Karate blocks against punches/weapons

[AndyMaBobs]

Oh fuck off already with your propaganda, you're the one advertising ranking in Muay Thai for fuck sake.

Rank? In Muay Thai.

Not in my America.

 

[AndyMaBobs]

LOL @ that picture implying that 2 time ADCC champion Jeff Monson is a master of nothing.

 

[panamaican]

Please give supporting evidence that Funakoshi fought and prevailed consistently.

Show them? You only know how to write and it shows nothing!
Read the book of Jon Bluming there you will have a surprise

you realize that the origins of karate pre-date Funakoshi right?
As mentioned before what documented evidence do you have of Kano ever fighting and winning, or are you just going based off of his book?

Karate's history predates Funikoshi and predates Japan. Funikoshi's teacher was a guy named Anko Itosu. He created the 5 initial kata, the Heians. Itosu's teacher was a guy named Matsumura Sōkon. Sokon was the main bodyguard to the King of Okinawa and his martial arts teacher.

It's highly unlikely the chief bodyguard to the king and his primary teacher didn't know how to actually fight. And early karate wasn't just hand to hand fighting, it involved learning multiple weapons as well.

When people think about karate as not having more combat experience, it's mostly because they're only thinking about the karate that ended up in Japan decades later. That karate wasn't as focused on combat as the Okinawan karate. But that lack of focus isn't because of the kata or even the kihon. It's because combat wasn't the focus in Japan, a country with plenty of it's own martial arts in grappling, striking, and weapons.

It's one more reason to not discard the core kata since they were designed around actual combat, unlike the culture that came later.

 

[JohnPJones]

Karate's history predates Funikoshi and predates Japan. Funikoshi's teacher was a guy named Anko Itosu. He created the 5 initial kata, the Heians. Itosu's teacher was a guy named Matsumura Sōkon. Sokon was the main bodyguard to the King of Okinawa and his martial arts teacher.

It's highly unlikely the chief bodyguard to the king and his primary teacher didn't know how to actually fight. And early karate wasn't just hand to hand fighting, it involved learning multiple weapons as well.

When people think about karate as not having more combat experience, it's mostly because they're only thinking about the karate that ended up in Japan decades later. That karate wasn't as focused on combat as the Okinawan karate. But that lack of focus isn't because of the kata or even the kihon. It's because combat wasn't the focus in Japan, a country with plenty of it's own martial arts in grappling, striking, and weapons.

It's one more reason to not discard the core kata since they were designed around actual combat, unlike the culture that came later.

just more UFC NPCs repeating what ever the line of the week is.

 

[FighterTwister]

I like to add to the discussion if I may, simply don't bother with roots and origins of either Japanese or Chinese Arts!

Its like a family business it gets split and passed down then split again over generations.

Like families they have feuds and divisions and only document what they wanted to be remembered or how the see best fit to record what they want.

Many have tried to unravel and puzzle together both Japanese and Chinese art roots some have even gone to the tenth degree, traveling and speaking to government officials.

But you see with the lack of social skills and education in those days only relying on scribes where clan wars between dojos and kwoons were highest you had corrupt government and rivalries between martial art leaders the whole thing is just a mess.

I actually believe there is recorded truth within government and related religious authorities of those days E.g. Shaolin and/or Shinto Temple.... but it is not made public in order to protect heritage (Shame / Dishonor) and family names $$$$$$$.

If you read about the culture of the day you will find betrayal was no stranger neither was envy of position and rank meaning status and wealth........murder and deceit were accompanied.

We can only guide some opinion by what we have now in history books but truth or facts are like searching for gold in the depths of the ocean............just to much to uncover.

Back in the 90's I spent weeks with a friend and some contacts discussing this some surprises made but generally to track the exact history its as thick as mud.

I had heaps of scanned documents I wish I had kept some of it, but through it all out when I got married.

You will find many sides to the stories and events or accounts then you will have to back track and search the actual Geo-locations, trace family trees etc... pfft.... forget it, trust me don't bother.

Beside Martial Arts now is all white washed and watered down in the attempt to do away with the vicious and animal life style that ancient martial art were in reality.

I'm so sick of this political correctness its killed everything!

 

[fighthug]

Karate's history predates Funikoshi and predates Japan. Funikoshi's teacher was a guy named Anko Itosu. He created the 5 initial kata, the Heians. Itosu's teacher was a guy named Matsumura Sōkon. Sokon was the main bodyguard to the King of Okinawa and his martial arts teacher.

It's highly unlikely the chief bodyguard to the king and his primary teacher didn't know how to actually fight. And early karate wasn't just hand to hand fighting, it involved learning multiple weapons as well.

When people think about karate as not having more combat experience, it's mostly because they're only thinking about the karate that ended up in Japan decades later. That karate wasn't as focused on combat as the Okinawan karate. But that lack of focus isn't because of the kata or even the kihon. It's because combat wasn't the focus in Japan, a country with plenty of it's own martial arts in grappling, striking, and weapons.

It's one more reason to not discard the core kata since they were designed around actual combat, unlike the culture that came later.

Is Karate Preceding Japan? Before Japan it would be before the Jomon Period that were the pmerces Japanese occupations. Before this period there was nothing either martial arts or weapons. Not even in Okinawa. Before this period the abitates of this place worked with stones. It was after that that they traded to use ceramics.
Another thing you quote a legend without any historical proof.
Kata have never been preparing for a real fight. If you force the fighters Karate and Kung Fu were the best in the world.
If you want to live in illusion the problem is not mine, this covers for me waxes here!

