Karate blackbelts in MMA

We'd have to find some interview where he mentions it or ask the man himself at this point.
Goals for 2017:
- ask Jerome Le Banner if his Karate black belt is legit... ;)
 
Goals for 2017:
- ask Jerome Le Banner if his Karate black belt is legit... ;)

I've sent a message on the contact form of his website. Let's see if I get an answer.
 
Why not? We got Goju-ryu guys here on the list and Goju is one of the main traditional Okinawan styles.
Gunnar Nelson, Edgelson Lua, Neil Grove are all Goju blackbelts.

Harold Howard (yeah the one from UFC 3) was 3rd dan in Goju. Didn't do that bad IMHO.

There's also Dyson Roberts who's only got a blue belt but his dojo (Daigaku Karate Kai) is very much MMA-oriented so I'd say it's worth more in MMA than many "traditional" blackbelts. And just look how proud he looks in that Karate gi after a win in MMA. :)
http://www.goju-karate.co.uk/index.php?page=dyson-roberts
http://www.tapology.com/fightcenter/fighters/16709-dyson-roberts

The two styles of Goju are weird. Okinawan has a stance more like kyokushin and then japanese looks like shotokan and for the life of me I can't figure out why.
 
The two styles of Goju are weird. Okinawan has a stance more like kyokushin and then japanese looks like shotokan and for the life of me I can't figure out why.
I've seen both variations and I'm guessing it's the tournament rules. If a given dojo is involved in tournaments with knockdown rules, the style tends to look more like Kyokushin, if the tournaments are point-kumite it's gonna look more like Shotokan.
 
The two styles of Goju are weird. Okinawan has a stance more like kyokushin and then japanese looks like shotokan and for the life of me I can't figure out why.

I've seen both variations and I'm guessing it's the tournament rules. If a given dojo is involved in tournaments with knockdown rules, the style tends to look more like Kyokushin, if the tournaments are point-kumite it's gonna look more like Shotokan.


Both styles of Goju developed separately from one another that's why there are differences between the two. Goju on mainland Japan developed through Gogen Yamaguchi. Goju on Okinawa developed through Chojun Miyagi (and his direct students). Chojun Miyagi only went a handful of times to mainland Japan during his life - as he hated travelling.

So Goju on Japan followed after whatever Gogen Yamaguchi taught - and seeing as he didn't really learn directly from Miyagi (from Murata - no-one can substantiate with evidence how much goju ryu experience he had & whether he did actually train for long enough with Miyagi) & had many other martial arts influences - hence Goju developed a bit differently to the version found in Okinawa.

I personally think as well that a lot of mainland karate styles were influenced by shotokan - as it was the first major style of Karate to break through on the mainland, had a lot of popularity & traction and grew to be the largest style in mainland Japan which obviously must have had an influence on Goju as well - especially with kumite & sports competition.
 
Both styles of Goju developed separately from one another that's why there are differences between the two. Goju on mainland Japan developed through Gogen Yamaguchi. Goju on Okinawa developed through Chojun Miyagi (and his direct students). Chojun Miyagi only went a handful of times to mainland Japan during his life - as he hated travelling.

So Goju on Japan followed after whatever Gogen Yamaguchi taught - and seeing as he didn't really learn directly from Miyagi (from Murata - no-one can substantiate with evidence how much goju ryu experience he had & whether he did actually train for long enough with Miyagi) & had many other martial arts influences - hence Goju developed a bit differently to the version found in Okinawa.

I personally think as well that a lot of mainland karate styles were influenced by shotokan - as it was the first major style of Karate to break through on the mainland, had a lot of popularity & traction and grew to be the largest style in mainland Japan which obviously must have had an influence on Goju as well - especially with kumite & sports competition.
Great post, thank you @Azam.

As a bonus for those with a lot of patience and too much spare time - a Black Belt Magazine article about Gogen Yamaguchi and his Goju-ryu style:
https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=I9IDAAAAMBAJ&pg=PA70#v=onepage&q&f=false

Takeo Maruta (Gogen's first sensei) is indeed a mysterious character, there is virtually no information about him anywhere.

