Ken shamrock worst declined fighter ever ?

Asurah said:
His grappling was heavily dependent on his strength and athleticism, much more so than great technique. Old age and injuries hit those 2 things hard which caused a quick and dramatic drop off.
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The quality of athlete just got better. Ken Shamrock was supposed to be a 'big' guy and an 'athlete'. In the early days, he was. But he's only 204 lbs.

He'd be tiny and unathletic nowadays. What made him great in his time -- size and athleticism -- wasn't even average by 2000.
 
superpunch said:
The quality of athlete just got better. Ken Shamrock was supposed to be a 'big' guy and an 'athlete'. In the early days, he was. But he's only 204 lbs.

He'd be tiny and unathletic nowadays. What made him great in his time -- size and athleticism -- wasn't even average by 2000.
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Ken that whooped and out wrestled Severn was 225 and prime and beat anyone least top 3 today
 
Idonotbelieveit said:
Ken that whooped and out wrestled Severn was 225 and prime and beat anyone least top 3 today
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Not sure if you're serious about the top 3 part--certainly don't agree with that. However, I do think he was the best NHB fighter at the time he beat Severn--and that's saying something. He also beat Oleg and would certainly win a decision vs. Royce if there were judges. He later lost a close, controversial split decision to Severn. Then he left the sport just as guys like Coleman and Kerr hit the scene. While I don't think he'd beat them, I think he'd remain a Top 5 HW for several years if he didn't move to pro wrestling.

Yes, his skillset was limited, but there were no true well-rounded fighters in the mid-90s. The closest were Ruas (who never could beat Oleg) and maybe Frye, who couldn't beat the much bigger but less well-rounded Coleman. It's not fair to compare any of these guys with current well-rounded fighters. They have the benefit of almost 25 years of evolution and training. And we still have somewhat successful HWs like Derrick Lewis whose skillset isn't much different than 1990s HWs.
 
Sherdoggy said:
Sorry, but both sides are looking at film and offering opinions ("making assertions"). Why would my assertion need to be proved and yours not? Mine is no more "scientifically unfalsifiable " (from your reference wiki page) than yours. And don't forget the logical fallacy of "ad populum" - appeal to the crowd. More people believing something is not proof that it is correct.
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I'm not claiming that they weren't works, I am rejecting the claim they are based on lack of evidence.
 
mkt said:
Not sure if you're serious about the top 3 part--certainly don't agree with that. However, I do think he was the best NHB fighter at the time he beat Severn--and that's saying something. He also beat Oleg and would certainly win a decision vs. Royce if there were judges. He later lost a close, controversial split decision to Severn. Then he left the sport just as guys like Coleman and Kerr hit the scene. While I don't think he'd beat them, I think he'd remain a Top 5 HW for several years if he didn't move to pro wrestling.

Yes, his skillset was limited, but there were no true well-rounded fighters in the mid-90s. The closest were Ruas (who never could beat Oleg) and maybe Frye, who couldn't beat the much bigger but less well-rounded Coleman. It's not fair to compare any of these guys with current well-rounded fighters. They have the benefit of almost 25 years of evolution and training. And we still have somewhat successful HWs like Derrick Lewis whose skillset isn't much different than 1990s HWs.
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Ruas schooled Oleg at World Vale Tudo Championships.

And Ruas was a true well-rounded fighter in the 1990s, he was even named Most Complete Fighter in 1994, as a HW !

Ruas already had the full Striking Package in the 1980s: Muay Thai,Capoeira, and... boxe!... (He was the Rio de Janeiro HW Champ)
+ as a Luta Livre dude, he started to get better on the ground by mid-1980s, thanks to Brunocilla´s teaching.
He then trained BJJ in the 1980s too.
 
InfinityLens said:
I'm not claiming that they weren't works, I am rejecting the claim they are based on lack of evidence.
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Here's the video of the second fight. It lasts one minute 25 seconds. I counted about seven (mostly weak) total punches thrown. Kimo throws two or three pawing jabs in the beginning, all misses. Shamrock throws a punch that misses over Kimo's head as he dives in for a clinch. At 3:07 Kimo pulls his right arm out of an endless clinch and throws a punch over the top of Shamrock's head. Right over the top as their heads are inches away from each other. A little later, again in a clinch Shamrock throws a little left that hits Kimo but appears to have nothing on it. At the end Kimo is sitting stationary on the ground and Shamrock throws a right hand at him that misses. So it was a fight lacking one significant thing - punches. Particularly punches that landed. Unfortunately, the original fight between the two appears to be gone from youtube. That fight was even more remarkable. As I remember it, in that fight there were even fewer than seven punches thrown and they were only thrown to the body.

 
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Ken was actually just past his prime in UFC 1 ! If you look at his early pancrase vids, he was a stud

by the time Ken had finished his WWE stint, he was well well past his prime. He had to fight later in life like Dan Severn did because the money just wasn't there in the early days
 
Dessyboy said:
Ken was actually just past his prime in UFC 1 ! If you look at his early pancrase vids, he was a stud

by the time Ken had finished his WWE stint, he was well well past his prime. He had to fight later in life like Dan Severn did because the money just wasn't there in the early days
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Ken just past his prime in UFC 1 ?

U´re a lil bit reaching.
 
Sherdoggy said:
Here's the video of the second fight. It lasts one minute 25 seconds. I counted about seven (mostly weak) total punches thrown. Kimo throws two or three pawing jabs in the beginning, all misses. Shamrock throws a punch that misses over Kimo's head as he dives in for a clinch. At 3:07 Kimo pulls his right arm out of an endless clinch and throws a punch over the top of Shamrock's head. Right over the top as their heads are inches away from each other. A little later, again in a clinch Shamrock throws a little left that hits Kimo but appears to have nothing on it. At the end Kimo is sitting stationary on the ground and Shamrock throws a right hand at him that misses. So it was a fight lacking one significant thing - punches. Particularly punches that landed. Unfortunately, the original fight between the two appears to be gone from youtube. That fight was even more remarkable. As I remember it, in that fight there were even fewer than seven punches thrown and they were only thrown to the body.

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Jus´curious..Ure sayin´Kimo took a dive,in the 2nd fight?
 
Well... He had the longest time being terrible after a long period of being decent. Would not be top 3 today in any way, shape, or form.
 
Steve08 said:
he got tapped by Royce in under a minute... then had top position on Royce for literally more than half an hour and didn't do a damn thing. So... no.
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Royce was wearing his gi which, if you're not aware, is a deadly weapon. It's like taking a knife or even a gun into the cage.
 
I dunno Ken's last 2 Bellator fights were way more entertaining than Woodley's last fight... Weird and suspicious non-submission of Kimbo then the fake Ball shot freak out v. Royce. LOL Ken with the WWE antics.

2 fights Ken wen't from old ass RV to over a Mil. Bravo! Deserving for being one of the originals.
 
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