Kimono Info/ Review (Very long)

[StoicDude]

Guys, I typed this up some months ago and never got around to posting it. I ve seen most people on here have problems finding a proper fitting kimono or just have questions about weaves or different cuts of the gi.
I figured that this would help and shed some light. If you have suggestions, recommendations or questions, please let me know and I will add to this thread.
This will be a work in progress, which means I will try to post all of the pics today and periodically update this thread if I see something new.
I have reviewed almost all of the gis mentioned in here on separate threads so you can see my reviews if you do a search with my screen name.
Thanks for reading.

I thought that comparing all the kimonos I have would shed some light on the differences between weaves, the cut of the kimono, weight and reinforcements.

I have used 6 different kimonos over the past couple of years, starting with a Ki International Judo gi. I got a Sfjam Noris Judo gi top from a friend in Germany and have used that one for some time as well. The Sfjam was pretty torn up around the collar and the sleeves were too short when I got it. I ordered a Padilla and Sons Gold weave based on the chatter it received from Sherdog forums. The Shoyoroll kimono I saw at Sherdog, and people were speaking very highly of it, and considering that Shoyoroll only made small batches of their products I put in an order for that. I managed to get a really good deal from a training partner on an Atama Double Weave, so I picked that up. My uncle got me the Atama Mundial #7 for my birthday. I wanted the Keiko gi for a while and considering that the CBJJF made navy blue competition legal, this was the way to go.
I just realized that CBJJF and IBJJF are different so the navy blue might not be legal under IBJJF. I tried contacting IBJJF to get a clarification, but nobody answers on that site.

I also ordered an MKimonos blue hybrid weave and returned it because it was a bit baggy in the body but short in the sleeve length.

I tried a Kikskin Kompetitor in A3, and it fit me really well unwashed. Considering that most kimonos shrink, even with a cold wash and hang drying, it would have shrunk too much, so I returned it.

 

[StoicDude]

Weaves:
People have been talking about the difference of weaves for some time now and it seems that every manufacturer has their own take on it. I listed these in the order of lightest/ thinnest to heaviest/ thickest. I did this based on feel. I know that there are different ways to measure this (gram per square meters), but I don’t have the means to do that. I own/ have owned the following:
Pearl (Shoyoroll)
Single (Ki International)
Single/ Hybrid (Keiko Raca)
Hybrid (MKimonos, Atama Mundial #7)
Gold (Padilla and Sons, Kikskin)
Double (Atama, Sfjam Noris)

Shoyoroll Pearl Weave

Ki International Single Weave

Keiko Raca Limited Edition Kimono Hybrid Single Weave

MKimonos Hybrid Weave

Atama Mundial #7 Carioca Weave

Padilla and Sons Gold Weave

 

[StoicDude]

Sfjam Noris Double Weave

Atama Double Weave

Weave comparisons:
The pearl weave looks like a fluffier single weave. Where the single weave has two strands of loose cotton visible, the pearl weave seems to have those strands more compacted and they look like small cotton balls. I guess this is where the pearl name/ analogy comes from. The weave feels light and it is thinner than my other weaves.

The single weave is just a bit heavier than the pearl and it feels more dense.

The “hybrid” weaves are very interesting, because they try to combine the various aspects of the other weaves. The MKimono and Atama Mundial #7 weaves look identical to me. I would describe them as either a stiffer single or a very light double. The reason for calling it a stiffer single is that in comparison to a regular single, the strands on these two hybrids are much more formed. They are straight and don’t look loose. The comparison to a double is from them having two strands come through, but the double strands are much thicker.

The Keiko weave is different again and I would call this a 1.5 weave, because it has the look of a single (two loose strands), but instead of 2 strands it has 3.

Gold weave is completely different than the ones mentioned above and follows a different pattern. The gold weave looks like a bunch of small rectangles. From what I read, the gold weave was a compromise between the single and the double. It is supposed to be more durable than the single and breathe better and be lighter than the double. The gold weaves that I have come across are always very soft to the touch, but have a nice thickness and weight to them.

Double weaves are the thickest kimonos you will come across. They are really stiff and almost feel like cardboard, especially if you hang dry them. They are the thickest kimonos as well, so most people don’t like to train in them, especially during hot weather. I don’t mind thick kimonos and will train in my double during this summer and report back.
I trained in my double multiple times in 95 degree weather without AC and I was fine. I feels heavier but, to me, it didn’t feel any hotter.

Cuts:
I know that lately there has been a move toward the one piece top by the manufacturers. The thinking behind this is that a one piece top will be more tear resistant, because it is made out of one piece of fabric, compared to the traditional way (Judo gi) which has, usually, 3 pieces.
The 3 pieces are as follows: left side, right side (which are joined at the back) and a skirt. In Judo gis the back seam is covered by a piece of fabric and its stitched down (also called Setsugi stitching).

From what I have seen on forums, people, for some odd reason, want to buy kimonos without the seam on the back. There is not a specific reason why, most of the time, although some people with back problems have complained about the seam feeling uncomfortable.
I have two things to say about this issue. First, from personal experience, I own 3 kimonos with a seam on the back, I never noticed that seam. Second, you shouldn’t be flat on your back in jiu-jitsu anyways, so that seam should never present a problem.

