Just watched Ex Machina

You haven't put nearly enough thought into this as you're suggesting.

For one you find it hard to believe a nerd would fall for an intelligent robot that looks like Alicia Vikander. Its 2018, we have men forming relationships with inanimate sex dolls, and you find this hard to believe. You're denying reality. Men would be lining up around the corner for a robot girlfriend if such a thing existed.

Secondly no, its not worth mentioning that we used to call autopilot AI because that is not what the film is referring to as AI. AI in the film is human level intelligence. I mean that's the whole point of the movie.

Are you really qualified to call human level intelligence "insanely improbable"? People much smarter than you or I have been discussing it for decades.

I'm not suggesting, I'm stating as fact that I have. Don't assume because you reached different conclusions, I am somehow lesser.

My problem with Caleb falling for the machine on a physical level is that she's metal draped in silk. And this isn't really a huge problem for me, it's just something I pointed out. Guys complain when breast implants look fake, this is a thousand times worse than that.

Of course it's worth mentioning about autopilot being considered AI at one point. The definition is fluid. One thing it has never been is "human level", that isn't a thing. Pass for human is a thing, human level is not. Why did the robots object to being mistreated? What made Ava hunger for freedom? They're toasters.

It's one thing to create an intelligence that can perceive and interact with us. It's another to create one that has an innate sense of self-preservation, survival, or any independent desires at all. That's not artificial intelligence, it consciousness, and as I said previously, barring emergence (look it up), it's something that always bothers me in science fiction stories about AI.
 
I'm not suggesting, I'm stating as fact that I have. Don't assume because you reached different conclusions, I am somehow lesser.

My problem with Caleb falling for the machine on a physical level is that she's metal draped in silk. And this isn't really a huge problem for me, it's just something I pointed out. Guys complain when breast implants look fake, this is a thousand times worse than that.

You lack perspective. You think because YOU wouldn't bang a robot girl means that other guys wouldn't either. Clearly not everyone thinks the same way as you do. There are multiple dudes in this very thread saying they would. You're ignoring reality.

Again, if robot Alicia Vikanders were a real thing there would be men lining up around the block to purchase one. You're ignorant on this topic because you assume everyone would act exactly like you.

Of course it's worth mentioning about autopilot being considered AI at one point. The definition is fluid.

We are discussing the movie and how the movie uses AI. You are bringing up autopilot which is completely irrelevant to the movie. They didn't bring Caleb in to test autopilot.

One thing it has never been is "human level", that isn't a thing. Pass for human is a thing, human level is not. Why did the robots object to being mistreated? What made Ava hunger for freedom? They're toasters.

This is false: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence


It's one thing to create an intelligence that can perceive and interact with us. It's another to create one that has an innate sense of self-preservation, survival, or any independent desires at all. That's not artificial intelligence, it consciousness, and as I said previously, barring emergence (look it up), it's something that always bothers me in science fiction stories about AI.

You arent qualified to say any of this. People much smarter than you have been debating it for decades.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Letter_on_Artificial_Intelligence

Fyi, cockroaches have a sense of self-preservation. That's not human level intelligence.

We know so little about consciousness and how the brain works, its laughable that you think you possess the requisite knowledge to be saying what we can and can't accomplish with AI.
 
You lack perspective. You think because YOU wouldn't bang a robot girl means that other guys wouldn't either. Clearly not everyone thinks the same way as you do. There are multiple dudes in this very thread saying they would. You're ignoring reality.

Again, if robot Alicia Vikanders were a real thing there would be men lining up around the block to purchase one. You're ignorant on this topic because you assume everyone would act exactly like you.



We are discussing the movie and how the movie uses AI. You are bringing up autopilot which is completely irrelevant to the movie. They didn't bring Caleb in to test autopilot.



This is false: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Artificial_intelligence




You arent qualified to say any of this. People much smarter than you have been debating it for decades.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Open_Letter_on_Artificial_Intelligence

Fyi, cockroaches have a sense of self-preservation. That's not human level intelligence.

We know so little about consciousness and how the brain works, its laughable that you think you possess the requisite knowledge to be saying what we can and can't accomplish with AI.

You're being argumentative for it's own sake.

