Ken shamrock worst declined fighter ever ?

[ClubFoot]

Igor is his best win, for sure.. But, other than that, it was a lackluster carreer...

Didnt expect him to beat Rizzo, for sure, even Belfort... But the way he fought Barreto, for instance..not impressive.. Then u have his loss against Sylvia... Really not impressive..

Losses you mentioned were to tournament or HW champs in waiting. Remember, we're talking about the best fighters in the Lions Den, not overall.

 

[mkt]

I agree with ur assessment on Ken, but the 2nd Royce fight was pure BS, with or without judges, Ken lost some of my respect in this fight.. pure L&P

It was a boring fight, but you have to consider the context--Royce was undefeated, having submitted all of his opponents. The UFC hype machine made him look invincible. Ken's focus on that fight was primarily to not get submitted.

And to be fair, all Royce did was hang out in his guard and wait for Ken to make a dumb mistake...which Ken never did. He was hoping get would finally get frustrated or bored and he could get a triangle or something--like the Royce-Severn fight. Neither guy was aggressively going for the win. That fight destroyed the Gracie mystique, though, and set the stage for "Gracie Killer" Sakaruba several years later.

 

[DaPunkMinowaMan]

Losses you mentioned were to tournament or HW champs in waiting. Remember, we're talking about the best fighters in the Lions Den, not overall.

Well,its not like Belfort or Rizzo were dominant champs or something.. And the loss to Barretão was pretty lousy...

 

[DaPunkMinowaMan]

It was a boring fight, but you have to consider the context--Royce was undefeated, having submitted all of his opponents. The UFC hype machine made him look invincible. Ken's focus on that fight was primarily to not get submitted.

And to be fair, all Royce did was hang out in his guard and wait for Ken to make a dumb mistake...which Ken never did. He was hoping get would finally get frustrated or bored and he could get a triangle or something--like the Royce-Severn fight. Neither guy was aggressively going for the win. That fight destroyed the Gracie mystique, though, and set the stage for "Gracie Killer" Sakaruba several years later.

I see ur point, clearly the Gracie strategy during a no-limit fight against a heavier opponent was to capitalize on the opponent´s mistake, but honestly, I was far more disappointed with Ken..

As I said earlier:

Btw UFC 1 & UFC 5, Ken had basically 2 yrs to study Royce´s game.

He was injured at UFC 2, but still, during an interview at ringside, he stated that he was workin´
on his game, and that he would come back with some kind of "master plan".
That was obviously hinted at Royce.

But, at UFC 5, he didnt really go for the win, he definitely wanted the draw, believed it was a victory for him...
Thus he L&Ped, didnt mount any serious offense (Im aware of the numbers though).

Look at Kimo for instance, he was much more game than Ken against Royce, and Kimo was very close to win.

Royce was never really in danger in that fight against Ken, reminded me one of the ol´Vale Tudo fights from the 1980s-90s, where even the BJJ guy would only headbutt and basically L&Ped..

Ken could have showed more in this 2nd fight, but he shrunk.

 

[InfinityLens]

Bob Sapp is the most declined and it isn't even debatable. Goes from world-class in K-1 and MMA to a joke in local promotions, and the drop off was sudden.

Main difference is Ken was physical (injuries, etc) and Sapp was more taking dives for cash.

 

[Sapp]

Main difference is Ken was physical (injuries, etc) and Sapp was more taking dives for cash.

Yeah, I wouldn't have said it if this thread was worst physically declined fighter. Bob is actually still in great shape even in his mid 40s. Bob is the most declined fighter overall because he refuses to get injured.

 

[InfinityLens]

Yeah, I wouldn't have said it if this thread was worst physically declined fighter. Bob is actually still in great shape even in his mid 40s. Bob is the most declined fighter overall because he refuses to get injured.

Sadly debatable, he didn't look good in Sapp v Akebono 2. He at least won though.

 

[ShinkanPo]

That 4 years ruined him

Ken was the man in 96 would have been good matches in 9798. Coleman Kerr randy etc

I think he knee bars Coleman or Ko him Coolman got koed bkasted by Pete Williams.

 

[ShinkanPo]

But nobody really gave a dusty shit about Tim Sylvia, champion or no, to have a huge decline. He was flabby, had no areas he was real real good or unique in, did not really have an electric personality. He was a pretty good heavyweight for a few years, then fell off. To be fair, the UFC's HW division did not have much to offer at all, especially in comparison to Pride, where the talent pool was not only incredibly deep and talented, it boasted many of the GOAT contenders, HW or no, of all time. So Sylvia did not have too much to work with for a while, but after Pride got bought, his decline was in swing.

Yeah nobody gave shit about Tim Sylvia.. nobody gave SHIT to the one true Brown Pride with the Brown streak..


Yeah right.

