Karate blackbelts in MMA

[Jimmy Jazz]

I wonder if the okinawan style could work in mma?

 

[Hotora86]

JLB has never trained for his black belt in kyokushin. He was given it by Bluming, who handed black belts out as candy to anyone he knew who was successful in combat sports. It is a honorary belt in all but name.

Oh wow, never knew that!
You got any links / background story you can share?
Do You think I should remove him from the list then?

 

[Hotora86]

I wonder if the okinawan style could work in mma?

Why not? We got Goju-ryu guys here on the list and Goju is one of the main traditional Okinawan styles.
Gunnar Nelson, Edgelson Lua, Neil Grove are all Goju blackbelts.

Harold Howard (yeah the one from UFC 3) was 3rd dan in Goju. Didn't do that bad IMHO.

There's also Dyson Roberts who's only got a blue belt but his dojo (Daigaku Karate Kai) is very much MMA-oriented so I'd say it's worth more in MMA than many "traditional" blackbelts. And just look how proud he looks in that Karate gi after a win in MMA.
http://www.goju-karate.co.uk/index.php?page=dyson-roberts
http://www.tapology.com/fightcenter/fighters/16709-dyson-roberts

 

[Jimmy Jazz]

Why not? We got Goju-ryu guys here on the list and Goju is one of the main traditional Okinawan styles.
Gunnar Nelson, Edgelson Lua, Neil Grove are all Goju blackbelts.

Harold Howard (yeah the one from UFC 3) was 3rd dan in Goju. Didn't do that bad IMHO.

There's also Dyson Roberts who's only got a blue belt but his dojo (Daigaku Karate Kai) is very much MMA-oriented so I'd say it's worth more in MMA than many "traditional" blackbelts. And just look how proud he looks in that Karate gi after a win in MMA.
http://www.goju-karate.co.uk/index.php?page=dyson-roberts
http://www.tapology.com/fightcenter/fighters/16709-dyson-roberts

yeah but Gunnar is a japanese goju guy I believe. Goju i believe added the high kicks when it became Japanese, and then it became more like shotokan, stopping the in fighting and cat stance the okinawans used.

 

[Hotora86]

I wonder if the okinawan style could work in mma?

Here's some more Okinawan style fighters:
NAME SURNAME - STYLE - RANK
Brian Rogers - Isshin - brown
Jesse Bongfeldt - Isshin - brown
Mike Ciesnolevicz - Shorin - 1dan
Pat Miletich - Shuri - 3dan
Gustavo Sampaio - Uechi - 5dan

 

[shinkyoku]

Oh wow, never knew that!
You got any links / background story you can share?
Do You think I should remove him from the list then?

That would probably be best. Bluming also gave kyokushin blackbelts to chuck norris, ernesto hoost and a bunch of people who probably have no clue that they "have" a kyokushin blackbelt.
Not to mention that he gave surprise dan promotions to people who already had genuine kyokushin degrees in other, larger, kyokushin organizations. Not always a welcome promotion.
His organization produced several top fighters (not all trained by him in person) especially in holland, but the above practice muddles things up quite a lot of who actually trained and who was handed a belt for walking past him.

 

[Hotora86]

That would probably be best. Bluming also gave kyokushin blackbelts to chuck norris, ernesto hoost and a bunch of people who probably have no clue that they "have" a kyokushin blackbelt.
Not to mention that he gave surprise dan promotions to people who already had genuine kyokushin degrees in other, larger, kyokushin organizations. Not always a welcome promotion.
His organization produced several top fighters (not all trained by him in person) especially in holland, but the above practice muddles things up quite a lot of who actually trained and who was handed a belt for walking past him.

OK, you convinced me, JLB removed, though I searched the net and can't really find anything concrete about the belt "gifts" by Bluming. If you happen to have any legit links, please share. Thanks.

 

[Tayski]

JLB has never trained for his black belt in kyokushin. He was given it by Bluming, who handed black belts out as candy to anyone he knew who was successful in combat sports. It is a honorary belt in all but name.

He did train Kyokushin when he was a teenager for some time. Don't know how and when he got his black belt, but he did train in Kyokushin for a little while.

 

[Hotora86]

He did train Kyokushin when he was a teenager for some time. Don't know how and when he got his black belt, but he did train in Kyokushin for a little while.

This convo needs more "sauce", if you know what I mean. ;]

 

[Hotora86]

BELLATOR 170: two more wins for Karate!