EDIT: ooh, and a documentary! :)

 
What about Thanh Le? He not only has a background but he also uses it a lot. He was in the Ultimate Fighter and he pretty had the best striking on the show but his jiu-jitsu was terrible. Almost like dark ages mma from the early 90's. IF he gets his jiu-jitsu together, he could easily earn a UFC contract in the near future.



Also, Horiguchi is the man, future UFC champ. Actually uses Karate and was giving MM a tough fight standing and was beaten in the grappling department.
 
^^
He does tkd.

Horiguchi has the potential to be a future UFC champ - still young and if he keeps his effort/work rate consistent - he should get there. It's great to see another pretty pure karate stylist at a lower weight division.
 
What about Thanh Le? He not only has a background but he also uses it a lot. He was in the Ultimate Fighter and he pretty had the best striking on the show but his jiu-jitsu was terrible. Almost like dark ages mma from the early 90's. IF he gets his jiu-jitsu together, he could easily earn a UFC contract in the near future.



Also, Horiguchi is the man, future UFC champ. Actually uses Karate and was giving MM a tough fight standing and was beaten in the grappling department.

Thanks for the awesome clip, unfortunately (for the list), Le has no Karate background, he's 5th degree black belt in TKD though and looks damn amazing with that speed and precision!

Here's a nice long interview with Le:
http://itsajitslife.com/thanh-le-ready-war-april-5th-interview-upcoming-fight-mma-career/
 
^^
He does tkd.

Horiguchi has the potential to be a future UFC champ - still young and if he keeps his effort/work rate consistent - he should get there. It's great to see another pretty pure karate stylist at a lower weight division.
Wish him all the best. His gyaku-tsuki is a killer.

tumblr_mf7c1dGXyp1ry1rm7o1_400.gif
 
Good thread guys.

I'm not sure but I think Horiguchi's style is Japanese Bogu Karate which is practiced strictly for sport competition. I base that on watching a small piece on him on Fightland in which he says that he trained in "Sport Karate" and they showed footage of him and others sparring with the Kendo armor. It's also somewhat evident by his fighting stance and footwork both of which look sport Shotokanesque to me.

Something else I want to say is that I think practitioners of TaeKwonDo and definitely Tang Soo Do should be included on this list since Japanese Karate had a nice sized influence over the birth and development of both arts (in spite of what some elitists or nationalists may claim).

Lastly, Shidokan as practiced in the U.S. is referred to as the Triathlon of Martial Arts because they train knockdown Karate, kickboxing and submission wrestling and compete in all three phases separately in their competitions here (hence the triathlon mark). Quite well rounded imo. I hope the day comes soon when a serious Shidokan bad ass makes his way to the UFC and murk everyone in his division.
 
Good thread guys.

I'm not sure but I think Horiguchi's style is Japanese Bogu Karate which is practiced strictly for sport competition. I base that on watching a small piece on him on Fightland in which he says that he trained in "Sport Karate" and they showed footage of him and others sparring with the Kendo armor. It's also somewhat evident by his fighting stance and footwork both of which look sport Shotokanesque to me.

Something else I want to say is that I think practitioners of TaeKwonDo and definitely Tang Soo Do should be included on this list since Japanese Karate had a nice sized influence over the birth and development of both arts (in spite of what some elitists or nationalists may claim).

Lastly, Shidokan as practiced in the U.S. is referred to as the Triathlon of Martial Arts because they train knockdown Karate, kickboxing and submission wrestling and compete in all three phases separately in their competitions here (hence the triathlon mark). Quite well rounded imo. I hope the day comes soon when a serious Shidokan bad ass makes his way to the UFC and murk everyone in his division.
I would agree with Tang soo Do. I trained under a korean and he called it "korean karate." I'm not sure about TKD though. Those guys are proud and the art is different enough.
 
Please don't include Tang Soo Do and Tae Kwon Do practitioners in the Karate blackbelts list.
 
Please don't include Tang Soo Do and Tae Kwon Do practitioners in the Karate blackbelts list.

