Khabib vs Conor neck crank

Chok Sok Te

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Hi guys,

Assuming you were in the position Conor was moments before tapping; how would you prevent the choke/ try to escape ?

Conor seemed to just give up with Minimal effort
 
Try and reach the hands, make space, get your hands in and frame.

It's pretty difficult from Conor's position because he had both hands on the mat trying to get up.
Khabib locked the choke up, and the clock starts.

I remember Conor trying to find the hands, but he couldn't and then it's tap city.
 
I would simply have avoided getting the absolute shit beaten out of me in previous rounds of the fight.
 
Yeah just found the finish here:



When he reaches for the hands at ~11 seconds it looks like he's going for the grip.

I'll have to watch fight again, but IMHO I felt like Conor was trying a lot harder not to get taken down in Round 4.

Round 1 he just accepted the takedown, and worked off his back.
 
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I really don't think Conor did that badly.

The turning point was when he got dropped in Round 2.
Otherwise he was doing really well on the ground—he didn't really take any damage in Round 1 and he arguably won Round 3.

And in Round 4, he gave his back because he was trying not to get taken down.
Then Khabib dragged him down, back mount -> escape -> full mount and Conor went for broke.

I think the Diaz fight was a lot more of a "broken" moment. This wasn't IMHO.
 
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He did a good job in the round before that against the cage, in stopping Khabib from getting the high crotch grip he likes to lift people with (which he [Khabib] did successfully in round 2 after stunning McGregor with the right, setting up that major sequence of ground and pound) by using a pumphandle/arm drag grip, which was an interesting wrinkle.

The difference between what he was doing before, when it worked, and what he did in round 4, when he got his back taken, was that before, he was standing up with both legs under him, back flush against the cage, which blocked Khabib from going behind when he was in a perpendicular posture leaning in down by the hips. In the last case though, McGregor committed an unforced error by unthinkingly trying to go back to that arm drag position while his knee was down, exposing the back angle to Khabib, which he capitalized on.

I would not say he accepted the take down in round 1 except in the sparest sense of fatalism; he was trying to stop Khabib and Khabib put him down anyways. He showed a surprising level of defense i did not expect though, and there were a couple moments there where it looked like Khabib was going to lose it. Two specifically come to mind, where Conor managed to get to his feet(foot) while downblocking/framing off of Khabib; the first time he bowled him over onto his hip, the second time he was circling away with the frame in place.

I would say, if it were any other lightweight in the UFC currently, he probably would have broken free and gotten out in those moments. But in those moments Khabib had pure guts and was able to grimly hang on to the leg until he was able to get the edge he needed to sit Conor to his hip and get the double to finish. Maybe before that too even, since Khabib initially went in with a rather telegraphed long distance shot that Conor had a good sprawl on, but where Khabib was able to crawl up into a leg anyways.

The basic essential thing i'd say that ultimately did him in in that exchange was, he lacked a sense of urgency. The sense of urgency you would need to get the better in an exchange with someone of Khabib's caliber. He was able to get to good positions, but each time he failed to fully capitalize. This is probably due in part to the fact that McGregor likely did not have training partners on Khabib's level of skill either, which would give him a feeling for what you would need to do to succeed against guys of that level. By way of contrast, you can look at how Tyquil handled Maia shooting in on his legs; each time Demian would grab a hold, or even look like he was going for a hold, he would be turning out and jerking away like a trapped rat. There are moments where 'no expense is spared', because paying up right then will save you a lot of dear expense to pay subsequently.

The fight was surprisingly back-and-forth in ways, since by the nature of ground-fighter vs stand-up fighter match ups they have a tendency to be squashes for one side or the other. Khabib won by stoppage but looked human at moments. In particular, he once again encountered a difficulty that i have long observed bedeviling would-be grapplers in the cage, even at the highest levels; ending up wasting more energy on top than their opponent does, such that when they get stood up again by the round ending and meet again by the next bell, the man who was on bottom is ready to go and starts piecing up the man who theretofore looked like he was controlling the match (this is why it's so important to learn, know how to, and improve at, Giving The Presh).

If i were McGregor's corner, i would have focused less on 'open field' defense and more on escapes/getting up from the ground and against the cage, better participating in that dynamic. That is how Gegard Mousassi was able to beat Chris Weidman, how Robbie Lawler was able to beat Johnny Hendricks in their rematch, and how Conor himself was able to beat Chad Mendes (this would incidentally also be more in line with the skillsets of his training partners like Nelson or Danis, who tend to be more focused on matwork).

