Kevin Lee is hyped while Al Iaquinta is mocked?

[PROlogic]

Kevin Lee is one of the best wrestlers and athletes in the LW division, he's still young, and his striking and overall grappling are always improving too. He's also a charismatic guy, which adds to his popularity.

lol goodness gracious, you are either his mom or Kevin Lee himself

1. Lee is not anywhere close to the best athlete at LW. Athleticism hardly matters in combat sports to begin with. Fighting is all about skill and Lee has no where the skill of the truly elite

2. His wrestling is legit. But it's still arguable whether he's the best.

3. Lee is corny. Not anywhere near charismatic. And is not even close to being popular lol. GO ask any average fan if they know who Kevin fucking Lee is lmao. 10 out of 10 times you will get a "who da fook is dat guy"

 

[dildos]

I think a rematch is needed.

Sounds good since they both fought for titles recently.

 

[IamStryker]

i have a hard time ignoring terrible analysis

What analysis?

Won't Conor be jealous?

 

[JeffDredd]

It's because AI is not able to move like Lee

Haha, only just noticed that Lee is shaking his head at Barboza before he gets his temple relocated.

Lee: You can't do nothing! You can't....
Barboza: Do the stanky leg!

 

[johncola]

lol goodness gracious, you are either his mom or Kevin Lee himself

1. Lee is not anywhere close to the best athlete at LW. Athleticism hardly matters in combat sports to begin with. Fighting is all about skill and Lee has no where the skill of the truly elite

2. His wrestling is legit. But it's still arguable whether he's the best.

3. Lee is corny. Not anywhere near charismatic. And is not even close to being popular lol. GO ask any average fan if they know who Kevin fucking Lee is lmao. 10 out of 10 times you will get a "who da fook is dat guy"

I'm not a particularly big fan of Kevin Lee. And I stand by what I said. You never really refuted what I said here though. I suggest you go and re-read what I said and pay attention to detail. However, instead, I'm willing to go over it again:

1. I never spoke to how much athleticism does or doesn't matter in MMA. But I think Kevin Lee is one of the best (not necessarily THE best). I haven't done a deep analysis of the division as a whole, so it's possibly I'm forgetting countless superior athletes. Feel free to list them; I may agree with you.

2. Again, I said Kevin Lee is one of the best, and not necessarily the best. There surely aren't many better though? Khabib, Gillespie. Gaethje is great but he doesn't use it to take people down. No one else comes to mind right now. Might be forgetting someone though.

3. Lee might be corny, but I disagree that he isn't charismatic. He has personality and confidence and is opinionated. Listen to his interviews and compare them to the average Lightweight's interviews. And again, list me the fighters who are more charismatic than he is. "popular" is relative; I'm not suggesting he's a big draw or a household name; but he's one of the biggest name Lightweights. Being one of the biggest name Lightweights make him a pretty big deal among hardcores, and that's what I'm suggesting he is. So again for a final time, I'd like you to list all the Lightweights who are more popular than him.

 

[PROlogic]

Importantly, he's viewed as someone who'd fare better against Khabib than Al would. He'd be harder to take down, and has better striking than Khabib too.

Ps

styles make fights btw.

Iaquinta's counter to Lee's wrestling was to drop and roll for the legs.

Where as it's a different game against Khabib. Iaquinta still did stuff a few of Khabib's takedowns

Khabib wasn't that impressive in the wrestling or in the stand up against Iaquinta (and Iaquinta took that fight on a days notice)

Kevin Lee's traditional wrestling against Khabib's style of wrestling would be an interesting match up.

We won't know what would happen until it happens. Lee could end up doing wayy worse against Khabib then Iaquinta did

After Conor embarrasses Khabib, Khabib vs Lee would be a good fight to make....

You can't have Lee fighting for a title after he was just destroyed by Tony Ferguson.

