Kevin Lee is hyped while Al Iaquinta is mocked?

[radiored]

Like a lot of posters already said a lot can happen in 4 years. Lee in that time has only been beat by Tony Ferguson and Leonardo Santos (not a top fighter but unbeaten in the UFC) and accumulated 10 wins, the last 5 of which were stoppages. Ragin’ Al has only 5 wins and 2 loses in that time and although there is no shame in the Khabib loss, the Mitch Clarke loss(and his 2 years inactive) did knock him down the ratings a bit. This example is a perfect example of momentum in UFC, nothing wrong with people hyping up Lee over Ragin' Al, Al is a solid fighter but hasn't been active since 2015 and still isnt since he pulled out of the Gaethje fight.

 

[PROlogic]

If someone was saying Conor was a tomato can, and had no legit wins, and you came in with your PowerPoint presentation on why he’s gods gift to fighting, and how you have a poster of him on your ceiling next to Jesus Christ

lol that right there proves you are just talking shit, and aren't being genuine at all

If you are so offended at me actually backing up WHY Conor isn't as bad as haters claim, then ignore me

Funny how you never have a problem with haters when haters bring up Conor to shit on him...you are very transaprent friend...claim what you want though..actions speak louder then words: )

I've been more then nice enough to you.

I'm not going to tell you off like someone else would, when you are constantly trolling them, like you do me. Its ok. I have thick skin: ) Still love you.

You may also be mad because Lee is over rated lol.

Again, simply ignore me if facts offend you and If it bothers you that much to hear Conor getting any type of credit. Have a good day. Cheers

 

[PROlogic]

His striking has improved, he got caught with that wheel against Barboza but he looked pretty dam good other that. That was the best he's looked in the octagon against high ranked fighter.

Nope. Barboza is just not a good boxer and is known for his kicking.

Lee is still the same fighter. None of his footage has shown other wise

 

[IamStryker]

Like a lot of posters already said a lot can happen in 4 years. Lee in that time has only been beat by Tony Ferguson and Leonardo Santos (not a top fighter but unbeaten in the UFC) and accumulated 10 wins, the last 5 of which were stoppages. Ragin’ Al has only 5 wins and 2 loses in that time and although there is no shame in the Khabib loss, the Mitch Clarke loss(and his 2 years inactive) did knock him down the ratings a bit. This example is a perfect example of momentum in UFC, nothing wrong with people hyping up Lee over Ragin' Al, Al is a solid fighter but hasn't been active since 2015 and still isnt since he pulled out of the Gaethje fight.

He does have better wins though including a win over Lee.

I think it's odd he is being so put down lately. I think it's another example of fans being fickle and having short memories.

 

[PROlogic]

Yeah, true. Though I do see how Conor can be annoying to some people. If some one is annoying you and you have the option of hitting the mute button, I don't understand why they don't use it. Though I don't really care either.

Same on here - if someone doesn't like your opinion, stick 'em on ignore. Though most folk want to have an argument on here.

I don't have anyone on ignore lol.

I never mind refuting non sense with actual facts.

It's not tiring for me to argue because I hardly ever let emotion dictate my position. My position is dictated by what the actual truth is. Its easy.

I'm here to actually discuss and engage in genuine discussion. I love discussing combat sports. I love doing breakdowns

In all my years I've never seen a group of people worse then Conor haters..Its mind boggling to me

 

[IndyCovaHart]

Usually the people trying to talk bad about Khabib. Like dominating Al isn't impressive....

Not impressive enough to become the paper belt LW champion.

Not by a long shot

So yes, the mockery is justified; especially with that boxing style padded record Habib has.

 

[johncola]

What makes Lee athletic? Just because he has a powerful double?

Lee is stiff as a board in the stand up. Hes slow when striking. Not that coordinated. Lee is no where near a great athlete FOR FIGHTING lol.

And NO where is Lee even close to being the best. Who has he beaten? He was KOd by a BJJ specialist and lost badly to Ferguson

The crazy amount of sherdog hype Lee gets for 1 win over Barboza is absurd... meanwhile you have some sherdog idiots claiming Conor isn't a good fighter when Conor has one of the best resumes in MMA history with wins over truly elite of the elite fighters like Holloway, Aldo, Mendes, Alvarez etc



It's still arguable though. But yeah, I already gave you that Lee is one of the best wrestlers.




This is what makes it sound like you are his mom or something haha: )

Lee is nowhere near charismatic... and I could give a shit about how "confident" he tries to portray himself as lol

Kevin Lee is not popular lmao. There are literally dozens of LWs past and present that I could list, that are far far far more popular than Kevin freaking Lee lol.

Pettis/Melendes/BJ/Edgar/Benson

Tony/Alvarez/Gathje/Poirier/Nate/Chandler

etc etc etc

(It's pointless to list Conor because NO ONE can compare to Conor. Conor is the greatest star in combat sports history)

And I'm saying that the complete opposite could be the case

That Lee could end up doing way worse against Khabib, then Iaquinta did

That "Lee is a better wrestler" doesn't mean much, and hasn't necessarily been proven

And Lee is not a great striker. His striking is just as bad as Khabibs

Where the heck is this crazy misconception coming from that Lee has way better striking?