Another interesting interaction in the third round while Khabib was getting his breath back was the clinch fighting. When McGregor would preempt a non-committal shot, Khabib would draw up and stop pressing the action. This is a habit i tend to see even from very good wrestlers transitioning to MMA, where if you don't feel you have a good entry, it's smart to not try and put yourself out on a limb by forcing it, potentially landing you in bad situations or counters you are less able to deal with. The only thing is, in the clinch, the action never really stops even if you aren't going for a TD, and Conor would be landing knees and elbows in these moments. You can see the most glaring example of this sort of hole being exploited in Demetrious Johnson's one round dismantling of Henry Cejudo in their first meeting, or in Tyron Woodley's losses vs Jake Shields and Nate Marquartd. Greater ability at fighting in the clinch is really something pretty much any sort of fighter can benefit from in MMA, whether they like to fight on the ground or in neutral.
 
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I would not say he accepted the take down in round 1 except in the sparest sense of fatalism; he was trying to stop Khabib and Khabib put him down anyways. He showed a surprising level of defense i did not expect though, and there were a couple moments there where it looked like Khabib was going to lose it. Two specifically come to mind, where Conor managed to get to his feet(foot) while downblocking/framing off of Khabib; the first time he bowled him over onto his hip, the second time he was circling away with the frame in place.

I would say, if it were any other lightweight in the UFC currently, he probably would have broken free and gotten out in those moments, but in those moments Khabib had pure guts and was able to grimly hang on to the leg until he was able to get the edge he needed to sit Conor to his hip and get the double to finish. Maybe before that too even, since Khabib initially went in with a rather telegraphed long distance shot that Conor had a good sprawl on, but where Khabib was able to crawl up into a leg anyways.

The basic essential thing i'd say that ultimately did him in in that exchange was, he lacked a sense of urgency. The sense of urgency you would need to get the better in an exchange with someone of Khabib's level of quality. He was able to get to good positions, but each time he failed to fully capitalize. This is probably due in part to the fact that McGregor likely did not have training partners on Khabib's level either, which would give him a feeling for what you would need to do to succeed against guys of that level. By way of contrast, you can look at how Tyquil handled Maia shooting in on his legs; each time Demian would grab a hold, or even look like he was going for a hold, he would be turning out and jerking away like a trapped rat. There are moments where 'no expense is spared', because paying up right then will save you a lot of dear expense to pay subsequently.
I noticed that too. Conor had moments to escape but refused to explode to waste energy. Something Woodley and Aldo are very good at doing.
I feel his downfall was very much not training with high level wrestlers and getting that feel
 
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I noticed that too. Conor had moments to escape but refused to explode to waste energy. Something Woodley and Aldo are very good at doing.
I feel his downfall was very much not training with high level wrestlers and getting that feel
hes not gonna do it i dont think that camp is world class like people think they say bringing in a guy like that isnt gonna help him they think Dillon danas and gunner nelson is good enough grapplers they dont really understand how much better wrestlers are than bjj guys at control and taking down

johns just a bjj black belt thats his credentials
 
He did a good job in the round before that against the cage, in stopping Khabib from getting the high crotch grip he likes to lift people with (which he [Khabib] did successfully in round 2 after stunning McGregor with the right, setting up that major sequence of ground and pound) by using a pumphandle/arm drag grip, which was an interesting wrinkle.

The difference between what he was doing before, when it worked, and what he did in round 4, when he got his back taken, was that before, he was standing up with both legs under him, back flush against the cage, which blocked Khabib from going behind when he was in a perpendicular posture leaning in down by the hips. In the last case though, McGregor committed an unforced error by unthinkingly trying to go back to that arm drag position while his knee was down, exposing the back angle to Khabib, which he capitalized on.

I would not say he accepted the take down in round 1 except in the sparest sense of fatalism; he was trying to stop Khabib and Khabib put him down anyways. He showed a surprising level of defense i did not expect though, and there were a couple moments there where it looked like Khabib was going to lose it. Two specifically come to mind, where Conor managed to get to his feet(foot) while downblocking/framing off of Khabib; the first time he bowled him over onto his hip, the second time he was circling away with the frame in place.

I would say, if it were any other lightweight in the UFC currently, he probably would have broken free and gotten out in those moments. But in those moments Khabib had pure guts and was able to grimly hang on to the leg until he was able to get the edge he needed to sit Conor to his hip and get the double to finish. Maybe before that too even, since Khabib initially went in with a rather telegraphed long distance shot that Conor had a good sprawl on, but where Khabib was able to crawl up into a leg anyways.