The question is, why bother with the multi piece construction (seam) anyways? From my experience, and I will have pictures to prove it, the multi piece kimonos have more of a tailored fit. This is great for people that are skinny or athletic. Usually, the shoulders/ chest area is wider than the waist area, so a tailored kimono, one that gets smaller around the waist, is better, in my opinion.
I think that a multi piece kimono is a bit more work and material intensive, so most companies started making the single piece top.

My biggest problem with the single piece top is that it is a bit sloppy for my body type. The collar usually closes wherever the manufacturer decided to fold the cloth over. The illustration in the picture shows it better.
In this picture, MKimonos, you can see where the collar closes. It is right where the fabric was folded over.

Here is a picture of my Padilla and Sons Gold Weave

The Keiko, as you can see, is a bit weird, It is hard to lay flat on the floor with the side seams overlapping, because it doesn't really line up. The spots underneath the armpits are narrower (pinched) compared to the rest of the kimono.

This is the Atama Double Weave flat

 

[StoicDude]

Here is the Atama Mundial #7 flat. As you can see the sleeves are pointing a bit down. To line up the side slits is a bit hard, so that is the reason why it looks like this.

This usually means that the collar will close halfway between the lower part of the chest and the belly button, which makes it roomy in the shoulders. For somebody that has a big upper body, I think that this is great, but for skinny guys, it is just sloppy and leaves plenty of gi for your opponent to grab.
Atama and Keiko have found a way to get around the baggy/ sloppy feeling gi and I would say that these two companies fit my body type, which is tall and skinny, the best.
Atama does it by having the side splits/ v- seams a bit further back than most kimonos, so lining up the kimono on the floor is a bit harder. If you lay the kimono flat and overlap at the v-seams, the kimono will look tailored.
Keiko does it differently and their way fits me really well. Keiko folds the top 1/3 of the kimono (sleeves and chest area) at an angle and the kimono “pinches” in right underneath the armpits. This makes the area around the chest pretty tight and for my body shape, it fits well.

Cuts:
As mentioned in the introduction, the move is towards one piece tops. From my experience, most one piece tops end up being pretty roomy/ baggy around the body. This is great for thicker guys, but tall, skinny, people end up having a bunch of fabric around their body and to me it does not feel good.
I think that this is another subjective topic, so my bias is towards snugger, in my opinion, proper fitting tops.
Shoyoroll, Padilla and Sons and MKimonos, in my opinion, fit the stocky/ thick guys better.
Atama and Keiko fit me better, so I would say that they are more geared towards the skinny body type.
Kikskin’s Kompetitor model falls right in between, in my opinion, a bit more towards the skinny guy type.

I based my opinion here by analyzing the cut and putting on the kimono. The kimonos that felt baggy had the same characteristics. When I laid down the kimono on the floor and lined up the v-seams, the body would be straight and the collar would close at the point where the fabric was folded over.

Atama and Keiko are not straight when lined up at the v-seams. Atama’s double weave, when lined up is very tailored. The waist is much slimmer than the shoulders.
Atama’s Mundial #7, when lined up, pinches in the middle (almost resembling a Coke bottle shape)
Keiko is different all together and comes in underneath the armpits, so the area underneath the armpits is slimmer than the waist.

The kimono that seems to be the baggiest kimono on me, is my Shoyoroll (A3). This kimono has been in the dryer a couple of times, so it is fully shrunk.
The kimonos that fit me best are Atama, Mundial #7 (A2), Atama double weave (A3) and Keiko limited edition (A2).
Here are pictures of the Shoyoroll with the 3 kimonos on top of it.
Shoyoroll (A3) vs. Atama Mundial #7 (A2)

Shoyoroll (A3) vs. Atama double weave (A3)

Shoyoroll (A3) vs. Keiko Raca limited (A2)

 

[p_ahn]

another excellent post by StoicDude.

I'm surprised you purchased an A3 Shoyoroll instead of an A2.
no wonder it's huge on you!

I believe this thread should be stickied for reference purposes since so many people ask about the difference in weaves, cuts, and brands of BJJ kimonos

 

[jaystorm]

Awesome analysis and fantastic read!!! This was quite timely since I've been pulling whatever little hair I have out trying to decide which gi to get. I've been feeling the flavors of the month, like the mundials and the lightweights, but I know that fit for your body type is most important. I fall into that stocky (roomy cut) build. (6'0",260 lbs, 38" waist + 50' in suit jacket) I own a padilla g/w (A5) and I love it but its way too long.
I've read here that the Mundials are cut roomy; Shoyoroll, the latest models, are for athletic builds-lean bodies?; and I'll have look into Mkimonos. I've been considering the Teko gis since they come in half sizes.
Anyway thanks again for the excellent insight.

