Killer Cradles By Wade Schalles

[Daniel Fox]

Yep, I am indeed a Michigander. Behm used to always tell that Gable story but funnily enough, never mentioned Uetake. In fact, for a while I had no idea that they had even wrestled each other. I never had the honor of learning from Hatta, I believe he is somewhere around the Detroit area. His name comes up a lot and a friend of mine, Eric Moon, trained with him pretty extensively. He actually has a funny story about Hatta and the Smith family at some award ceremony.

Masaaki is a great man, for about 40 years he ran a club out of Hazel Park High School every Monday and Wednesday. Masaaki charged $10 a year, this was for instruction by an NCAA Champion for Oklahoma State, and a world Silver Medalist for Japan. You can not find people like that any more. I think I know Eric Moon, he started wrestling in his Junior Year of High School at Ferndale, he became a pretty good wrestler, I think he is coaching Southfield High School.

 

[Kforcer]

Masaaki is a great man, for about 40 years he ran a club out of Hazel Park High School every Monday and Wednesday. Masaaki charged $10 a year, this was for instruction by an NCAA Champion for Oklahoma State, and a world Silver Medalist for Japan. You can not find people like that any more. I think I know Eric Moon, he started wrestling in his Junior Year of High School at Ferndale, he became a pretty good wrestler, I think he is coaching Southfield High School.

Wow--that is really awesome. That's some true love for the sport and generosity of spirit. Yeah, Moon lived in Lansing for a bit and I got to knew him because I was one of the grappling coaches at a place where he'd drop in from time to time.

Makes me wish even more that I had studied under Hatta. I have one of his books, which is excellent and at the very least gives me some window into what I was missing.

 

[Daniel Fox]

Wow--that is really awesome. That's some true love for the sport and generosity of spirit. Yeah, Moon lived in Lansing for a bit and I got to knew him because I was one of the grappling coaches at a place where he'd drop in from time to time.

Makes me wish even more that I had studied under Hatta. I have one of his books, which is excellent and at the very least gives me some window into what I was missing.

Are you still in the Lansing area? I am guessing Hatta is probably 79 now, but it would not surprise me if he was still coaching, the club that he ran in Hazel Park was open to everyone high school kids and adults, maybe you could still train with him from time to time. Where did you used to train in Lansing?

 

[Daniel Fox]

Wow--that is really awesome. That's some true love for the sport and generosity of spirit. Yeah, Moon lived in Lansing for a bit and I got to knew him because I was one of the grappling coaches at a place where he'd drop in from time to time.

Makes me wish even more that I had studied under Hatta. I have one of his books, which is excellent and at the very least gives me some window into what I was missing.

I don't believe Masaaki wrote any books, I think his brother Tadaaki did, maybe you have his book. Tadaaki is in Ohio, he too was an NCAA Champion for Oklahoma State.

 

[Kforcer]

I don't believe Masaaki wrote any books, I think his brother Tadaaki did, maybe you have his book. Tadaaki is in Ohio, he too was an NCAA Champion for Oklahoma State.

I just checked and you are spot-on, it was Tadaaki's book that I have. If he is still teaching in any capacity, it'd definitely be great to be able to pick his brain or really even just meet him and shake his hand. The man is a legend. I've generally found that even just talking you can pick things up from guys like that, let alone if you actually get to ask them questions or what have you.

I've coached/taught at a few places in Lansing; Murcielago MMA, Camp Tisdale and another place with the cheesiest name in history, Spartan Xtreme MMA. Oh, and Crossfit Shift, after the guy who'd brought me into Murcielago moved on to do his own thing over there.

Did you know Dom O'Grady, by any chance? I know he was a good pal of Eric's. He wrestled and came up in the Detroit area, did pretty well in judo and won a pretty big tournament in Combat Sambo. Not sure what his wrestling credentials were like. We met at a tournament around 2007, the first grappling tournament I ever won, actually. Took place in the AWG gymnastics building but for some reason they had us compete on carpet instead any number of the available mats. The match before ours he pulled a really slick fireman's carry off on a guy who looked to have possibly 100 pounds on him (due to a low turn out they put all the weights together). They had a gold medal for best takedown and they gave it to him for that.

