Kimuras are back (in top level MMA)

[Bubblun]

Put it this way, if you are Marcelo, there is no freaking way in hell you'll be able to kimura someone like let's say arlovski, not unless the person defends too late, which will rarely happen while facing another elite grappler.

He choked AA like 5 times or so...

Yeah, but if you say that kimuras are moves for big strong guys, then even triangles are moves for big strong guys, Marcelo with his short stubby legs can't triangle Arlovski.

That's a limit of Marcelo's game, or, actually, everyone that tries to mimic his game but has a different body type.
Kimuras work even for smaller guys, Caio Terra and the Mendes bros use the kimura.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Yeah, but if you say that kimuras are moves for big strong guys, then even triangles are moves for big strong guys, Marcelo with his short stubby legs can't triangle Arlovski.

That's a limit of Marcelo's game, or, actually, everyone that tries to mimic his game but has a different body type.
Kimuras work even for smaller guys, Caio Terra and the Mendes bros use the kimura.

Not the same, if you have long legs, you can triangle who ever you want, it's a choke not, you are using your legs vs his neck, you are not going arm vs arm, even if it's 2 v 1.

Caio and mendes use it all the time... when was the last time you saw either of them compite at an absolute division? When was the last time you saw either of them kimura an elite hw competitor with a kimura?

If you say, kimuras are a big strong man technique as triangles are a long leg man technique, you may have a point, if you have short legs, triangles are not going to be your thing, not that you can't pull it off, you just can't rely on them or build your game on it.

Marcelo just rather focus on techniques that will work on everyone, and clean chokes work on anyone.

 

[Bubblun]

I disagree... Marcelo focus on techniques that works for him and his build.

Everyone that tries to mimic Marcelo's game just because he said so, he is limiting himself.
I know that first hand, i tried to copy Marcelo for years, then i got away of my Marcelo's nutthugger phase and now i have a completely different game and kimuras are my favorite attacks.

Kimuras are as technical and as attribute dependent as every other technique, they are not Marcelo's thing though (no arm chokes are an exception, they works for everybody).

And by the way, you can even use kimuras purely as a control, there aren't grips nogi, but kimuras works like a charm to take the back, switch to armbars, inverted triangles and so on.

 

[Thaijitsu612]

I disagree... Marcelo focus on techniques that works for him and his build.

Everyone that tries to mimic Marcelo's game just because he said so, he is limiting himself.
I know that first hand, i tried to copy Marcelo for years, then i got away of my Marcelo's nutthugger phase and now i have a completely different game and kimuras are my favorite attacks.

Kimuras are as technical and as attribute dependent as every other technique, they are not Marcelo's thing though (no arm chokes are an exception, they works for everybody).

And by the way, you can even use kimuras purely as a control, there aren't grips nogi, but kimuras works like a charm to take the back, switch to armbars, inverted triangles and so on.

I believe Marcelo was simply stating that kimuras as a submission are difficult to pull off on a significantly stronger opponent. I love kimuras but that really isn't deniable. While some smaller guys have has success in their weightclass you aren't going to see theme beating the bigger guys in absolute via kimura.

Marcelo prefers to invest time on a style he can use against anyone and everyone because he would compete in absolute.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I disagree... Marcelo focus on techniques that works for him and his build.

Everyone that tries to mimic Marcelo's game just because he said so, he is limiting himself.
I know that first hand, i tried to copy Marcelo for years, then i got away of my Marcelo's nutthugger phase and now i have a completely different game and kimuras are my favorite attacks.

Kimuras are as technical and as attribute dependent as every other technique, they are not Marcelo's thing though (no arm chokes are an exception, they works for everybody).

And by the way, you can even use kimuras purely as a control, there aren't grips nogi, but kimuras works like a charm to take the back, switch to armbars, inverted triangles and so on.

no one is denying tyt kimuras are technical, but you are not going to kimura someone 50 pounds heavier than you who knows what he's doing you are just not going to.

I'm not saying Marcelos style will fit everyone, but it is undeniable that no arm in chokes are the most efficient subs in the sport, and Marcelo happens to revolve around that game, ans he explains why.

