kimura trap

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by tekkenfan, May 16, 2018.

  1. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Purple Belt

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    I didnt pay attention much to this when it first came out nobody i really trained with did it to me or had success so i didnt really bother

    by watching a few of david avellan vids iv seen some nice stuff also alot of dds guys have success with back takes off it im thinking of getting david avellans dvd set would that be a great intro into it?
     
  2. Cappy Goodtime

    Cappy Goodtime Hide yo wife. Hide yo neck.

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    You'll probably get spam e-mails from him for the rest of your life, but it might be worth it.
     
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  3. Mr. Sandman

    Mr. Sandman Blue Belt

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    Rocha's one is better.
     
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  4. trustdoesntrust

    trustdoesntrust Purple Belt

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    vagner rocha's 50/50 of the Arms is the definitive kimura trap dvd, in my opinion. covers all the standard kimura trap transitions, but also translates it to a complete guard passing system. also, you can find endless comp footage of vagner hitting these techniques at the highest levels
     
  5. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Purple Belt

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    i like things laid out in a series not just random moves here and there as long as it is structured
     
  6. Quebec Nick

    Quebec Nick Green Belt

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    I just spent half an hour rolling with a guy who's very heavy on the kimura trap. He's the only one at the club who does it consistently, so even if we know it's coming, we don't really have more experience than the last time he kicked our ass with it.

    I want my, '' avoid the kimura trap'' DVD

    Personally I don't really like that style, too much jumping around and risky positional hazards. Also, it seems that when you start that stuff it's like crack, you just want to do it all the time and you don't care about anything else.
     
  7. machomang

    machomang Orange Belt

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    what risky positions are you talking about? that grip is one of the most powerful grips in bjj.
     
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  8. Quebec Nick

    Quebec Nick Green Belt

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    When people get the grip from half (guard bottom) and they let people go to side to bridge and reverse them. When it's not done right, you can get armbarred.

    The jump from half guard (top) to get over the head and take the back, I just think that a lot of stuff can go wrong.

    But like I said, when the guy doing it is better than you, you look like an ass anyway
     
  9. kpoz12

    kpoz12 The No Life King Platinum Member

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    KIMURAS DON'T WORK.
     
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  10. trustdoesntrust

    trustdoesntrust Purple Belt

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    your teammate isn't very good at it. when i play the kimura game it's always based on sound positional pressure that leads to my opponent opening his elbow, after which I am usually on a path that ends with back, reverse triangle, or armbar. however, it does seem like a lot of people, perhaps your teammate included, just dive for low percentage rolling kimuras and/or get smashed trying to force them from bottom half.
     
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  11. EGDM

    EGDM Blue Belt

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    +1 for kimura-grip pressure passing. I'll take it from anywhere and drive through half guard, N/S, and then the back or topside armbars.
     
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  12. mataleaos

    mataleaos Purple Belt

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    The Vagner Rocha set is the #1 kimura trap set in my opinion.

    So I love the kimura rolls but I actually lost a match by doing this. It was in the absolutes against a bigger guy but still. He had a body lock and I got the kimura grip and a Sakuraba type takedown using the grip and instead of staying on top (north south) with the kimura grip, I rolled and baited him to turn in so I could get on the back and he ended up freeing his arm as he turned in. I didn't keep enough internal rotation on his shoulder. My technique could have been sharper but my point is that I agree with you that it's a risk. I don't think it's a huge risk but in hindsight I wish I hadn't taken it. I still love the rolling kimura and rolling front headlock (Rafa style) games though and ever since I learned them they have been a huge part of my game.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
  13. mataleaos

    mataleaos Purple Belt

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    Any time you do a rolling kimura or front headlock I think the reality is between the two camps that say it's either risky or not risky at all. This may be the most obvious statement ever but I think it's less risky than the people that think it is, but more risky than the die hard kimura/headlock trap people like to say it is. Any time you remove your feet from the ground and willingly go to your back there's a chance that something can go wrong. In my experience the best people at escaping these rolling kimura/headlocks when they are on bottom and someone rolls on them are people that are good at the techniques themselves. I used to be confused why Vagner Rocha called his kimra set the 50/50 of the arms. But the kimura sort of is a 50/50 position. Good kimura players can flip the position on you during or after your roll and either escape or end up with a kimura grip of their own.

    I also think more can go wrong the farther out people attempt these things. When you see Gordon Ryan or Andre Galvao do a kimura roll or when you see Rafa Mendes do a front headlock roll, they usually have a lot of pressure there. Then you see people without the same level of pressure attempting these rolls from a mile away and they wonder why they end up on bottom or lost in a scramble. I think people get enticed by how effective these techniques can be and so they start literally diving on them from far away without strong pressure. That can work at lower levels but it has diminishing returns as you roll with better people.
     
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  14. Quebec Nick

    Quebec Nick Green Belt

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    No, he does it fine, just like you said, he takes the back, reverse triangle, armbar, with no space for escaping. It's just that he was already a very good grappler before entering this game. I'm not at this level right now and whenever I try it or other less experienced guys tries it there's a lot of gaps and they sometimes end up in a worst position.

    Just for asking, you don't think that funky stuff is going on when you take the grip from the bottom. I just think that most of the sweeps / reversals you can do with the grip are risky and require a lot of timing.
     
  15. jimglynn

    jimglynn Orange Belt

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    Vagner's set is quite good.
     
  16. tekkenfan

    tekkenfan Purple Belt

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    rolling front headlock? you mean the one he does from top half guard by basically flipping over to upside down ns and anaconda with the leg?
     
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  17. mataleaos

    mataleaos Purple Belt

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    Yeah basically that. Rafa catches the front headlock from the top (half guard, RDLR, butterfly guard to name a few) and flips over to where he has the upside down front headlock position and from there he has a system (that he often teaches as an infinity drill) where he traps the arm and then chains back and forth between the anaconda, the darce, and the arm-in guillotine all without ever disconnecting his arms. Out of those 3 chokes he usually goes to the anaconda first but not always. Also sometimes he will use the position to go to the crucifix or get on top for the guard pass. Galvao, Calasans, and Frazatto use the position a lot too. It was one of the signature Atos techniques in the late 00's.
     
  18. trustdoesntrust

    trustdoesntrust Purple Belt

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    In my experience, it's not about timing but control. If you lock the kimura with your shoulder above his shoulder and really pin the wrist into opponent's ribs then that grip will take you a lot of places. IMO the kimura trap is just a thing everybody should learn whether you make it your game or not, since it opens up an important mid-body range of attacks between leglocks, chokes, and back takes, as well as being a constant trump card in underhook battles.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2018
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  19. mataleaos

    mataleaos Purple Belt

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    Yeah it's new school basics/fundamentals as far as I'm concerned. If you don't learn it and at least get familiar with it then you're going to get wrecked with it.
     
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  20. rmongler

    rmongler Brown Belt

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    In half guard, you can use the short double wrist lock for more positive control.




    Can also use it to transition into a keylock for even stronger control.




    And if you're having trouble getting the arm into position, you can wedge it under their back and rock it into place an inch at a time.

     
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