Because Lee himself says so?

The usual signs of athleticism are what I see in Kevin. Fast, strong, explosive. Yeah, he's clearly not a natural lifelong striker, but I don't think that's down to a lack of athleticism. The technique isn't there yet. And maybe he's just naturally not as suited to striking as other athletes. I admit my opinion is based on intuition rather than analysis, and I'm open to hearing how Kevin Lee isn't particularly athletic. To do that, you should probably list the fighters who are more athletic, as I suggested.

I'm not one of the people claiming Conor isn't a good fighter. He's my favorite fighter.

It's difficult for me to argue for Lee's charisma. It's something you either see or don't see when you observe him. But please list the fighters who are more charismastic. And remember, I'm only claiming that he's one of the more charismatic lightweights; not THE most. I've just taken a look at the top 15 at LW, and I think Kevin Lee is #2 most charismatic on the list, behind only Conor.

Regarding popularity now...

Anthony Pettis is a good shout, as he's a former champ and TUF coach and had a strong fanbase. But I think people don't give a shit about him like they used to. I think Kevin Lee is currently more popular. Melendez and Benson Henderson aren't relevant anymore. Not a chance they're more popular. BJ Penn and Frankie Edgar are both more popular, I agree. But neither of them are active Lightweights.

I'd agree with 5 of the 6 names you list next. Tony/Alvarez/Gaethje/Poirier/Nate. But not Chandler. There are too many UFC-only fans to consider him more popular than Lee. Of those names, only Tony and Nate are decisively more popular (Nate massively so). Alvarez has a big fanbase due to his tenure, and the exposure he got from fighting Conor. But he's not a big talker and he's clearly on the decline now. Gaethje's fighting style makes him popular, but only to a similar degree to Kevin. And Poirier is on a tear right now and has had a prolific UFC career and many exciting fights, but again, I'd say he's only slightly more popular than Lee.

Conor, Nate, Khabib, Tony, Eddie, Poirier, Gaethje. I think Pettis just falls short. That's 7 names. I can't think of any more who are more popular than Kevin. That makes him one of the biggest name lightweights, as I said, and I don't think you've demonstrated otherwise. Btw, who are "etc etc etc"? List the et cetera fighters that you had in mind.

Of course Lee COULD end up doing worse than Al. I've been wrong many times. But I think he'd defend the takedowns and win on the feet. You clearly don't. We can argue about this if you want but it's not something I have a particularly strong opinion about. I just can't see Khabib ragdolling a guy with Kevin Lee's ability. He struggled far too much with Tibau and with Iaquinta late for that to be the case. I don't think Kevin has way better striking than Khabib, but I do think he has better striking. Neither of them look like natural strikers, and they're both extremely suspect defensively. But I'd characterise Kevin Lee more as "careless", while Khabib seems more "clueless"; Kevin has shown more ability, but he can leave himself open, while Khabib is so wild that he's seemingly open all the time.

I hate writing these extremely long posts but I have to respond to everything you said...

 

[radiored]

He does have better wins though including a win over Lee.

I think it's odd he is being so put down lately. I think it's another example of fans being fickle and having short memories.

I wouldn't necessarily say that, plus we are discussing since their fight so you can't really include the Lee fight again for the time since this. All 5 wins were against guys older than him, most past their prime in losing streaks (or atleast losing records these past few years). Masvidal is definitely his best win these past 4 years and even he is 4 - 4 since that fight. I like Pearson but he is done, Sanchez and Lauzon too.

 

[PROlogic]

The usual signs of athleticism are what I see in Kevin. Fast, strong, explosive.

He's not fast. We don't know how strong he is (all though hes obviously pretty strong)

And the only time he ever looks "explosive" is when he shoots a double leg.

 

[johncola]

He's not fast. We don't know how strong he is (all though hes obviously pretty strong)

And the only time he ever looks "explosive" is when he shoots a double leg.

The rest is mostly your opinion, and you being wrong about Lee being popular.

Are you not responding?

 

[legkicktko]

lol that right there proves you are just talking shit, and aren't being genuine at all

If you are so offended at me actually backing up WHY Conor isn't as bad as haters claim, then ignore me

Funny how you never have a problem with haters when haters bring up Conor to shit on him...you are very transaprent friend...claim what you want though..actions speak louder then words: )

I've been more then nice enough to you.

I'm not going to tell you off like someone else would, when you are constantly trolling them, like you do me. Its ok. I have thick skin: ) Still love you.

Again, simply ignore me if facts offend you and If it bothers you that much to hear Conor getting any type of credit. Have a good day. Cheers

I have come down on people before for saying things that are unreasonable against Conor.