Hisaki Kato beats previously undefeated Ralek Gracie by Unanimous Decision.
AND
Chinzo Machida knocks out previously undefeated Jamar Ocampo!

Look at that perfect technique!
And a respectful bow, how classy.

 

[Tayski]

This convo needs more "sauce", if you know what I mean. ;]

Well I can provide some sources where he says he trained in Karate from age 14 until he started competing in Kickboxing at 18.

From his own website:

"Jérôme was 14 when he discovered a movie and an actor that would have a considerable influence on his life; it was indeed after watching Bruce Lee's Fist of Fury that LeBanner enrolled in karate classes, as he wanted to follow the footsteps of the man who became his role model. Young Le Banner devoured books and magazines dedicated to the Little Dragon, even putting his power hand in the lead as teached in Jet Kun Do, Bruce Lee's own fighting style. Even today Jérôme has kept his characteristic southpaw stance while he's naturally right handed."

http://www.lebannerofficial.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id=4&Itemid=29&lang=en

From the horse's mouth:


He's saying he started Judo at 6 as his mum was against boxing, then at 14 when he saw Bruce Lee he decided to do Karate instead, and then at 18 he started American style Kickboxing.

Another video where he says pretty much the same thing but in English:


Other sites:

"When he was fourteen, Bruce Lee's Fist of Fury influenced him so much that he became interested in striking instead and started trying to incorporate the techniques of Jeet Kune Do he had seen in the film. At sixteen however he started practicing kyokushin, while Jeet Kune Do gave him the southpaw stance which he has maintained throughout his career, even though he is right-handed. He eventually took up kickboxing at age of 18. Le Banner holds a black belt in the Kyokushin Kaikan style of karate and in judo."

https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Jerome Le Banner&item_type=topic

"Jerome Le Banner was born in the French city of Le Havre, in the region of Normandy and began training in judo at the age of five. When he was sixteen, Bruce Lee's Fist of Fury influenced him so much that he started practicing kyokushin instead, while trying to incorporate the techniques of Jeet Kune Do he had seen in the film. Jeet Kune Do gave him the southpaw stance which he has maintained throughout his career, even though he is right-handed. He eventually took up Kickboxing at age of 18."

https://alchetron.com/Jerome-Le-Banner-707159-W

"When he was sixteen, Bruce Lee's Fist of Fury influenced him so much that he started practicing kyokushin instead, while trying to incorporate the techniques of Jeet Kune Do he had seen in the film."

http://www.hofsplit.com/en/members/17-2015/110-jerome-le-banner-france.html?tmpl=component;

 

[Hotora86]

Well I can provide some sources where he says he trained in Karate from age 14 until he started competing in Kickboxing at 18.

From his own website:

"Jérôme was 14 when he discovered a movie and an actor that would have a considerable influence on his life; it was indeed after watching Bruce Lee's Fist of Fury that LeBanner enrolled in karate classes, as he wanted to follow the footsteps of the man who became his role model. Young Le Banner devoured books and magazines dedicated to the Little Dragon, even putting his power hand in the lead as teached in Jet Kun Do, Bruce Lee's own fighting style. Even today Jérôme has kept his characteristic southpaw stance while he's naturally right handed."

http://www.lebannerofficial.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=section&id=4&Itemid=29&lang=en

From the horse's mouth:


He's saying he started Judo at 6 as his mum was against boxing, then at 14 when he saw Bruce Lee he decided to do Karate instead, and then at 18 he started American style Kickboxing.

Another video where he says pretty much the same thing but in English:


Other sites:

"When he was fourteen, Bruce Lee's Fist of Fury influenced him so much that he became interested in striking instead and started trying to incorporate the techniques of Jeet Kune Do he had seen in the film. At sixteen however he started practicing kyokushin, while Jeet Kune Do gave him the southpaw stance which he has maintained throughout his career, even though he is right-handed. He eventually took up kickboxing at age of 18. Le Banner holds a black belt in the Kyokushin Kaikan style of karate and in judo."

https://www.revolvy.com/main/index.php?s=Jerome Le Banner&item_type=topic

"Jerome Le Banner was born in the French city of Le Havre, in the region of Normandy and began training in judo at the age of five. When he was sixteen, Bruce Lee's Fist of Fury influenced him so much that he started practicing kyokushin instead, while trying to incorporate the techniques of Jeet Kune Do he had seen in the film. Jeet Kune Do gave him the southpaw stance which he has maintained throughout his career, even though he is right-handed. He eventually took up Kickboxing at age of 18."

https://alchetron.com/Jerome-Le-Banner-707159-W

"When he was sixteen, Bruce Lee's Fist of Fury influenced him so much that he started practicing kyokushin instead, while trying to incorporate the techniques of Jeet Kune Do he had seen in the film."

http://www.hofsplit.com/en/members/17-2015/110-jerome-le-banner-france.html?tmpl=component;

Thanks a lot for the research @Tayski!
Do you think it's realistic to assume he got to black belt in 4 years (between ages 14 and 18)?

