Kicking the arms strategy?

[Universal Kombat]

Why isn't this done more by strikers against grapplers in MMA?

We've seen what multiple blocked kicks can do to forearms in MMA. Hell, even single ones like when a Karate Kempo kickboxer like Chuck Liddell landed one on Rich Franklin and broke his forearm.

Or Sanda guys like Cung Lee on Shamrock where Cung broke Shamrocks forearm.

Or Samkor Kiatmontep vs some lower level Strikers, the way he blasts through their guard and damages their arms.



And we've seen this in kickboxing plenty of times as well.

So we know it's possible.

It seems like a pretty good strategy to me to target the arms via head kicks and causing your opponent to block them. Provided one has the cardio for it since kicks are tiring, it seems like a good strategy to me against people in MMA who might block your kick but don't have the skill to move out the way or counter it. (Grappling based fighter with low level striking)

I've never seen head kicks caught (well, it very rarely happens, and this is why you train the ground game anyways in mma), most people block them or move out the way since catching them is a dangerous proposition if you miss the catch.

Once you get a guy moving out the way from absorbing the head kicks you can start faking a head kick and start landing body kicks, and if they don't move away you will destroy their arms will which give you countless benefits in the fight. If he doesn't give up from the broken arm, he won't be able to raise it to block, that's huge in a fight.

Would one have to be a pretty hard kicker for this? Is this why we don't see it often? I'm asking because even though I've noticed this working for me in sparring, I think I could make it work better in an MMA fight against a grappler based mma fighter considering I won't be using shin guards.

I've competed before in MMA and I grapple myself but I'm primarily a striker. I'm thinking of employing this strategy on my next opponent who's been billed as a boxer.

 

[Jimmy Jazz]

People don't do it because it doesnt score points.

 

[Universal Kombat]

People don't do it because it doesnt score points.

It's not a point scoring technique. It's meant to damage your opponent. And I just showed you examples of people who do it. How can you say they don't? Do you mean to say they don't do it OFTEN because it doesn't score points? That statement I can agree in.

In mma it does score points though. You're the aggressor.

 

[Jimmy Jazz]

It's not a point scoring technique. It's meant to damage your opponent. And I just showed you examples of people who do it. How can you say they don't? Do you mean to say they don't do it OFTEN because it doesn't score points? That statement I can agree in.

In mma it does score points though. You're the aggressor.

I'm talking about mma guys in general. I wasnt aware it scored points. Based on how ive seen fights scored, it doesnt seem like it.

 

[mooner100]

They could break their shin off the elbow.


However, Lawler was very effective against Ellenberger. Ellenberger was shooked.

 

[Universal Kombat]

I'm talking about mma guys in general. I wasnt aware it scored points. Based on how ive seen fights scored, it doesnt seem like it.

It does under pushing the fight and aggression, maybe I'm mistaken. If it looks like you're doing damage and the other guy is just absorbing shot after shot with no response. That round will go to the kicker. I mean, who else would they give it to? The guy who's being defensive?

 

[freaky]

Because it's easy to catch and it does less damage than head kick or leg kick. Also risk of hitting elbows, injuring yourself even more.

One of my coaches only throw lows and highs. He said he always hit people's elbows when he throw mids lol.

 

[Universal Kombat]

Because it's easy to catch and it does less damage than head kick or leg kick. Also risk of hitting elbows, injuring yourself even more.

One of my coaches only throw lows and highs. He said he always hit people's elbows when he throw mids lol.

I think you didn't read my post.

 

[freaky]

I think you didn't read my post.

damn i stopped reading right at the part about head kick. I don't understand either. A good enough head kick even when blocked will still make the head ring. I can't just block it, I have to parry it with my other arm.

I seen the same strategy used for low kicks. I guess low kick is faster and easier. High take longer and more energy. But should be the same.

 

[Universal Kombat]

Well guys I'm gonna try it out. I'll post video if I won. Won't post nothing if I get hilariously knocked out lol.

 

[Universal Kombat]

They could break their shin off the elbow.


However, Lawler was very effective against Ellenberger. Ellenberger was shooked.

Another great example of it working against the typical wrestler/boxer.

 

[a guy]

Risk vs reward doesn't pan out. The odds of breaking a guy's arms before you get taken down or he steps inside and clobbers you is very low for anyone who isn't a stupidly hard kicker hitting someone with poor defense.

 

[Universal Kombat]

Risk vs reward doesn't pan out. The odds of breaking a guy's arms before you get taken down or he steps inside and clobbers you is very low for anyone who isn't a stupidly hard kicker hitting someone with poor defense.

You're absolutely right. I fancy myself a hard kicker but I don't think THAT hard.

The whole reason I thought about this strategy is due to the guy I'm fighting. I saw him KO a BJJ guy and say that boxing is the best post fight. I saw him block and absorb every strike, knees, kicks, it didn't matter. But the BJJ guy didn't have any power, precision or speed behind his strikes.

I'd figure an over confident guy who's used to striking with grapplers with his boxing might be in for a rude surprise against a kicker. As now I'm fighting him in our next event.

 

[Jimmy Jazz]

You're absolutely right. I fancy myself a hard kicker but I don't think THAT hard.