I tore a guy a new asshole once for saying Iaquinta would KO Conor because he was the better boxer. The same people who said he would KO Khabib, but after the fight, al is just a real estate agent. Lol. People have the weirdest fucking hard on for Al, I will never understand why. His body of work is unimpressive.

I also come down on people who say Poirier smokes Conor in a rematch. Poirier fights exactly the same imo. He’s a brawler with phenomenal punching power and good cardio. He still gets tagged all of the time by far inferior guys.

The same way I come down on people in this thread who hate Lee, so they pretend he sucks or gets hype for no reason. I know Lee’s lack of credit is on a smaller level than Conor’s.

Did you know back years ago, when Conor was fighting either Brandao or maybe had just beaten Holloway, I made a thread about how Aldo had never beaten a real elite striker in the UFC? I knew there was no evidence of him beating someone of Conor’s striking acumen. He made a career off of TDD and being the better striker but at that point, everyone that fought him needed to take him down to win, I pointed that out and got roasted.

One could argue Stephens is the most dangerous striker Aldo has beaten. Stephens is no Conor.

 

[PROlogic]

Are you not responding?

Chandler does have a bit of a following, but Chandler was a poor choice to include on second thought

Lee is more talked about then him for sure, but that still doesn't detract from the main point

Lee isn't popular by any means like you originally claimed

Lee is "a talked about LW" sure. That doesn't make him a popular LW or popular fighter. Does Lee being the 10th most talked about LW really prove your point?


As for Khabib vs Lee.

I already said I would love to see that fight if/when after Conor beats Khabib

Khabib did have some success controlling Iaquinta with a jab... we never saw Lee have any success standing up with Iaquinta..

Obviously both Khabib and Lee are always leaving many openings and both are very flawed strikers (especially both very flawed defensively) but I feel Khabib pulls ahead of Lee in the striking department. As Khabib takes less shots and still manages to be a more effective striker then Lee (never been dropped while Lee has a habit of being dropped in every single one of his fights)

 

[PROlogic]

I have come down on people before for saying things that are unreasonable against Conor.

I tore a guy a new asshole once for saying Iaquinta would KO Conor because he was the better boxer. The same people who said he would KO Khabib, but after the fight, al is just a real estate agent. Lol. People have the weirdest fucking hard on for Al, I will never understand why. His body of work is unimpressive.

I also come down on people who say Poirier smokes Conor in a rematch. Poirier fights exactly the same imo. He’s a brawler with phenomenal punching power and good cardio. He still gets tagged all of the time by far inferior guys.

The same way I come down on people in this thread who hate Lee, so they pretend he sucks or gets hype for no reason. I know Lee’s lack of credit is on a smaller level than Conor’s.

Did you know back years ago, when Conor was fighting either Brandao or maybe had just beaten Holloway, I made a thread about how Aldo had never beaten a real elite striker in the UFC? I knew there was no evidence of him beating someone of Conor’s striking acumen. He made a career off of TDD and being the better striker but at that point, everyone that fought him needed to take him down to win, I pointed that out and got roasted.

One could argue Stephens is the most dangerous striker Aldo has beaten. Stephens is no Conor.

I didn't know all that. Kudos for that. And my apologies for having you pegged wrong.

 

[Mga223]

What kind of clueless dipshit is mocking Raging Al?

Everyone who's not a useless cunt loves Raging Al.

People are trying to underrate him so hard.

Dudes a beast.

 

[The Natural Born Runner]

Typically I see people talking very highly of his abilities. Saying he would beat Khabib and such.

He would smash Khabib.

You just showed him at 21 years old. Forgive him for being a 21 year old who hadn't hit his peak yet smh.

 

[fightiq]

Al beat Masvidal, the guy is legit. People that discredit Al really have no Idea what the fuck they're talking about. Lee on the other hand is unproven still, he stepped up against Tony and gassed out in under 2 rounds. I believe Al would beat Tony, something Lee couldn't do. Al is underated imo and Lee is overated.

This is a weird analysis. You think Iaquinta would probably win against someone he’s never even fought, therefore he’s definitely better than Lee because Lee didn’t beat him? Am I reading that right?

 

[JosephTessaro]

Sherdog is very short sighted. When a guy loses that had any momentum that guy sucks. A lot of people didn't think Al should get the Khabib fight. Well, he did and he got beat by one of the best LW's out there so he must suck.

Personally, I like watching Al fight, he always seems to bring it. He may be far from another title shot, but he could get in the mix with a few good wins.

 

[Spoken]

Would lol if Al won. I don’t find Lee to be a likeable dude

 

[Gambit MMA]

al would beat lee again lol

 

[scytheavatar]

Al Iaquinta is mocked because he thinks he's too Hollywood to fight Gaethje. Like it or not, Iaquinta has almost certainly fought his last UFC match, he's a full time real estate agent and doesn't take his fighting career seriously.

Which is a shame, because while Iaquinta never had the potential to be champion he would have been an invaluable gatekeeper for 155.