Keeping lead hand in sticking out in front?

[Davem10]

The problem with some of the suggestions on how to deal with it are that the moment you touch the person's lead arm or hand, they KNOW how far away you are. If they're any good or know WHY they're trying to get that information, you're gonna get hammered. They'll keep you at THEIR optimal distance, and you'll always struggle to reach them and make them have to reach because you keep giving them the information they need over and over.

This reminds me of a video I saw on fencing where a fencing instructor who built multiple Olympic medalists was asked about feints and sword-play (where you tap their sword with yours, then attack, which is the same thing we're discussing here). He said you can always spot an novice fencer because they're obsessed with these two things, trickery. It's the tell-tale sign of a novice. That's not an insult, but he said when you're a novice and first learn these things you want to do them to EVERYONE. Until you come across a master fencer. The difference is a master fencer typically ignores these attempts at trickery, they're either going to stab you or not stab you. They'll only use feints and swordplay sparingly, if the need arises.

So, I've said all that to say this: I teach my fighters to treat hand-play as if it were a punch. Don't do anything different than what you would do if they were actually throwing a jab at you. Here is my Elite level Amateur Daijon Carter sparring with the #1 141lb'er in the U.S. right this second. He does well against Freudis because when Freudis tries to measure him, he responds to each attempt as if he is being punched at, or as if he is not being punched at:



(My fighter is in black)

Thanks

I didnt see much of what i was talking about in that video but it was an enjoyable watch

So basically youre saying as soon as he starts measuring me instantly deal with it just like a punch and never allow him to leave it in my face ? If he does some how manage to establish it in my face , then what ? should i just move back and circle to force him to adjust ?

 

[GordoBarraBJJ]

Two things:

1) Gauging distance to tell how far away the opponent is. That information is crucial to hitting them, and preventing getting hit by them.

2) Threatening the opponent. If you do want a specific distance, the opponent must have a deterrent to advancing. Think of a knife fight. If you have a knife, better to threaten your opponent with it if they also have a knife, as opposed to keeping it closer to yourself and less of a danger to them.

Examples:



Some people would attribute Rigo's ability to NOT use his right hand as defense to his speed, but that's actually backwards. He uses the technique of consistently poking and prodding with his right hand to ascertain how far the opponent is, make his attack, and recover to a safe position. It just makes him look fast when the opponent's reaction is always a step behind.



Many people like to think Golovkin's opponents are there to be hit out of fear. That they fear him so much they just don't do much when he fires. But the fact is they're not sure what range he's at while he's sure what range they are at (mostly, when he's unsure, you see him get hit back, he just doesn't always care). He essentially uses his left hand to say "stay right there"...then throws his power shots.

Erickson Lubin fights very similarly:



These guys just trade the perceived risk of less defense for control of distance, which ion Rigo's case, leads to easier acquiring of angles. He makes a move at a certain distance, the opponent sees it and tries to adjust and attack, but is too far away to actually hit him.

Awesome post.

 

[sourdiesel209]

You smash that lead hand down and rush in. Smash it hard so he have a longer time to bring it up.

Keeping it out there is bad. But using it to "paw" like mayweather or poke lik Jones is fine. My lead is always sticking out but not straight out 24/7. I extend>retract>extend>retract. Like some half ass endless double jabs.

Ive found more sucess actually grabbing that lead hand instead of smashing it down, if you just smash it they can keep backing off or worse they can counter you since they know your in range. But if you grab it they have nowhere to go, pretty sure this is not legal in boxing tho, only MT/MMA.

 

[freaky]

Ive found more sucess actually grabbing that lead hand instead of smashing it down, if you just smash it they can keep backing off or worse they can counter you since they know your in range. But if you grab it they have nowhere to go, pretty sure this is not legal in boxing tho, only MT/MMA.

Grabbing it, you both lose 1 arm, both your arms are tied up. Smashing it, he will lose 1 arm but you still have 2. Your arm don't go down with his.

I agree the part about them backing up. Precisely what we're trying to do. Back him up and corner him. He will try to strafe but we will cut his corner. As for his counter, that's why we have our guards up. It's more like a parry/straight. I treat their arm as if they are throwing a jab, parry it and strike with that same hand.

Assume orthodox vs orthodox. Use rear hand to smash his lead then throw an immediate straight. He is open to the straight but you should still be covered up with your left. And yes, with boxing gloves, it is impossible to "grab". I'd be more afraid of a counter tying up my hands with theirs. It's 1 hand vs 1 hand. Only time I tie up their hands is when I'm in the clinch.

 

[Sinister]

Thanks

I didnt see much of what i was talking about in that video but it was an enjoyable watch

So basically youre saying as soon as he starts measuring me instantly deal with it just like a punch and never allow him to leave it in my face ? If he does some how manage to establish it in my face , then what ? should i just move back and circle to force him to adjust ?

Just look for whenever they softly extend their arms as opposed to actually punching. It's difficult to see because they are fast, and they retract their hands quickly if it's not working.

And yes, instantly deal with it as if it's a punch. That's what Daijon does that causes Freudis to retract his right hand quickly.