The basic essential thing i'd say that ultimately did him in in that exchange was, he lacked a sense of urgency. The sense of urgency you would need to get the better in an exchange with someone of Khabib's caliber. He was able to get to good positions, but each time he failed to fully capitalize. This is probably due in part to the fact that McGregor likely did not have training partners on Khabib's level of skill either, which would give him a feeling for what you would need to do to succeed against guys of that level. By way of contrast, you can look at how Tyquil handled Maia shooting in on his legs; each time Demian would grab a hold, or even look like he was going for a hold, he would be turning out and jerking away like a trapped rat. There are moments where 'no expense is spared', because paying up right then will save you a lot of dear expense to pay subsequently.

The fight was surprisingly back-and-forth in ways, since by the nature of ground-fighter vs stand-up fighter match ups they have a tendency to be squashes for one side or the other. Khabib won by stoppage but looked human at moments. In particular, he once again encountered a difficulty that i have long observed bedeviling would-be grapplers in the cage, even at the highest levels; ending up wasting more energy on top than their opponent does, such that when they get stood up again by the round ending and meet again by the next bell, the man who was on bottom is ready to go and starts piecing up the man who theretofore looked like he was controlling the match (this is why it's so important to learn, know how to, and improve at, Giving The Presh).

If i were McGregor's corner, i would have focused less on 'open field' defense and more on escapes/getting up from the ground and against the cage, better participating in that dynamic. That is how Gegard Mousassi was able to beat Chris Weidman, how Robbie Lawler was able to beat Johnny Hendricks in their rematch, and how Conor himself was able to beat Chad Mendes (this would incidentally also be more in line with the skillsets of his training partners like Danis, who tend to be more focused on matwork).

Another interesting interaction in the third round while Khabib was getting his breath back was the clinch fighting. When McGregor would preempt a non-committal shot, Khabib would draw up and stop pressing the action. This is a habit i tend to see even from very good wrestlers transitioning to MMA, where if you don't feel you have a good entry, it's smart to not try and put yourself out on a limb by forcing it, potentially landing you in bad situations or counters you are less able to deal with. The only thing is, in the clinch, the action never really stops even if you aren't going for a TD, and Conor would be landing knees and elbows in these moments. You can see the most glaring example of this sort of hole being exploited in Demetrious Johnson's one round dismantling of Henry Cejudo in their first meeting, or in Tyron Woodley's losses vs Jake Shields and Nate Marquartd. Greater ability at fighting in the clinch is really something pretty much any sort of fighter can benefit from in MMA, whether they like to fight on the ground or in neutral.



man the game plan they had was for conor to play closed guard vs khabib lol conor doesnt have great hip movement his grappling is best from being on top using his strength thats the most idiotic game plan to try to sub him off his back like conors maia or something that tells me they dont really get this game at a high level
 
man the game plan they had was for conor to play closed guard vs khabib lol conor doesnt have great hip movement his grappling is best from being on top using his strength thats the most idiotic game plan to try to sub him off his back like conors maia or something that tells me they dont really get this game at a high level
I don't think your assessment is fair. I'm not a Connor fan but I think that was a sound strategy given Connors strengths/weaknesses. Play guard and hold on for dear life for the stand up or end of round.

Beats trying waste energy trying to stand up only to be taken down again and again.
The round starts on the feet, this strategy would give connor 5 opportunities to knock Kabib out instead of wasting gas trying to stand up who knows how many times.

Either way it didn't work out for him.
 
Try and reach the hands, make space, get your hands in and frame.

It's pretty difficult from Conor's position because he had both hands on the mat trying to get up.
Khabib locked the choke up, and the clock starts.

I remember Conor trying to find the hands, but he couldn't and then it's tap city.

I don't recall Conor trying to find hands, at least not particularly hard.

Like what everyone else said, by the time he's at that position, he's on a hiding to nothing. Even fighting hands/searching to unwind the choke/break the grip is difficult in that position [edit/add on] delay the inevitable
 
I don't think your assessment is fair. I'm not a Connor fan but I think that was a sound strategy given Connors strengths/weaknesses. Play guard and hold on for dear life for the stand up or end of round.

Beats trying waste energy trying to stand up only to be taken down again and again.
The round starts on the feet, this strategy would give connor 5 opportunities to knock Kabib out instead of wasting gas trying to stand up who knows how many times.