For the sake of everything at LW Conor must embarrass Khabib. Conor winning would also legitimize the belt since Conor is the real lineal champ. So for the sake of the Integrity of MMA too Conor must beat Khabib

 

[D'z]

Typically I see people talking very highly of his abilities. Saying he would beat Khabib and such.

When they miss the joke....

 

[MescalineDreams]

What analysis?

Won't Conor be jealous?

wouldn't know

 

[johncola]

Ps

styles make fights btw.

Iaquinta's counter to Lee's wrestling was to drop and roll for the legs.

Where as it's a different game against Khabib. Iaquinta still did stuff a few of Khabib's takedowns

Khabib wasn't that impressive in the wrestling or in the stand up against Iaquinta (and Iaquinta took that fight on a days notice)

Kevin Lee's traditional wrestling against Khabib's style of wrestling would be an interesting match up.

We won't know what would happen until it happens. Lee could end up doing wayy worse against Khabib then Iaquinta did

After Conor embarrasses Khabib, Khabib vs Lee would be a good fight to make....

You can't have Lee fighting for a title after he was just destroyed by Tony Ferguson.

For the sake of everything at LW Conor must embarrass Khabib. Conor winning would also legitimize the belt since Conor is the real lineal champ. So for the sake of the Integrity of MMA too Conor must beat Khabib

My post is indicative that I have the belief that styles make fights, so there's no need for you to say that. Not believing that styles make fights is when people believe in MMA Math, ie Khabib > Al > Kevin. But I'm not saying that. Al's striking is better than Kevin's, yet I think Kevin does better than Al against Khabib, due to his style.

I think Kevin Lee defends Khabib's takedown attempts and beats him on the feet. Though I think he's in danger of being caught by a wild Khabib overhand at any point. But if he avoids that then his superior striking will show itself vs Khabib.

I've never suggested Lee get a title shot or that he deserves one. Tony and the Dustin/Nate winner are at the head of the pack after Conor and Khabib fight.

 

[cyrusthevyrus]

Kevin Lee He's also a charismatic guy, which adds to his popularity.

What????????

 

[PROlogic]

1. I never spoke to how much athleticism does or doesn't matter in MMA. But I think Kevin Lee is one of the best (not necessarily THE best). I haven't done a deep analysis of the division as a whole, so it's possibly I'm forgetting countless superior athletes. Feel free to list them; I may agree with you.

What makes Lee athletic? Just because he has a powerful double?

Lee is stiff as a board in the stand up. Hes slow when striking. Not that coordinated. Lee is no where near a great athlete FOR FIGHTING lol.

And NO where is Lee even close to being the best. Who has he beaten? He was KOd by a BJJ specialist and lost badly to Ferguson

The crazy amount of sherdog hype Lee gets for 1 win over Barboza is absurd... meanwhile you have some sherdog idiots claiming Conor isn't a good fighter when Conor has one of the best resumes in MMA history with wins over truly elite of the elite fighters like Holloway, Aldo, Mendes, Alvarez etc

2. Again, I said Kevin Lee is one of the best, and not necessarily the best. There surely aren't many better though? Khabib, Gillespie. Gaethje is great but he doesn't use it to take people down. No one else comes to mind right now. Might be forgetting someone though.

It's still arguable though. But yeah, I already gave you that Lee is one of the best wrestlers.

3. Lee might be corny, but I disagree that he isn't charismatic. He has personality and confidence and is opinionated. Listen to his interviews and compare them to the average Lightweight's interviews. And again, list me the fighters who are more charismatic than he is. "popular" is relative; I'm not suggesting he's a big draw or a household name; but he's one of the biggest name Lightweights. Being one of the biggest name Lightweights make him a pretty big deal among hardcores, and that's what I'm suggesting he is. So again for a final time, I'd like you to list all the Lightweights who are more popular than him.

This is what makes it sound like you are his mom or something haha: )

Lee is nowhere near charismatic... and I could give a shit about how "confident" he tries to portray himself as lol

Kevin Lee is not popular lmao. There are literally dozens of LWs past and present that I could list, that are far far far more popular than Kevin freaking Lee lol.

