That's the reality of grappling.

It Seems the only one not getting is you. No one says you should not use moves that imply specific physical attributes, if you are a big dude, of course kimuras will be your thing, if you are a small dude, you are better off working stuff that suit your body type. Which is what Marcelo says... He doesn't use kimuras because he feels it wouldn't work FOR HIM vs bigger guys... He never said don't use kimuras even if you are a big guy because it requires some degree of strength...
 
It Seems the only one not getting is you. No one says you should not use moves that imply specific physical attributes, if you are a big dude, of course kimuras will be your thing, if you are a small dude, you are better off working stuff that suit your body type. Which is what Marcelo says... He doesn't use kimuras because he feels it wouldn't work FOR HIM vs bigger guys... He never said don't use kimuras even if you are a big guy because it requires some degree of strength...
Then we are on the same page, but how many times you saw those words being misrepresented?
Guys that say "i don't do that move because it's a strength move and not technical", i know that because i was one of them.
And waiguoren seems is one of them too, so there are still people who are not getting it, for sure.
 
Then we are on the same page, but how many times you saw those words being misrepresented?
Guys that say "i don't do that move because it's a strength move and not technical", i know that because i was one of them.
And waiguoren seems is one of them too, so there are still people who are not getting it, for sure.

thats the problem, you totally took what marcelo said out of context.

guys whos say that are problably not strong, or if they are big and strong they dont do it to smaller weaker people which is fine, absolutely nothing wrong to do a strenght based move to other people your own size (or in competition to who ever is infront of you)
 
The best moves against guys your own size are also the best moves against guys heavier than you.
 
The best moves against guys your own size are also the best moves against guys heavier than you.

wrong.

My best move is the triangle choke, I can triangle people left and right, from many positions and quite honestly, im quite good at it. I cant however triangle 280 pounds brock lesnar type of monsters, my legs arent long enough.

I can however Rnc all type of human beings, small my size or brock lesnar size.
 
wrong.

My best move is the triangle choke, I can triangle people left and right, from many positions and quite honestly, im quite good at it. I cant however triangle 280 pounds brock lesnar type of monsters, my legs arent long enough.

I can however Rnc all type of human beings, small my size or brock lesnar size.


Triangles arn't that common in mma, clearly they must not be all that great.
 
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