 

[Tayski]

BTW I also had a video tape of him explaining how he trains, where his style comes from etc. It was on French TV like 15 years ago or so and I recorded it on tape. The tape is still in France (I'm in the UK now). I'll try to find it and upload it on youtube. He shows around his house and his home gym, explains a few techniques, and explains where he got his style from. He says he's a Southpaw even though he's actually right handed because he copied Bruce Lee and just got used to fighting in Southpaw, and that his arsenal of techniques is a blend of Kyokushin Karate that he learnt as a teen, Boxing that he learnt through his dad and then other coaches, American style kickboxing that he started when he was 18 copying the likes of Bill Wallace, and then later on some techniques from Muay Thai.

Thanks a lot for the research @Tayski!
Do you think it's realistic to assume he got to black belt in 4 years (between ages 14 and 18)?

It is not impossible especially if that's all you focus on for 4 years, some people have ranked to black belt in less than that but it's quite rare. Most of the time it takes longer than that though from white to black in Kyokushin. At the same time JLB is quite a specimen who was gifted physically and really passionate about his training so I wouldn't say it didn't happen for sure. But @shinkyoku says Jon Bluming gave him his black belt as a honorary black belt?

 

[Tayski]

The video was a bit like that, in his home but it was almost 2 hours long and he went through some instructionals:

 

[Hotora86]

It is not impossible especially if that's all you focus on for 4 years, some people have ranked to black belt in less than that but it's quite rare. Most of the time it takes longer than that though from white to black in Kyokushin. At the same time JLB is quite a specimen who was gifted physically and really passionate about his training so I wouldn't say it didn't happen for sure. But @shinkyoku says Jon Bluming gave him his black belt as a honorary black belt?

Thanks. Even if so, I'd still argue for his inclusion to my list if he indeed did Karate for 4 years non-stop and mentioned it as one of the foundations of his style.

 

[Tayski]

Thanks. Even if so, I'd still argue for his inclusion to my list if he indeed did Karate for 4 years non-stop and mentioned it as one of the foundations of his style.

Even if that's the case he wouldn't be the only fighter in your list who didn't genuinely pass the grading for their black belt.
I mean for example you have Gunnar Nelson as shodan in your list, while he's still only a brown belt in Gojo Ryu.

I'm pretty sure GSP's 3rd dan was also a honourably rank given by Matsui.

 

[Hotora86]

Even if that's the case he wouldn't be the only fighter in your list who didn't genuinely pass the grading for their black belt.
I mean for example you have Gunnar Nelson as shodan in your list, while he's still only a brown belt in Gojo Ryu.

I'm pretty sure GSP's 3rd dan was also a honourably rank given by Matsui.

Crap, you're right! Damn it, Iceland, how does a guy win national titles in kumite 3 years in a row and doesn't get a black belt!

I'm gonna correct that but I'm keeping Gunnar. I mean, come on! His standup is Karate!

As for GSP, I'm pretty sure he got a legit black belt, even if the 3rd dan was a honorable rank.

 

[Hotora86]

I'm pretty sure GSP's 3rd dan was also a honourably rank given by Matsui.

Wiki says: "Turning pro at age of 21 he had a black belt in Kyokushin already."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Georges_St-Pierre#Background

 

[shinkyoku]

It is not impossible especially if that's all you focus on for 4 years, some people have ranked to black belt in less than that but it's quite rare. Most of the time it takes longer than that though from white to black in Kyokushin. At the same time JLB is quite a specimen who was gifted physically and really passionate about his training so I wouldn't say it didn't happen for sure. But @shinkyoku says Jon Bluming gave him his black belt as a honorary black belt?

No. Thats the trouble. Bluming does not give out "honorary" belts and honorary grades. He hands out belts and grades -same as if the receiver had trained 15 years for it and gone through a examination test. So if JLB trained as a youth (which I was not aware off), what grade did he get then?

 

[Tayski]

So if JLB trained as a youth (which I was not aware off), what grade did he get then?

We'd have to find some interview where he mentions it or ask the man himself at this point.