 

[Daniel Fox]

I just checked and you are spot-on, it was Tadaaki's book that I have. If he is still teaching in any capacity, it'd definitely be great to be able to pick his brain or really even just meet him and shake his hand. The man is a legend. I've generally found that even just talking you can pick things up from guys like that, let alone if you actually get to ask them questions or what have you.

I've coached/taught at a few places in Lansing; Murcielago MMA, Camp Tisdale and another place with the cheesiest name in history, Spartan Xtreme MMA. Oh, and Crossfit Shift, after the guy who'd brought me into Murcielago moved on to do his own thing over there.

Did you know Dom O'Grady, by any chance? I know he was a good pal of Eric's. He wrestled and came up in the Detroit area, did pretty well in judo and won a pretty big tournament in Combat Sambo. Not sure what his wrestling credentials were like. We met at a tournament around 2007, the first grappling tournament I ever won, actually. Took place in the AWG gymnastics building but for some reason they had us compete on carpet instead any number of the available mats. The match before ours he pulled a really slick fireman's carry off on a guy who looked to have possibly 100 pounds on him (due to a low turn out they put all the weights together). They had a gold medal for best takedown and they gave it to him for that.

Yes I knew who Dom was (he passed away right?), I believe he trained with the late Quincy Rice. I got my masters at Michigan State and I lived in Lansing from 1994-1996, I trained at the MSU Judo club for a bit, and I remember some of the guys from Loredo's used to come to the Judo club. Loredo's had some nice people, however they had total psychopaths training there as well, many of their guys would go to bars looking for fights, beating up untrained college students. One of the guys who went to the club was a young Matt Torres who was in high school at the time, the kid was a little punk, and assaulted one of the Judo Club Members (beat him up bad) during the practice. I was not the least bit surprised that he ran into trouble later in life.

I forgot to mention that the Don Behm match against Gable was in the 1966 Midlands, Gable met and beat Hatta in the finals of the tournament. Not many people know this but Hatta is 1-1 against Gable. Hatta is one of the few people who beat Gable in a freestyle match.

 

[jack36767]

It's pricey but well worth it.

http://www.championshipproductions....kedowns-starring-Wade-Schalles_WRD-03403.html

I know but I’m poor lol

 

[Daniel Fox]

I just checked and you are spot-on, it was Tadaaki's book that I have. If he is still teaching in any capacity, it'd definitely be great to be able to pick his brain or really even just meet him and shake his hand. The man is a legend. I've generally found that even just talking you can pick things up from guys like that, let alone if you actually get to ask them questions or what have you.

I've coached/taught at a few places in Lansing; Murcielago MMA, Camp Tisdale and another place with the cheesiest name in history, Spartan Xtreme MMA. Oh, and Crossfit Shift, after the guy who'd brought me into Murcielago moved on to do his own thing over there.

Did you know Dom O'Grady, by any chance? I know he was a good pal of Eric's. He wrestled and came up in the Detroit area, did pretty well in judo and won a pretty big tournament in Combat Sambo. Not sure what his wrestling credentials were like. We met at a tournament around 2007, the first grappling tournament I ever won, actually. Took place in the AWG gymnastics building but for some reason they had us compete on carpet instead any number of the available mats. The match before ours he pulled a really slick fireman's carry off on a guy who looked to have possibly 100 pounds on him (due to a low turn out they put all the weights together). They had a gold medal for best takedown and they gave it to him for that.

Talking about wrestlers from Michigan who went into MMA, I knew James Lee who used to wrestle at Eastern Michigan, he got into MMA and was fairly successful. I always wondered, is James Lee related to UFC's Kevin Lee? Booth went to, and wrestled at Southfield High School.

 

[Kforcer]

Yes I knew who Dom was (he passed away right?)I believe he trained with the late Quincy Rice. I got my masters at Michigan State and I lived in Lansing from 1994-1996, I trained at the MSU Judo club for a bit, and I remember some of the guys from Loredo's used to come to the Judo club. Loredo's had some nice people, however they had total psychopaths training there as well, many of their guys would go to bars looking for fights, beating up untrained college students. One of the guys who went to the club was a young Matt Torres who was in high school at the time, the kid was a little punk, and assaulted one of the Judo Club Members (beat him up bad) during the practice. I was not the least bit surprised that he ran into trouble later in life.

