KASAI PRO 2 RESULTS (Spoliers, duh)

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by kpoz12, Apr 15, 2018.

  1. kpoz12

    kpoz12 The No Life King Platinum Member

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    So... lil Nicky did it!

    [​IMG]

    Full results via FloGrappling

    Round 1

    Craig Jones def Nick Calvanese via triangle – watch

    Mike Perez def Dante Leon via heel hook – watch

    Felipe Mota def Pierre-Olivier Leclerc via points 9-0 – watch

    Matheus Diniz def Richie Martinez via points 7-0 – watch


    Round 2

    Nick Calvanese def Mike Perez via points 4-2 – watch

    Craig Jones def Dante Leon via points 2-0 – watch

    Matheus Diniz def Felipe Mota via points 2-0 – watch

    Pierre-Olivier Leclerc vs Richie Martinez – draw – watch


    Superfight

    AJ Agazarm def Marcos Galvao via inside heel hook – watch


    Round 3

    Dante Leon def Nick Calavanese via rear naked choke – watch

    Mike Perez def Craig Jones via points 3-1 – watch

    Richie Martinez def Felipe Mota via armbar – watch

    Matheus Diniz def Pierre-Olivier Leclerc via darce choke – watch


    Superfight

    Nicky Ryan def Geo Martinez via decision – watch


    Third place match

    Craig Jones def Richie Martinez via inside heel hook – watch


    Superfight

    Eddie Cummings def Renato Canuto via penalty point – watch


    Final

    Matheus Diniz def Mike Perez via points 2-0 – watch
     
    Last edited: Apr 15, 2018
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  2. Dogstarman

    Dogstarman Old man jiu jitsu

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    God damn. How much is flograppling?
     
  3. kenetics

    kenetics Red Belt

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    I was very dissapointed in Canuto. He made that match with Cummings very boring.
     
    Last edited: Apr 17, 2018
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  4. vcmmafan

    vcmmafan Dark Knight Returns

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    The regular price for an annual FloPRO subscription on FloGrappling is $149.99, which is a 37% savings vs. the prorated monthly subscription ($19.99).
     
  5. DatCutman

    DatCutman Yellow Belt

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    Relatively long, uninteresting tangent.

    I understand, theoretically at least, that Cummings vs. Canuto is a stalemate. Canuto generally wins on points from a takedown, Cummings wins by leg entanglements from seated guard. If either one left their sphere of superiority, it meant by necessity entering the other's sphere of superiority. Therefore, neither man was going to risk leaving their A-game, and this was really the inevitable result. I get it.

    But jesus christ that was the most boring thing I've ever seen. Who's to blame? In my opinion, Kasai is to blame, for not having a ruleset in place to stop this manner of sillyness.

    Both men stuck to their game plan. I've seen complaints lodged at both men; Canuto for doing his best impression of a long distance sprinter, that Cummings must have ringworm with all that buttscooting he was doing, etc. etc. It ultimately comes down to the rules of engagement; who has to engage whom? The traditional BJJ rules that you always have to engage a guard puller have always seemed a little off to me; it's rewarding the bottom man, and forces the other person into the bottom man's sphere of superiority (given, however, that BJJ is a guard-centric art I understand why the rule is in place). Proponents of takedowns also complain, and justifiably so, that pulling guard puts you in a disadvantageous position right off the bat, and since rules are supposed to reflect positional superiority (the main principle of BJJ, after all) the guard puller should instead be penalized, rather than forcing engagement. Guard pullers also go back and say well, if guard is so disadvantageous, you should be glad I'm pulling guard since I'm giving you a better position. Takedown guys bring up MMA. The argument continues on and on, a tale of buttscooting and takedowns, eternally retold.

    I think ultimately it boils down to there are two mind sets; BJJ as its own game or sport, and BJJ as a martial art or feeder system into MMA. These competitions need to figure out which ideology they support and craft their rules around it. You can't have it both ways.

    Unrelated, but I think Genki Sudo's Ikkiuchi event has the best ruleset if you ever want to make BJJ a spectator friendly, self-contained game.
     