By the way, I use the kimura grip as a way to control too, but I'm not hoping to kimura anyone from guard who's got a lot of weight on me...

 

[BJJ_Rage]

I believe Marcelo was simply stating that kimuras as a submission are difficult to pull off on a significantly stronger opponent. I love kimuras but that really isn't deniable. While some smaller guys have has success in their weightclass you aren't going to see theme beating the bigger guys in absolute via kimura.

Marcelo prefers to invest time on a style he can use against anyone and everyone because he would compete in absolute.

This.

 

[Coconutwater]

Salty might be a stretch, but it was out of character for Marcelo to dismiss(slightly)a very high percentage sub(for me anyway.)

A kimura thread without kpoz12?

I don't think he dismisses them but rather emphasizes non-strength submission...

 

[Uchi Mata]

Salty might be a stretch, but it was out of character for Marcelo to dismiss(slightly)a very high percentage sub(for me anyway.)

A kimura thread without kpoz12?

I would not say it was out of character. He's always been very clear that he thinks most subs other than pure neck chokes (no head and arm) require too much strength to do against a much larger person. I don't think that's a rip on the subs, it's a comment on the mechanics. It's true that it takes more strength relative to your opponent to break a grip and force the arm into position to finish a kimura than it does to RNC him. If your goal is to win absolute divisions as a MW (which was Marcelo's goal), you wouldn't build your game around kimuras, or head and arm chokes. Doesn't mean it isn't a great sub to beat people your own size, it clearly is.

 

[kpoz12]

I'm not hoping to kimura anyone from guard who's got a lot of weight on me...

 

[Bubblun]

no one is denying tyt kimuras are technical, but you are not going to kimura someone 50 pounds heavier than you who knows what he's doing you are just not going to.

I'm not saying Marcelos style will fit everyone, but it is undeniable that no arm in chokes are the most efficient subs in the sport, and Marcelo happens to revolve around that game, ans he explains why.

By the way, I use the kimura grip as a way to control too, but I'm not hoping to kimura anyone from guard who's got a lot of weight on me...

I believe Marcelo was simply stating that kimuras as a submission are difficult to pull off on a significantly stronger opponent. I love kimuras but that really isn't deniable. While some smaller guys have has success in their weightclass you aren't going to see theme beating the bigger guys in absolute via kimura.

Marcelo prefers to invest time on a style he can use against anyone and everyone because he would compete in absolute.

Well, believe it or not, the kimura and the RNC are the only attacks that i use to tap guys that are 50 plus lbs than me.
There is a guy in my gym so strong that he can americana me from bottom side control if i try to put him in an americana lock, i need to scream to not have my shoulder rip, but i tap him with kimuras every roll.

I don't believe the "Marcelo has selected the best techniques that works for everybody even against bigger opponents" story anymore.
You don't choose a technique, the technique choose you.
Or are you made to do it or you don't.
Guys that have long legs, flexible hips are made to do triangle chokes, Marcelo is not made to do triangles from the guard, for instance, he is made to play butterfly guard and put you in a marcelotine.
You juggle with the tools that Mother Nature gave to you.

 

[BJJ_Rage]

Well, believe it or not, the kimura and the RNC are the only attacks that i use to tap guys that are 50 plus lbs than me.
There is a guy in my gym so strong that he can americana me from bottom side control if i try to put him in an americana lock, i need to scream to not have my shoulder rip, but i tap him with kimuras every roll.

I don't believe the "Marcelo has selected the best techniques that works for everybody even against bigger opponents" story anymore.
You don't choose a technique, the technique choose you.
Or are you made to do it or you don't.
Guys that have long legs, flexible hips are made to do triangle chokes, Marcelo is not made to do triangles from the guard, for instance, he is made to play butterfly guard and put you in a marcelotine.
You juggle with the tools that Mother Nature gave to you.