Either way it didn't work out for him.


but they should realize conor loses his pop on his left hand after round 1 and def by round 2 even int he floyd fight which is 3 minute roudns of just hands

on a guy like khabib him playing guard is perfect thats what khabib wishes the reason khabib is so good at riding guys is cause they try to get away from him and he had to adopt those methods but hed much much rather u sit in guard so he can posture and beat your face in

conor didnt play just guard though he tried to get up in round 1 but the fact that their game plan was to play guard thats the worst possible thing vs a man like him conors chances would have been best to do everything he could in round 1 to ko him cause after the round he gets weaker and weaker with that shot
 
but they should realize conor loses his pop on his left hand after round 1 and def by round 2 even int he floyd fight which is 3 minute roudns of just hands

on a guy like khabib him playing guard is perfect thats what khabib wishes the reason khabib is so good at riding guys is cause they try to get away from him and he had to adopt those methods but hed much much rather u sit in guard so he can posture and beat your face in

conor didnt play just guard though he tried to get up in round 1 but the fact that their game plan was to play guard thats the worst possible thing vs a man like him conors chances would have been best to do everything he could in round 1 to ko him cause after the round he gets weaker and weaker with that shot
What takes more energy, holding someone in guard, or trying to stand up against a good wreslter?
 
hes not gonna do it i dont think that camp is world class like people think they say bringing in a guy like that isnt gonna help him they think Dillon danas and gunner nelson is good enough grapplers they dont really understand how much better wrestlers are than bjj guys at control and taking down

johns just a bjj black belt thats his credentials

agreed, the control and pressure that top wrestlers bring to the table is something you down know until you feel it. its not one of those skills you can observe clearly like Machida's crane kick or GSP's duck-under double leg.
 
Regardless if it could have helped more or less. But couldn't have Conor, with his great resources, bring someone better than Danis for grappling? The way I read it everywhere, I see this guy credited as the main specialist for his ground game. While I'm sure he's a good grappler himself, I can't see why or how he should be held so high as a coach or as a technical strategy director for a fight so important.. is it possible there wasn't somebody better available?
 
Regardless if it could have helped more or less. But couldn't have Conor, with his great resources, bring someone better than Danis for grappling? The way I read it everywhere, I see this guy credited as the main specialist for his ground game. While I'm sure he's a good grappler himself, I can't see why or how he should be held so high as a coach or as a technical strategy director for a fight so important.. is it possible there wasn't somebody better available?
They just don’t find it that important apparently. John kavanaugh said he chooses training partners on how well they gel with the team. And when Rogan suggested bringing in high level wrestlers to prepare for the possible rematch he kind of shrugged it off.
They really did/do believe that since Danis fights at 170 that it’s enough...

There were also rumors that Burroughs was invited to SBG but he turned it down
 
They just don’t find it that important apparently. John kavanaugh said he chooses training partners on how well they gel with the team. And when Rogan suggested bringing in high level wrestlers to prepare for the possible rematch he kind of shrugged it off.
They really did/do believe that since Danis fights at 170 that it’s enough...

There were also rumors that Burroughs was invited to SBG but he turned it down

Doesn't seem to me like the brighter of the strategies honestly..

I get it, team cohesion is surely very important, but I also keep reading there weren't high level wrestler sparrings in the camp.. how crazy you must be to prepare for this fight in particular without the latter?

Regardless of Burroughs refusing.. I mean, I'm sure there were other high level guys they could have invite.. no?

This always implying that McGregor odds were still very low regardless, of course.. but the way he and his staff managed the preparation doesn't sound the best possible anyway..
 
They just don’t find it that important apparently. John kavanaugh said he chooses training partners on how well they gel with the team. And when Rogan suggested bringing in high level wrestlers to prepare for the possible rematch he kind of shrugged it off.
They really did/do believe that since Danis fights at 170 that it’s enough...

There were also rumors that Burroughs was invited to SBG but he turned it down

i was a coach at a gym in ireland in early 2012 for few months im telling you the mma there stratiegy skill wise is 2006 usa level they dont have any wrestling there so they still think grappling is grappling that bjj has takedowns and its better they think wrestling is a single leg and a double leg

they may have a few european freestyle guys come coach some but usually those guys arnt very great coaches for mma
 
Doesn't seem to me like the brighter of the strategies honestly..

I get it, team cohesion is surely very important, but I also keep reading there weren't high level wrestler sparrings in the camp.. how crazy you must be to prepare for this fight in particular without the latter?

Regardless of Burroughs refusing.. I mean, I'm sure there were other high level guys they could have invite.. no?

This always implying that McGregor odds were still very low regardless, of course.. but the way he and his staff managed the preparation doesn't sound the best possible anyway..
It’s not about Cohension, it’s about Conor being a princess And practice bully
 
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