Pettis/Melendes/BJ/Edgar/Benson

Tony/Alvarez/Gathje/Poirier/Nate/Chandler

etc etc etc

(It's pointless to list Conor because NO ONE can compare to Conor. Conor is the greatest star in combat sports history)

 

[FleximusPrime]

I've noticed that Kevin Lee is really popular right now.

Is he, where? All he does is talk and miss weight.

 

[FleximusPrime]

Usually the people trying to talk bad about Khabib. Like dominating Al isn't impressive....

You might want to look up the word "dominate", he huffed and puffed against a part-time real estate agent ranked outside the top ten.

 

[PROlogic]

My post is indicative that I have the belief that styles make fights, so there's no need for you to say that. Not believing that styles make fights is when people believe in MMA Math, ie Khabib > Al > Kevin. But I'm not saying that. Al's striking is better than Kevin's, yet I think Kevin does better than Al against Khabib, due to his style.

I think Kevin Lee defends Khabib's takedown attempts and beats him on the feet. Though I think he's in danger of being caught by a wild Khabib overhand at any point. But if he avoids that then his superior striking will show itself vs Khabib.

I've never suggested Lee get a title shot or that he deserves one. Tony and the Dustin/Nate winner are at the head of the pack after Conor and Khabib fight.

And I'm saying that the complete opposite could be the case

That Lee could end up doing way worse against Khabib, then Iaquinta did

That "Lee is a better wrestler" doesn't mean much, and hasn't necessarily been proven

And Lee is not a great striker. His striking is just as bad as Khabibs

Where the heck is this crazy misconception coming from that Lee has way better striking?

Because Lee himself says so?

 

[neil_totally]

I thought Iaquinta has been held in slightly higher regard after the Khabib fight, actually.

He performed better than almost anyone expected him to.

 

[legkicktko]

I'm not a particularly big fan of Kevin Lee. And I stand by what I said. You never really refuted what I said here though. I suggest you go and re-read what I said and pay attention to detail. However, instead, I'm willing to go over it again:

1. I never spoke to how much athleticism does or doesn't matter in MMA. But I think Kevin Lee is one of the best (not necessarily THE best). I haven't done a deep analysis of the division as a whole, so it's possibly I'm forgetting countless superior athletes. Feel free to list them; I may agree with you.

2. Again, I said Kevin Lee is one of the best, and not necessarily the best. There surely aren't many better though? Khabib, Gillespie. Gaethje is great but he doesn't use it to take people down. No one else comes to mind right now. Might be forgetting someone though.

3. Lee might be corny, but I disagree that he isn't charismatic. He has personality and confidence and is opinionated. Listen to his interviews and compare them to the average Lightweight's interviews. And again, list me the fighters who are more charismatic than he is. "popular" is relative; I'm not suggesting he's a big draw or a household name; but he's one of the biggest name Lightweights. Being one of the biggest name Lightweights make him a pretty big deal among hardcores, and that's what I'm suggesting he is. So again for a final time, I'd like you to list all the Lightweights who are more popular than him.

I’m going to save you some time.

The guy responding to you is prologic. He’s a nice dude. But 99% of his posts are epic strawmans he creates so he can bring up Conor. The thread could be about the women’s strawewight title or Chuck Tito, and he will 110% bring up how someone gets too much credit while Conor gets none.

I mean it. If you read through his posts, it’s not something to be mad at him for. It’s actually pretty sad.

As per the discussion. Lee is elite because he fights and has beaten progressively better competition. Al has two fights since 2015, a 50-43 loss, and a win over Diego.

If someone doesn’t see the difference between him and lee they either hate lee or are probably autistic

 

[IamStryker]

You might want to look up the word "dominate", he huffed and puffed against a part-time real estate agent ranked outside the top ten.