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  6. mataleaos

    mataleaos Purple Belt

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    Diniz is a beast and unfortunately since the event wasn't super exciting I have a feeling people will sleep on his performance because of Geo/Nicky and Eddie/Canuto being bigger stories.

    Diniz showed an absolute masterclass display of well rounded ju-jitsu and even in a no-gi sub-only setting where guard passing isn't needed to win, the man went out there and made passing look super easy and he still went for the kill. He got a beautiful brabo choke and they stopped the match prematurely. He went right back and got it again. Very fun competitor to watch and even though that may have been the only submission he finished he was out there hunting for them.

    Craig Jones' triangle from z-guard as well as his 4-11 entry and inverted heel hook finish on Boogey Martinez was beautiful.

    Boogey's armbar from rubber guard was gnarly as fuck.

    Nicky Ryan is a beast and an underrated aspect of his performance was his x-pass attempts. I thought the match was very close but I was leaning slightly towards Nicky due to his variety of attacks and he just felt slightly more aggressive. I noticed his facial expressions were fairly animated so maybe that sold a bit more of the aggression to me. The reverse triangle at the end of the match definitely tilted it in his favor. I would have loved to see another 30 seconds to see if he would've finished Geo.

    One of the worst matches I have ever seen.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
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  7. mataleaos

    mataleaos Purple Belt

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    Regarding your final bolded sentence. I think another very exciting rule set is Jeff Glover's Sunday Rollout rules: No time limit. First person to reach 12 points or get a submission wins.

    I understand the discipline that is needed to win at that level. I know why Canuto wanted to avoid stepping into the guard. I mean on a very fundamental level it's literally dangerous. Eddie is a scary grappler and goes for the break. One mis-step and not being ready to tap fast enough could sideline you for a while. But I mean if you basically don't want to grapple then don't show up. I do put most of the blame on Canuto but I also had some frustration as a viewer with Eddie not changing up his strategy either.

    I do see BJJ as its own game/sport and it's not a sport that's largely contested on the feet. So I've always been of the mind that once someone is on bottom, just try to pass and if you get swept or submitted then that's just how it goes. I'm also not an elite grappler though so these guys don't give a fuck what I think.

    I do know for sure that BJJ will never actually become mainstream or appeal to more casual fans because of matches like this. And I'm fine with that. I think it's fool's errand to try to appeal to casual fans anyways.
     
  8. yetanother

    yetanother Brown Belt

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    Boring grappling sports are viewed by fans in different parts of the world.
     
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  9. mataleaos

    mataleaos Purple Belt

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    For sure. And there are come cultural reasons why that is, but are the numbers huge? I mean Eddie Bravo wants grappling to be like mainstream America level popular. I respect that goal very much but I just don't think it's going to happen.

    I guess my larger point is less about the fact that more people can get interested in watching it, because I know that can happen. My point is more that I don't think a sport that is never going to be a major draw should change itself too much just to accomplish that goal. I think the rules should be improved for the athletes first, and if it allows for more spectators then that's great.

    I just think it's weird to take a fringe sport that even hardcore MMA fans don't enjoy and alter the rules to make it more palatable for people that don't even do the sport. I know a lot of hardcore MMA fans that don't train and outside of some rare matches like Tonon vs Palhares they don't really like watching grappling. They know about the DDS guys because of Joe Rogan and they know about Dillon Danis from Conor McGregor.
     
  10. yetanother

    yetanother Brown Belt

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    Muricans watch WWE which is the gayest and most stupid thing I have ever seen. Showing BJJ to people who don't train it seems bizarre (and maybe dangerous).
    They don't understand how leg locks work etc. And even I as brown belt who trains for IBJJF have a hard time judging how deep a lot of the footsies are.
     
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  11. kenetics

    kenetics Red Belt

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    I agree with everything you said. I do think that DJ Jackson would've of most likely beat Danzig. DJ has the style to beat him.
     
  12. mataleaos

    mataleaos Purple Belt

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    I assume you meant Diniz and not Mac Danzig lol ?