I forgot to mention that the Don Behm match against Gable was in the 1966 Midlands, Gable met and beat Hatta in the finals of the tournament. Not many people know this but Hatta is 1-1 against Gable. Hatta is one of the few people who beat Gable in a freestyle match.

Yep, Dom passed away a couple of years ago. Good guy. Before a match I had in a tournament, I overheard Dom say, "This should be good." At the time, it was just incredibly flattering for me to hear someone say that, especially because my opponent was pretty accomplished.

Oh yeah, Matt Torres.

Yep.

I never trained at Loredo's and in hindsight I'm very, very glad of that. I've heard some really, really bad things about that crowd. I had the displeasure of teaching at the same gym as Torres and it was everything you'd think it would be. I was really only there at all because I wanted access to mats that badly, but in hindsight I wish I had never involved myself.

That is a crazy run for a freshman Gable--Behm, then Hata. I had no idea that Hatta beat Gable though! 1-1 with Gable is pretty danged impressive. That whole run of Japanese Cowboys seemed to be pretty consistently, well, awesome. I wonder what happened to bring an end to that tradition.

 

[Kforcer]

BTW, do you know who Jason Holmes is? 1996 senior nationals high school champ at 152? He beat Matt Torres when Matt tried to make a comeback out of prison and from what I hear, beat him pretty solidly. It's funny, I think the promoters somehow thought a former high school national champ was going to be someone's tune-up. Jason wasn't even on the posters. Annoyingly, Sherdog doesn't have that fight on their fight finder.

 

[Daniel Fox]

Yep, Dom passed away a couple of years ago. Good guy. Before a match I had in a tournament, I overheard Dom say, "This should be good." At the time, it was just incredibly flattering for me to hear someone say that, especially because my opponent was pretty accomplished.

Oh yeah, Matt Torres.

Yep.

I never trained at Loredo's and in hindsight I'm very, very glad of that. I've heard some really, really bad things about that crowd. I had the displeasure of teaching at the same gym as Torres and it was everything you'd think it would be. I was really only there at all because I wanted access to mats that badly, but in hindsight I wish I had never involved myself.

That is a crazy run for a freshman Gable--Behm, then Hata. I had no idea that Hatta beat Gable though! 1-1 with Gable is pretty danged impressive. That whole run of Japanese Cowboys seemed to be pretty consistently, well, awesome. I wonder what happened to bring an end to that tradition.

BTW, do you know who Jason Holmes is? 1996 senior nationals high school champ at 152? He beat Matt Torres when Matt tried to make a comeback out of prison and from what I hear, beat him pretty solidly. It's funny, I think the promoters somehow thought a former high school national champ was going to be someone's tune-up. Jason wasn't even on the posters. Annoyingly, Sherdog doesn't have that fight on their fight finder.

Masaaki's Dad was a Judoka with a Japanese Judo team that toured the United States, I believe they had a match with the Oklahoma State Wrestling Team, and the wrestlers beat them badly (to be fair, the Judoka's did not have any gis to hold onto). Masaaki's dad stayed in Oklahoma to learn wrestling and then brought it back to Japan. The Hatta family were the forefathers of wrestling in the country of Japan. Hatta's father sent Masaaki to Okklahoma State, Tadaaki and Uetake followed. During the 1960's and 1970's the Japanese were very good wrestlers and they learned it through Masaaki's father. If you watch the Japanese wrestle, I personally think it is similar to an American style, and I attribute it to the Oklahoma link.

I never met Holmes but I know who he is, and he was a great wrestler, I believe he is from the Flint area. I was actually watching in the stands during the 1996 state championship. A funny little tidbit, have you ever heard of David Gardner? He is famous for waving to the Camera and saying "Hello Japan" leaving his neck open and then getting choked out by Shinya Aoki. Gardner was the State runner up in 1996 to Hatta student Taka Wantanabe. Gardner ended up wrestling for Eastern Michigan for a bit, then got into MMA, Garder had tremendous talent, but he didn't take things seriously, he could have been much better in wrestling and MMA.

I have all kinds of stories I could tell you about Torres and some of his cohorts at Loredo's but I don't want to do it on a public message board. To be fair there were some good people at Loredo's, Dan Thomas used to come to the MSU Judo club, he is now a multiple Masters world champion in BJJ he used to train at Loredo's, and he was a good guy.