The fight wasn't remotely close. He dominated.

If you want to see a close fight with a lot of huffing and puffing then just go watch Conor vs. Nate 2.

 

[PROlogic]

I’m going to save you some time.

The guy responding to you is prologic. He’s a nice dude. But 99% of his posts are epic strawmans he creates so he can bring up Conor. The thread could be about the women’s strawewight title or Chuck Tito, and he will 110% bring up how someone gets too much credit while Conor gets none.

I mean it. If you read through his posts it’s pretty sad.

No need for a response like this. Why you attacking me my man lol?

Look, If someone you hate says 2+2=4, he is still right regardless of your personal feelings

Drop any preconceived notions and biases you have, and simply look at the content of what I posted. I challenge you to: )

Tell me what's nonsense or what you have a problem with

Surley you'd be able to point out specific examples.

If you are objective then you can see that I'm the one making sense

I mean he called Lee a star (he's popular) yet I'm the one who's outlandish?

Get a grip: ) Do you personally get offended when ever Conor is praised and given the credit he's earned?

 

[Hoop]

I think LW has a lot of diverse fighters in the division and it's really hard to get a prediction right, imo, with certain match ups.

Of the fighters who've been in the division for a time you have to look at Nurmagomedov and Ferguson as being the top 2 in the division - but not without their flaws;

Nurmagomedov - you know what he's going to do. I thought he lost 2-1 against Tibau - but since he popped for EPO, you have to question whether he was juiced for that fight. His entry into exchanges are sloppy but effective. I think we've seen evidence he can take a shot, but again, also leaves himself open to being countered.

Ferguson - probably the, or certainly one of the best fighters with his submissions. Does a lot of unconventional stuff. Very tough. A slow starter, imo - would have been interesting to see what would've happened if the 1st round of the Lee fight went on 20-30 seconds longer as Lee was landing some heavy shots on him.

Poirier - very entertaining to watch. A brawler very much, imo. If he fights Diaz, I think he'll take it to the ground like he did against Duffy.

Pettis - hasn't seemed to work on his TDD. Obviously very good off his back. Think his striking is very much the same with the kicks. Knocked Chiesa down with a punch, but looked more like Chiesa wilted. Nonetheless, a good confidence boost for Pettis. Probably be a good idea for him to take the Lee fight at 229 if he's healthy - which I think has being another issue with him throughout his career.

Lee - very good take downs. Underrated submission game that not a lot of people talk about. Still young enough, but if he goes toe to toe with a striker, he looks out of his depth. He's training with Dewey Cooper and I assume he wants to be more proficient with his striking, but I think he should focus on keeping his guard up and working on ways not to be hit and getting them to the ground.

Diaz - if you are a grappler and have some nous on the ground, it's probably the best way to beat him by taking him down. Good jab, one-two, puts the pressure on at the right time.

Vick - probably under the radar a bit. Big LW. Thought that uppercut he caught Duffy with showed he has some good power. Got KO'd badly by someone not known for their punching power. Doesn't really use his reach or height to his advantage when standing up. Think the Gaethje fight is a bit of a lose-lose for him - if Gaethje stands with him and gets clobbered, folk will expect that to happen.

Still a way to go, but I think that Hernandez chap looks promising. He was controlling OAM in a lot of the grappling exchanges - who is a solid grappler himself. Good cardio as well.

 

[PROlogic]

The fight wasn't remotely close. He dominated.

If you want to see a close fight with a lot of huffing and puffing then just go watch Conor vs. Nate 2.

Khabib looked like shit against a real estate agent

If Khabib ever looked that dominant on the feet against a bigger elite striker, you would be worshiping Khabib

Khabib has never been that dominant in his life lmao

Khabib gassed in round 4 vs a real estate agent

Meanwhile Conor dominated round 4 against a Diaz brother. Conor has the far superior cardio. Put Conor in Iaquinta's shoes in that round 4, and Conor finishes Khabib in that round 4