Are you a world champ? Are you competing at worlds at what belt? Have you won a competitive tournament in the absolute division, if not, your talking out of your ass, im not insulting you, just that you are basing your opinion on your what seems to be, gym experience, which is not what marcelo opinions is for.

tapping someone who's 50 pounds heavier means very little, is that guy at your level? Do you think Marcelo talks about techniques not working on regular joes? His point of view is for elite clmpetiton, and unless you are one of the few elite guys, there is zero chances you are tapping a comptwnt grappler who's got 50 pounds on you with a kimura, not because the technique won't work once fully locked, but because it's too easy too defend before it gets there for someone much bigger and stronger

 

[Deleted member 405583]

Was hoping for more of a HL

 

[kpoz12]

Was hoping for more of a HL

Like this?

 

[Deleted member 405583]

Thank you

 

[Junior Skilo]

Marcelo may not use the Kimura himself... But he does teach the Kimura/Kimura Grip to his students

 

[Clinchster]

Love'em. Use'em all the time. Mostly as a threatening tool/ bait to move or set something up.....but I you'd be surprised on how big of a person you can land one on from north south....and with that said, I STILL agree with Marcelo saying it's more of a strong man move.

 

[Thaijitsu612]

Well, believe it or not, the kimura and the RNC are the only attacks that i use to tap guys that are 50 plus lbs than me.
There is a guy in my gym so strong that he can americana me from bottom side control if i try to put him in an americana lock, i need to scream to not have my shoulder rip, but i tap him with kimuras every roll.

I don't believe the "Marcelo has selected the best techniques that works for everybody even against bigger opponents" story anymore.
You don't choose a technique, the technique choose you.
Or are you made to do it or you don't.
Guys that have long legs, flexible hips are made to do triangle chokes, Marcelo is not made to do triangles from the guard, for instance, he is made to play butterfly guard and put you in a marcelotine.
You juggle with the tools that Mother Nature gave to you.

Whether or not you'r tapping freakishly strong dudes with kimuras everyday doesn't chaneed the fact that kimuras are one of the least efficient and difficult submissions to finish on a bigger stronger opponent.

Even if I hot flying gogoplatas every day but can't finish a rnc, rnc is still a higher percentage and more efficient sub

 

[rmongler]

marcelo and salty cant go in the same sentece.

he just feels like some very heavy and big people might be able to power out of the sub before its too late.

He also doesnt believe in arm in chokes, eventhough he could probably arm in choke 99% of the population.

There is no denial that no arm in chokes are way more efficient.

Depends on how you define efficient; it would be very efficient to choke someone by standing on their neck while pulling their arms, but how often would you ever end up in such a situation?

The DWL is highly available and accessible in pretty much every grappling situation there is, which makes it tactically efficient; you can spend more training time on it, improving entries, transitions, and finishes, making it more advantageous in an absolute sense, once all is said and done.

Observe zero weight cut Sakuraba wrangling beast mode Vitor Belfort.

 

[Bubblun]

Are you a world champ? Are you competing at worlds at what belt? Have you won a competitive tournament in the absolute division, if not, your talking out of your ass, im not insulting you, just that you are basing your opinion on your what seems to be, gym experience, which is not what marcelo opinions is for.

tapping someone who's 50 pounds heavier means very little, is that guy at your level? Do you think Marcelo talks about techniques not working on regular joes? His point of view is for elite clmpetiton, and unless you are one of the few elite guys, there is zero chances you are tapping a comptwnt grappler who's got 50 pounds on you with a kimura, not because the technique won't work once fully locked, but because it's too easy too defend before it gets there for someone much bigger and stronger

No, but i am not Marcelo either and honestly i like my chances to kimura a 260 lbs guy better than butterfly hook sweep him like Marcelo does, just as an example.
Do you think that sweeping huge guys like Marcelo did don't require physical attributes?

Here is Keenan using the kimura to put the bigger, stronger Dean Lister in an inverted triangle.



I remember Keenan saying somewhere "Not everybody play Marcelo's game" and he right, Marcelo is not the be all end all of jiu jitsu.
If you feel the kimura is your game go for it, even against guys 100 lbs heavier than you.

 

[Concrete Whale]

Going all in on kimuras against significantly heavier opponents is not without its dangers (timestamped).