 

[dsdoubled]

Do you know how FILA became so powerful in the first place? They suck. Greco is almost totally unwatchable. Freestyle at least, still has some exciting matches.

FILA, now called UWW, was full of gangsters. Seriously, so many of their upper management is/was Russian/Soviet/European OC members. These guys have a track record of getting things done the way they want them done.

 

[dsdoubled]

I dont know of any other way to get it.

Wade Schalles has awesome DVD's though, breaks down the technique very well in is the king of cradles and pinning in general.

IMO one of the top 5 wrestlers in American history.

I think he pinned his way through Tbilisi which at the time was harder and more prestigious than the Olympics.

Are you in HS or College?

Ask your coach because the parents club might buy it for the team if the coach recommends it or you could get a couple of teammates to pitch in and then just copy the DVDs for everyone.

Schalles was great but top 5 in USA history is a huge stretch in my opinion. Sure he won Tblisi and I believe University Worlds along with a couple NCAA DI (and DII) titles and that makes him damn good. A legend for sure. But what about the guys that can match his domestic accomplishments AND have hardware from the Olympics and senior worlds? Guys like Tom Brands, Kendal Cross, Dave Schultz, Chris Campbell, Kurt Angle, and Kyle Snyder have comparable domestic accomplishments, world and Olympic medals/titles, AND they have won the Ivan Yarygin which is at least on par with the old Tblisi tourneys. For me, GOAT USA Wrestlers are:
John Smith
Bruce Baumgartner
Jordan Burroughs
Kenny Monday
Kevin Jackson
Mark Schultz
Dave Schultz
Cael Sanderson
Kurt Angle/Kyle Snyder
Dan Gable
Where they belong on this list is debatable.

 

[Daniel Fox]

Schalles was great but top 5 in USA history is a huge stretch in my opinion. Sure he won Tblisi and I believe University Worlds along with a couple NCAA DI (and DII) titles and that makes him damn good. A legend for sure. But what about the guys that can match his domestic accomplishments AND have hardware from the Olympics and senior worlds? Guys like Tom Brands, Kendal Cross, Dave Schultz, Chris Campbell, Kurt Angle, and Kyle Snyder have comparable domestic accomplishments, world and Olympic medals/titles, AND they have won the Ivan Yarygin which is at least on par with the old Tblisi tourneys. For me, GOAT USA Wrestlers are:
John Smith
Bruce Baumgartner
Jordan Burroughs
Kenny Monday
Kevin Jackson
Mark Schultz
Dave Schultz
Cael Sanderson
Kurt Angle/Kyle Snyder
Dan Gable
Where they belong on this list is debatable.

I do agree with you that although Schalles was an Excellent wrestler, he probably was not a Top 5 guy, however I think he was one of, if not the best Mat Wrestler the US and quite possibly the world has ever produced. On top of that the ability Schalles has to break things down, and systematically explain complicated techniques in an easy way is second to none. Schalles DVD's are hands down the best instructionals I have ever seen in any discipline.

 

[Kforcer]

I have all kinds of stories I could tell you about Torres and some of his cohorts at Loredo's but I don't want to do it on a public message board. To be fair there were some good people at Loredo's, Dan Thomas used to come to the MSU Judo club, he is now a multiple Masters world champion in BJJ he used to train at Loredo's, and he was a good guy.

Dan Thomas...I haven't met the guy, but Scott Han and some other good guys I know came out of Loredo's. Interesting though, that he is a multiple-time masters world champ in BJJ. Haven't run across him or even heard of the guy, but we must have had some sort of cross-over or something. The grappling community, especially the further you go back, is not that big, especially in the Lansing-ish area.

BTW--that is some very, very high praise for Wade. You've got me wanting to pick his DVD's up now. I was only an average wrestler in high school, though I have some wins I am proud of, and I could absolutely use what Wades' DVD's offer. Have you see John Smith's ''How Low Can You Go" however? I really love those and basically all of his instructional stuff. And they have really helped me out a lot.