    I thought Diniz was on fire this weekend but DJ definitely does have a good style to win a tournament like Kasai. In a no-gi points tournament at his own weight I think DJ is a nightmare match up for basically everyone. I don't think I've ever seen a match where DJ got blown out.

    I'm not even talking by sub. Because I can't remember DJ getting subbed except maybe by Pena. But even by points. If he loses it's usually by an advantage or by 2. Bill Cooper had a sizeable point lead on DJ back in the day and went to play footsie and DJ actually heel hooked him. Bill is the only guy in no-gi that I've seen score double digit points on DJ.
     
  13. trustdoesntrust

    trustdoesntrust Purple Belt

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    I don't see DJ being able to take down Diniz
     
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  14. kenetics

    kenetics Red Belt

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    Ya. I think that match with Cooper was him trying new things. DJ has worked way better grapplers then Cooper.
     
  15. mataleaos

    mataleaos Purple Belt

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    Could be a style vs style thing where Coop's game just worked well. Also Coop is DJ's favorite grappler so it also could've been a little bit of being star struck since DJ I believe was a brand new black belt at the time and Coop wasn't out of his prime yet. DJ definitely has better wins but Coop is one of the best Americans to step on the mats. That was an impressive win from DJ.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
  16. kenetics

    kenetics Red Belt

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    Coop is actually half Mexican.
     
  17. trustdoesntrust

    trustdoesntrust Purple Belt

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    A big thing that stuck out to me was that "IBJJF guys" Aj Agazarm and Mike Perez both had a heel hook-first gameplan. This is a good indicator that major gyms are now fully training the modern leglock game (as opposed to just how to defend against heel hooks). I also noticed one brief moment where Canuto escaped a leg entanglement then went for the famous Felipe Pena berimbolo counter from his matches vs. Gordon Ryan, before hestitating and bailing on the move.

    With so many alt-ruleset events like Kasai now on the calendar, we may be entering a new period where modern leglocking is no longer proprietary knowledge.
     
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  18. mataleaos

    mataleaos Purple Belt

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    Yeah I think we are entering that time period too. By the end of this year I think they're going to be well ingrained with a lot of the ibjjf crowd. This is just an anecdote but a friend of mine competes in ibjjf all the time and rarely ever does no gi and he's been annoyed at this whole heel hook craze. He finally caved at the beginning of this year and decided he wanted to dive into learning heel hooks and he's having a blast with them right now.
     
  19. trustdoesntrust

    trustdoesntrust Purple Belt

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    it reminds me of when the berimbolo hit. You had the Mendes brothers (DDS) dominating with the bolo, and nobody could even grasp why it was so effective. You then had tons of imitators doing all-bolo games with less effectiveness (10th Planet), before guys like the Miyao brothers who were just as effective with a slightly different style (Craig Jones). Eventually, the berimbolo just became a standard part of the advanced curriculum at every gym, and as the general positional awareness improved, you saw the Mendes brothers move away from a berimbolo-centric game, and now a lot of gyms have melded the Berimbolo with the Truck and with lapel guards. I think we're starting to see this final parallel with leglocks, as DDS moves away from a leglock-centric game, and other gyms find ways to merge those modern leglocking positions with other attacks.
     
  20. mataleaos

    mataleaos Purple Belt

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    Yep. And it's happened with most major techniques that I can think of. From 2005-2008 if you knew the darce then you could basically tap everyone in the room. After 2007 everyone learned it and caught on and started being more careful with their underhooks. But it was common back then for guys to go into gyms and roll through the entire mat. Same thing happened with the high elbow guillotine after Marcelo Garcia, and earlier his arm drags to rear naked chokes.

    The berimbolo came about when the youtube bjj era exploded too and the berimbolo was everywhere for a couple of years. I remember entire pages on facebook and instagram dedicated to berimbolos.

    One thing I've noticed though is this heel hook craze has lasted longer than any of these previous crazes. I'm not sure why that is. I don't know if it's because there are still some people that can get away with not embracing it? The berimbolo was legal at all belts gi or no gi so I think everyone had to learn it and adapt faster maybe? With heel hooks they basically are always illegal in the gi and in no gi you can still get away with not knowing them up to a certain level?
     
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