 

[panamaican]

Is Karate Preceding Japan? Before Japan it would be before the Jomon Period that were the pmerces Japanese occupations. Before this period there was nothing either martial arts or weapons. Not even in Okinawa. Before this period the abitates of this place worked with stones. It was after that that they traded to use ceramics.
Another thing you quote a legend without any historical proof.
Kata have never been preparing for a real fight. If you force the fighters Karate and Kung Fu were the best in the world.
If you want to live in illusion the problem is not mine, this covers for me waxes here!

Ok, you're right. There are no writings related to karate written by the Japanese based on information from Okinawa. Japan didn't conquer the Okinawa Islands and so had no first hand experience with whether or not the Okinawans could fight. The Okinawans didn't claim that many of their most important kata had origins in Chinese martial arts. And the Chinese certainly had no combat experience either.

Glad we've cleared that up.

 

[Hotora86]

Is Karate Preceding Japan? Before Japan it would be before the Jomon Period that were the pmerces Japanese occupations. Before this period there was nothing either martial arts or weapons. Not even in Okinawa. Before this period the abitates of this place worked with stones. It was after that that they traded to use ceramics.
Another thing you quote a legend without any historical proof.
Kata have never been preparing for a real fight. If you force the fighters Karate and Kung Fu were the best in the world.
If you want to live in illusion the problem is not mine, this covers for me waxes here!

Ok, you're right. There are no writings related to karate written by the Japanese based on information from Okinawa. Japan didn't conquer the Okinawa Islands and so had no first hand experience with whether or not the Okinawans could fight. The Okinawans didn't claim that many of their most important kata had origins in Chinese martial arts. And the Chinese certainly had no combat experience either.

Glad we've cleared that up.

@fighthug, you've totally convinced all of us.
Okinawans never fought anyone, even each other.
Karate was never used in actual combat, by anyone.
All stories about Karate people winning fights are fake.
All written evidence of Karate people winning fights are fake.
All modern video of Karate people winning fights are fake.
No fighter ever used any Karate techniques in ring or cage successfully.
That whole Machida winning a UFC belt story was totally fabricated.
GSP is a liar or getting paid by Kyokushin orgs to credit the art for his success.
Whittaker is getting paid by Goju orgs to say he uses that style.
Same shit with Wonderboy and many other so-called "Karateka" in kickboxing and MMA.

It's seriously frightening how the Karate propaganda has everyone fooled. They're like the new illuminati or something. No wonder you hate them so much. Keep spreading the truth but be careful - they might want to *eliminate you* to cover the conspiracy...

 

[JohnPJones]

@fighthug, you've totally convinced all of us.
Okinawans never fought anyone, even each other.
Karate was never used in actual combat, by anyone.
All stories about Karate people winning fights are fake.
All written evidence of Karate people winning fights are fake.
All modern video of Karate people winning fights are fake.
No fighter ever used any Karate techniques in ring or cage successfully.
That whole Machida winning a UFC belt story was totally fabricated.
GSP is a liar or getting paid by Kyokushin orgs to credit the art for his success.
Whittaker is getting paid by Goju orgs to say he uses that style.
Same shit with Wonderboy and many other so-called "Karateka" in kickboxing and MMA.

It's seriously frightening how the Karate propaganda has everyone fooled. They're like the new illuminati or something. No wonder you hate them so much. Keep spreading the truth but be careful - they might want to *eliminate you* to cover the conspiracy...

wish I could use emojis to laugh at this lol

 

[fighthug]

No you're distorting what I said. Or you have dyslexia and do not know how to interpret a text. I said that during the ORIGIN OF KARATE and not that ALL KARATE FIGHTERS HAD NOT HAD REAL COMBAT.
More in its origin the Karate did not have real combat. And real combat and the fight against other fighters like the Gracie did and not against fellow training and an endemic fight. Fight and Fight. Training and Training.

MMA fighter with LYOTO AND GPS fight another style like Boxing, Muaythai and Kickboxing and not just Karate. because if they did this they were knocked out in MMA event

 

[JohnPJones]

So karateka of the past fought, but that’s not combat origins?
You don’t think they integrated lessons learned in those fights?

Gracies engaged in sport via a style that had no combat in its origins...
Lyoto and other karateka cross trained because there are other things to be learned from other styles and philosophies...

 

[JohnPJones]

1. MT and karate share a lot of techniques. So how is MT more effective?
2. If the stories of karate teachers years ago don’t count as evidence of fighting origins, then please share proof that goes beyond written or oral history that BJJ, or really any style has origins in fighting.
3. Kickboxing has its origins in Japan mixing the one dimensional boxing with karate...so I guess karate must be pretty effective...

Kenshin Nasukawa makes karate seem pretty darn effective btw...

 

[JustOnce]

What karate style are you talking about?
Gichin Funakoshi never made a real fight?
Masutatsu Oyama fought only a few times and always with armed struggles.
In fights against another style and only history never with record of photos or videos.
Jon Blumming himself who was a student of Masutatsu Oyama revealed several of his lies in his book and interviews.

Like?

 

[JohnPJones]

Like?

don't ask for specifics or evidence you'll just anger him lol

recently read an interview with the head of ONE Championship, and this site was mentioned, and ya, guys like him are why the owner of ONE doesn't like US MMA, and to be honest is dudes like him are why i just stepped back out of the community.

 

[fighthug]

Brazilian Jiu Jitsu has a photo and video of comfort with another modality and history.

So with Muay Thai