 

[Kforcer]

Schalles was great but top 5 in USA history is a huge stretch in my opinion. Sure he won Tblisi and I believe University Worlds along with a couple NCAA DI (and DII) titles and that makes him damn good. A legend for sure. But what about the guys that can match his domestic accomplishments AND have hardware from the Olympics and senior worlds? Guys like Tom Brands, Kendal Cross, Dave Schultz, Chris Campbell, Kurt Angle, and Kyle Snyder have comparable domestic accomplishments, world and Olympic medals/titles, AND they have won the Ivan Yarygin which is at least on par with the old Tblisi tourneys. For me, GOAT USA Wrestlers are:
John Smith
Bruce Baumgartner
Jordan Burroughs
Kenny Monday
Kevin Jackson
Mark Schultz
Dave Schultz
Cael Sanderson
Kurt Angle/Kyle Snyder
Dan Gable
Where they belong on this list is debatable.

I think Uetake and Danny Hodge would have to be on any such list.

 

[Daniel Fox]

Dan Thomas...I haven't met the guy, but Scott Han and some other good guys I know came out of Loredo's. Interesting though, that he is a multiple-time masters world champ in BJJ. Haven't run across him or even heard of the guy, but we must have had some sort of cross-over or something. The grappling community, especially the further you go back, is not that big, especially in the Lansing-ish area.

BTW--that is some very, very high praise for Wade. You've got me wanting to pick his DVD's up now. I was only an average wrestler in high school, though I have some wins I am proud of, and I could absolutely use what Wades' DVD's offer. Have you see John Smith's ''How Low Can You Go" however? I really love those and basically all of his instructional stuff. And they have really helped me out a lot.

It's not just the "Killer Cradles", it is pretty much any DVD he puts out, the guy is a great teacher. I own John Smith's how low can you go, and it is a great DVD, the thing is John Smith had a freakishly fast shot, most people aren't that fast, I certainly am not. His low single goes straight in, if your timing is not good, and your shot is not fast you get sprawled on. Smith obviously had the speed and the timing, but most people do not.

Dan Thomas started at Loredo's, then moved to California and trained under Claudio Franco. Thomas went to Vetinary School at Michigan State. http://montereyjiujitsu.com/

 

[dsdoubled]

I do agree with you that although Schalles was an Excellent wrestler, he probably was not a Top 5 guy, however I think he was one of, if not the best Mat Wrestler the US and quite possibly the world has ever produced. On top of that the ability Schalles has to break things down, and systematically explain complicated techniques in an easy way is second to none. Schalles DVD's are hands down the best instructionals I have ever seen in any discipline.

Its interesting you mention his mat wrestling ability. I believe he was named the head of Scientific Wrestling a few years back. Scientific Wrestling is a Catch wrestling school/resource/concept.

 

[Daniel Fox]

Its interesting you mention his mat wrestling ability. I believe he was named the head of Scientific Wrestling a few years back. Scientific Wrestling is a Catch wrestling school/resource/concept.

My knowledge on Catch Wrestling is in the range of limited to non-existent, but I always thought it was a submission form of wrestling. Schalles doesn't really show submissions, he shows pins and set ups to pins, I imagine you could modify his techniques to submit someone, but to be honest with you if you are a BJJ guy who is trying to cross over with submissions from Catch Wrestling I don't think his DVDs would be for them. However, if you are a wrestler from Grade School up to Old Man Veterans, you can learn a tremendous amount from him.

 

[Daniel Fox]

Dan Thomas...I haven't met the guy, but Scott Han and some other good guys I know came out of Loredo's. Interesting though, that he is a multiple-time masters world champ in BJJ. Haven't run across him or even heard of the guy, but we must have had some sort of cross-over or something. The grappling community, especially the further you go back, is not that big, especially in the Lansing-ish area.

BTW--that is some very, very high praise for Wade. You've got me wanting to pick his DVD's up now. I was only an average wrestler in high school, though I have some wins I am proud of, and I could absolutely use what Wades' DVD's offer. Have you see John Smith's ''How Low Can You Go" however? I really love those and basically all of his instructional stuff. And they have really helped me out a lot.

Smith is a great clinician, as well as a wrestler and coach, if his DVD's help you a lot, then by all means keep learning from them. Another guy who I would highly recommend to learn takedowns from is Jon Trenge, his DVD set on the "Clinch" and "Rock Solid Wrestling" are among the best I have seen.