The whole reason I thought about this strategy is due to the guy I'm fighting. I saw him KO a BJJ guy and say that boxing is the best post fight. I saw him block and absorb every strike, knees, kicks, it didn't matter. But the BJJ guy didn't have any power, precision or speed behind his strikes.

I'd figure an over confident guy who's used to striking with grapplers with his boxing might be in for a rude surprise against a kicker. As now I'm fighting him in our next event.

maybe try out the 1-2 rear leg front kick to the chin combo. works for me

 

[Universal Kombat]

maybe try out the 1-2 rear leg front kick to the chin combo. works for me

Do you snap them or do more of a push kick?

 

[Jimmy Jazz]

Do you snap them or do more of a push kick?

I snap them. Whenever guys try head movement on me I catch them with it. you know, bobbing and weaving. The less upright he stands, the more damage he does, which is good because you're fighting a boxer. Another good trick is when a guy gets on his bike and starts circling you, hit him with the spinning back kick. you can also feint the jab a couple times to set it up and get him to stand in place.free points and can hurt him alot if he's up against the fence. .

 

[Paradigm]

TS, I've been thinking about using this more when I get back to my old gym and sparring different people again ever since I watched Lawrence Kenshin's vid on Samkor. I don't think it's used in MMA because of the risk of the takedown but I do MT and don't think it would be as effective in sparring as it would be in an actual fight without shinguards on. Still, you gotta practice it somewhere.

I'm nowhere near the kicker Samkor is but I feel like I kick harder than most of the hobbyists I've trained with and it would at least force people to worry about their arms, opening up other kicks (hopefully).

This is the vid, btw:

They could break their shin off the elbow.


However, Lawler was very effective against Ellenberger. Ellenberger was shooked.

While it's possible, it doesn't sound likely...last I checked, my shin is more durable than my elbow. There's a reason Thais usually recommend you not to block with the arms if you have other options and I haven't seen anyone trying to spike an incoming shin roundhouse with an elbow so there's probably a reason for that.

One of my old coaches (Lerdsila) always stressed avoiding kicks as much as possible but he came up with Saenchai at Jocky Gym and they have a similar elusive style so it's probably not something normal people can usually do. Dude is a freak of nature lol:

Because it's easy to catch and it does less damage than head kick or leg kick. Also risk of hitting elbows, injuring yourself even more.

One of my coaches only throw lows and highs. He said he always hit people's elbows when he throw mids lol.

Watch the Samkor vid I posted...I don't know how that's necessarily easier to catch when he's aiming for the arms a lot of the time and not the body itself.

I'd agree with you if he was going 45 degrees up and trying to slip under the elbow to hit the ribs but a lot of those are landing near horizontal against the upper part of the arm. You try to catch some of those and you might do it or you could end up jamming your arm or missing completely and eating one full force to the face or ribs.

 

[sourdiesel209]

TS, I've been thinking about using this more when I get back to my old gym and sparring different people again ever since I watched Lawrence Kenshin's vid on Samkor. I don't think it's used in MMA because of the risk of the takedown but I do MT and don't think it would be as effective in sparring as it would be in an actual fight without shinguards on. Still, you gotta practice it somewhere.

I'm nowhere near the kicker Samkor is but I feel like I kick harder than most of the hobbyists I've trained with and it would at least force people to worry about their arms, opening up other kicks (hopefully).

This is the vid, btw:





While it's possible, it doesn't sound likely...last I checked, my shin is more durable than my elbow. There's a reason Thais usually recommend you not to block with the arms if you have other options and I haven't seen anyone trying to spike an incoming shin roundhouse with an elbow so there's probably a reason for that.

One of my old coaches (Lerdsila) always stressed avoiding kicks as much as possible but he came up with Saenchai at Jocky Gym and they have a similar elusive style so it's probably not something normal people can usually do. Dude is a freak of nature lol:





Watch the Samkor vid I posted...I don't know how that's necessarily easier to catch when he's aiming for the arms a lot of the time and not the body itself.

I'd agree with you if he was going 45 degrees up and trying to slip under the elbow to hit the ribs but a lot of those are landing near horizontal against the upper part of the arm. You try to catch some of those and you might do it or you could end up jamming your arm or missing completely and eating one full force to the face or ribs.

You could try catching them after a double forearm block, grabbing with the opposite hand but you probably will take some damage. Still much safer than exposing the ribs trying to catch them as if they were 45 degree angle kicks. Most thais just prefer to check them from what Ive seen, or if they go high just fade them, it might have something to do with the scoring too, Im sure a good kick to the arms scores points in thailand.

 

[ARIZE]

In MT, a mid kick that is blocked with arms will still score points, because you do damage... There is no comparison when you go shin against forearm. You have to check the kick to avoid loosing points, but you will still loose in the aggression department if you don't respond with something almost immediately.

In kickboxing heavy kicks are also used against more boxing oriented guys to tire their arms and also make them thinking heavy block instead of counter punching. A good example is what Buakaw did against Zambidis.
I thing this guy does a good analysis about it:



I think (but i am not sure at all if i remember correctly) that Forrest Griffin said that he used that strategy against Rampage Jackson. (+ a lot of leg kicks)

 

[fluffball]

Why are people citing breaking a shin as a thing? The small joint will snap before large solid bones.

I will happily shin kick your elbow all day long, you tell me how many years you can't use that arm.