 

[Lionheart7167]

In his prime Shamrock was certainly a beast. He was great with submissions, an explosive athlete (especially for his size), and definitely a force in those early days.
With that said.....
He was a juicer, and primarily got his most notable wins in organizations like Pancrase and Pride which were pretty lax about the whole testing thing.
ALSO, during the height of his reign in the early days, he fought in Pancrase, an organization with a rules subset that perfectly fit his style. Had they allowed closed fists striking or ground and pound I have a feeling we wouldn't be talking about Shamrock in the same light today.

 

[nawab1111]

Not really because he just got old. If he were still 30 he'd be a top 10 LHW but most of his losses happened after he got older and he just wasn't the same. Happens to everyone eventually except maybe Fedor.

 

[Sherdoggy]

He is a small frame and arms for his weight class. If he fought actual fights and not just works back in the day, the competition went way up over time, which would make him appear to severely decline even though it is the competition getting better.

 

[Idonotbelieveit]

I think he knee bars Coleman or Ko him Coolman got koed bkasted by Pete Williams.

Yep

Only guy that would have beat ken prime is new guys coming up

Nog Fedor cro cop

Ken was man pre 2000

Tom Erickson maybe

 

[Idonotbelieveit]

He is a small frame and arms for his weight class. If he fought actual fights and not just works back in the day, the competition went way up over time, which would make him appear to severely decline even though it is the competition getting better.

Name 3 worked fights of ken and proof

 

[Idonotbelieveit]

I see ur point, clearly the Gracie strategy during a no-limit fight against a heavier opponent was to capitalize on the opponent´s mistake, but honestly, I was far more disappointed with Ken..

As I said earlier:

Btw UFC 1 & UFC 5, Ken had basically 2 yrs to study Royce´s game.

He was injured at UFC 2, but still, during an interview at ringside, he stated that he was workin´
on his game, and that he would come back with some kind of "master plan".
That was obviously hinted at Royce.

But, at UFC 5, he didnt really go for the win, he definitely wanted the draw, believed it was a victory for him...
Thus he L&Ped, didnt mount any serious offense (Im aware of the numbers though).

Look at Kimo for instance, he was much more game than Ken against Royce, and Kimo was very close to win.

Royce was never really in danger in that fight against Ken, reminded me one of the ol´Vale Tudo fights from the 1980s-90s, where even the BJJ guy would only headbutt and basically L&Ped..

Ken could have showed more in this 2nd fight, but he shrinked.

I agree ken should and could have showed more

But it was one sided and he beat him down Royce had to be carried out of cage by rickson and rolyler

40 short headbutts in guard 20 short punches and two big right hands in OT

Royce only threatened ken with Ezekiel choke for about 5 seconds

 

[DaPunkMinowaMan]

I agree ken should and could have showed more

But it was one sided and he beat him down Royce had to be carried out of cage by rickson and rolyler

40 short headbutts in guard 20 short punches and two big right hands in OT

Royce only threatened ken with Ezekiel choke for about 5 seconds

Think about what I said about his L&P against Royce and check this> this is what Ken said after the fight to justify the UFC 9 fiasco (againt Severn):

"You watch the fight, anybody will tell you strategy had nothing to do with that. If you call running on the outside of the ring with a smaller opponent and you're basically world class wrestler, where you should be able to take the guy down when you want to take him down and you are running from him... I'm not sure where that plays in to being strategic."

 

[Idonotbelieveit]

Think about what I said and check this> this is what Ken said after the fight to justify the UFC 9 fiasco (againt Severn):

"You watch the fight, anybody will tell you strategy had nothing to do with that. If you call running on the outside of the ring with a smaller opponent and you're basically world class wrestler, where you should be able to take the guy down when you want to take him down and you are running from him... I'm not sure where that plays in to being strategic."

UFC 9 was a fuck up

Ken was only fighter on card that stuck by rules

Everyone else used closed fists ken didn't

Also ken fought Severn with cracked rib and still stuffed his takedowns

Ken is better fighter UFC 6

Easily

Severn was older and past it but he still elite wrestler but Coleman ken were better

 

[Idonotbelieveit]

UFC 6 ken beats anyone imo on any day

 

[Idonotbelieveit]

Think about what I said and check this> this is what Ken said after the fight to justify the UFC 9 fiasco (againt Severn):

"You watch the fight, anybody will tell you strategy had nothing to do with that. If you call running on the outside of the ring with a smaller opponent and you're basically world class wrestler, where you should be able to take the guy down when you want to take him down and you are running from him... I'm not sure where that plays in to being strategic."

Nice quote

 

[ShinkanPo]

Yep

Only guy that would have beat ken prime is new guys coming up

Nog Fedor cro cop

Ken was man pre 2000

Tom Erickson maybe

A fight with Tom Erikson would look like the Heath Herring fight in pride