 

[StoicDude]

Reinforcements:
This is one area where I will have to be a bit more subjective. Usually, the thinking goes the more cloth and stitches the stronger the garment. I have no scientific way of proving this, so that is the reason why I am saying that it will be a bit more subjective.
I bring this issue up, because when I was buying motorcycle gear (leather suits, jackets, gloves, etc) there was a movement to less material and stitching, which would make a garment more tear resistant. For motorcyclist, the thinking was, the more seams the more areas you will have that can split open when you hit pavement and slide.
I won

 

[p_ahn]

I would love to test the breathability of the various tops, but I don

 

[StoicDude]

although knowing more about the breathability of tops would be awesome, information/review on the pants would be cool, too.
just a thought.
keep up the great work!

Atama ripstop pants. End of discussion!:icon_lol::icon_twis Just kidding.

I ll try to add some stuff about the pants. Shoyoroll and Atama rip stop are the ones that stand out. Padilla and Sons pants, that I got a year ago with my blue gold weave in A3, are still holding up well and are very comfortable. Great value.

Let me know what specifics you guys want on pants or other things and I will add it to this thread.

 

[p_ahn]

Atama ripstop pants. End of discussion!:icon_lol::icon_twis Just kidding.

I totally agree with you: Atama rip stop pants are the best pants for BJJ

 

[revad3]

hey stoic so what the gi that you most prefered out of the whole lot.

Mkimonos, not that gd?

 

[StoicDude]

I tried to make this post as objective as possible, so I didn't comment on what my favorite is. I just tried to point out the differences between kimonos.
As stated in this post, the kimonos that I like are the ones that fit me well. I like kimonos that don't feel baggy, so it is just my preference.
For my body type, I am 6 feet and weigh 162, I like my Atama Double Weave and Mundial #7 the best, closely followed by Keiko.
For the pants, I love my Mundial #7, followed by Padilla and Sons Pants, followed by Shoyorol.
MKimonos looked good, but didn't fit me well at all. I think that it is very good for the stocky and short guy.
If you want my opinion on a specific kimono, do a search with my name and you will find all the kimonos reviewed in detail (except for Keiko).
I will add to this thread if I get more kimonos.

 

[BJJ Coffee Drinker]

Has anyone tried the manto gi? I know it is a single and it looks cut good but I hear it the cut is not too great but no details. The manto review here didn't help much

 

[StoicDude]

Sorry, don't know much about it. I think that Gordinho reviewed a Manto gold weave and somebody else a single.
I ll review it if somebody is willing to send it. Haha

 

[BJJ Coffee Drinker]

if someone sent me a manto gi I would also be more than happy to give it a killer review with in depth pictures and measurements. I am thinking of getting the blue A1 manto and I was dead set on it but now I have been swayed away from it since I heard about the cut. I don't want to buy one, try it on, then it is too baggy then I just send it back which would be a waste of shipping money.

 

[StoicDude]

I don't want to buy one, try it on, then it is too baggy then I just send it back which would be a waste of shipping money.

This is the main reason why I wrote this post. I hate doing this. Some places, Budovideos for example, will charge a restocking fee as well, so you are out $20-$30 for nothing.
Having a standard set of measurements for a gi would help a lot of people when purchasing a gi.
Sleeve to sleeve across the back, collar to sleeve, length and width are the ones that would be a must. I think that Isami and Gorilla Gear have those measurements posted on their site, but nobody else.

 

[revad3]

hey stoic, sounds like mundial #7 is still one of the best from what u said/reviewed. Be it the top or pants. Top few of your choice it's seem. :icon_chee

My blue mundial 7 on the way, planning to purchase another white gi. Not really knows what to go for now. Alway hope to invest something worthwhile. Gi is very expensive to ship to asia:icon_sad:

 

[StoicDude]

I bought a small scale and a caliper tool to measure things more precisely. Here are some numbers for you guys.
Shoyoroll Batch#4 in A3:
Top: 2.54lbs
Pants: 1.544lbs
Total: 4.084lbs
Collar width 2 3/16"
Collar thickness: 5/16"

Padilla and Sons Gold Weave A3
Top: 3.050 lbs
Pants: 1.256lbs
Total: 4.306lbs
Collar width: 1 12/16"
Collar thickness: 5/16"

Atama Double Weave A3
Top: 3.502lbs
Pants: 1.408lbs
Total: 4.91lbs
Collar width 1 3/4"
Collar thickness: 3/8"

Atama Mundial #7 A2 top, A3 pants
Top: 2.386lbs
Pants: 1.082lbs
Total: 3.468lbs
Collar width 1 3/4"
Collar thickness: 5/16"

Keiko Limited A2
Top: 2.73lbs
Pants: 1.318lbs
Total: 4.048lbs
Collar width 1 13/16"
Collar thickness: 6/16"

 

[stile0]

Thanks for the review. Now I know why my Padilla gets all baggy on my shoulders. So if you had to choose between Atama and Keiko you would choose Atama?

 

[Disco Gooch**]

I am just about to buy my first Gi. I have to get it from the net so I won't get to try it on. I think I need to get a size A3.

I am approx 6'1 and 188 lbs, I am quite lean and long limbed will an A3 be the right size? The Gi I am looking at is a pre-shrunk Kimono.

Great post by the way TS.