At the very least Tang Soo Do should be included. It's essentially "Korean Shotokan". TSD is widely labeled as Korean Karate by a lot of people including those who practice that art, hence the use of the term by Jimmy H's former Korean Instructor.
 
At the very least Tang Soo Do should be included. It's essentially "Korean Shotokan". TSD is widely labeled as Korean Karate by a lot of people including those who practice that art, hence the use of the term by Jimmy H's former Korean Instructor.
haha yes it is so much like shotokan. I had this korean mma guy tell me that tkd and tsd came from okinawan karate and couldnt help myself but correct him. I know why they say that tho, because they don't want to awknowledge its japanese origins.
 
haha yes it is so much like shotokan. I had this korean mma guy tell me that tkd and tsd came from okinawan karate and couldnt help myself but correct him. I know why they say that tho, because they don't want to awknowledge its japanese origins.

Yep, the late Wang Kee (the man who founded TSD) studied books and manuals on Shotokan Karate and a handful of other Japanese styles. But it's said that he made the heaviest uses out of all of Gichin Funakoshi's written materials that he left behind. TSD and Shotokan Karate are virtually identical. Almost nothing was changed.

Something else that many people may find kind of interesting is that Tang Soo Do in Korean means the same thing as what Karatedo originally meant in Japanese which is "Way of the China Hand".
 
Tang Soo Do isn't just Shotokan Karate, it has origins from old Korean martial arts like Subak and Taekkyeon. Please keep the Karate Blackbelts list to Karateka.

Also maybe it varies from to place, but a colleague took me to a Tang Soo Do class in London it was nothing like the Shotokan I trained for several years.
 
Tang Soo Do isn't just Shotokan Karate, it has origins from old Korean martial arts like Subak and Taekkyeon. Please keep the Karate Blackbelts list to Karateka.

Also maybe it varies from to place, but a colleague took me to a Tang Soo Do class in London it was nothing like the Shotokan I trained for several years.
how was it different?
 
Good thread guys.

I'm not sure but I think Horiguchi's style is Japanese Bogu Karate which is practiced strictly for sport competition. I base that on watching a small piece on him on Fightland in which he says that he trained in "Sport Karate" and they showed footage of him and others sparring with the Kendo armor. It's also somewhat evident by his fighting stance and footwork both of which look sport Shotokanesque to me.

Something else I want to say is that I think practitioners of TaeKwonDo and definitely Tang Soo Do should be included on this list since Japanese Karate had a nice sized influence over the birth and development of both arts (in spite of what some elitists or nationalists may claim).

Lastly, Shidokan as practiced in the U.S. is referred to as the Triathlon of Martial Arts because they train knockdown Karate, kickboxing and submission wrestling and compete in all three phases separately in their competitions here (hence the triathlon mark). Quite well rounded imo. I hope the day comes soon when a serious Shidokan bad ass makes his way to the UFC and murk everyone in his division.
Thanks @AshiharaFan, I hope it reaches 50 pages someday, like my old "30 Successful Karate Fighters in MMA" thread. :)

I can't find any source for Horiguchi's style though I've tried. I'll keep it as "unknown" until something specific comes up but thanks for that extra insight.

TKD is definitely its own thing and sherdoggers would rip me a new one if I included TKD guys on the list. I'd be more than happy if my thread inspired some TKD fan to make his own list and I'd try to help out but I'm not gonna do it myself.

TSD is similar and was indeed very much influenced by Karate but still, I don't think it really makes sense to add TSD guys. If I take that approach I might as well add American Kickboxing since it was also formed by blending Karate with another art (boxing). I'm not gonna go there.

BTW, you may notice some TKD and TSD practitioners on the list anyway, since it's not uncommon for ppl to cross-train those with Karate. Some examples of fighters with belts in both:
  • Bas Rutten
  • Karen Darabedyan
  • Lee Hasdell
As for Shidokan, I am familiar with the style and have 4 Shidokan guys on the list:
  • Cyrille Diabate
  • Kestutis Arbocius
  • Magdalena Jarecka
  • Shonie Carter
 

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