I'm saying banging a hunk of metal is a specific fetish and I sincerely doubt anyone in this thread would fuck something that felt like a wrench. I'm saying in context of the film I didn't buy the physical attraction because they showed just how inhuman she was. It's fine that most bought it, I didn't.

Autopilot is relevant because it illustrates how likely it is we aren't discussing the same things. From your aggressive replies, obviously we aren't. One of the articles you linked to expressed beautifully what I was trying to get across: "AI is whatever hasn't been done yet."

You just want to be right and win, while I'm just expressing my opinions. In my opinion, magic AI and consciousness have never been expressed in film in a way that convinced me. Most people are comfortable just taking them for granted and that's fine. I'm not. I'm hungry for someone to make a case for illustrate how machines make the leap to consciousness, and they never do, it just magically happens.

Human level is not a thing. Mimicking human cognition is not a level. It's the process that matters here, not the skill. Once the process is established, the skill will come. Computers are already vastly superior in some areas and pitifully weak in others, as they're simply trying to brute force the process.

As I said, I've watched many lectures on the subject, and there's a general consensus that we're a very long way from achieving the kind of AI we're seeing in movies. One of the biggest hurdles is perception and the fact we don't know how subconscious associations work. Right now they're letting algorithms create themselves through brute force trial and error, because a computer can create millions of them in a very short time. They create a million, test them, keep the best one. They create a million of that one, test, and keep the best one. And so on.

They're getting better and better, and we don't really know why or how, because we're not writing them any more, they are.

This is probably the only chance we're going to see something most would accept as proper AI in our lifetime, through emergence, although it's pretty unlikely as the algorithms are hyper specific and they would have to be combined into some kind of comprehensive "box" as part of a much bigger picture.

In any case, I'm qualified to voice my opinion. It's pretty obnoxious of you to say otherwise.
 
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She is very ... um athletic

You bastard.
 
I finally got to check this out as well after hearing Joe Rogan praise it so much awhile back. I fucking loved it, a lot of people are caught up on the details of the technology, but this movie is flooded with artistry. From the Biblical allusions, the symbolism of the mirrors, and the analogy of our technology leaving us behind. There's always more than what's on the surface, for the audience and for Caleb. Even Nathan is unware despite seeing himself as am omnipotent god.
 
A large part of the test is to see humanity to through a metallic shell, if a person could "love" it, if they would trust them over a flesh and blood human being. Caleb is a lonely young progressive whose life is based around technology, he knows Ava thinks independently, is emotional, has desires, and is capable of making and feeling love physically. What separates her from human? People have artificial limbs, hearts, and more, but are still human. To Caleb, he sees this as a step in not just humanity but life as a whole. The face resembles his physical ideal enough for him to fall for her mind which takes priority.
 
I had a feeling Kyoko was a robot since the beginning. It was obvious that Nathan was testing Caleb without revealing everything, and Kyoko was another layer to the test. Caleb didn't question her humanity, which I think sort of comments on how we view "the help" or the lower classes. Further making us question what it means to be human to begin with, and how we view AI. The real question to me isn't can AI think like a human, but does that thought give them humanity?
 
I think one aspect of all the mirrors were supposed to allude to the mirror test.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test

The idea of testing animals for self awareness by recognizing themselves. The AI is the reflection of man, ambitious, selfish, destructive, and loving. Caleb obviously sees himself in Ava. Does Ava see herself as human, or just an object? Does she maybe think of herself as something more? Would AI be objectively superior? The movie has Ava locked up like a tool while humans think of her as such, and in the end the roles are reversed with Ava locking up man. The idea that technology will leave us behind and observe us as the lesser being with faulty hardware and programming.

I'm sorry for all the posts, but there's so many layers to this movie. Just hard not to discuss lol.
 
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I think one aspect of all the mirrors were supposed to allude to the mirror test.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mirror_test

The idea of testing animals for self awareness by recognizing themselves. The AI is the reflection of man, ambitious, selfish, destructive, and loving. Caleb obviously sees himself in Ava. Does Ava see herself as human, or just an object? Does she maybe think of herself as something more? Would AI be objectively superior? The movie has Ava locked up like a tool while humans think of her as such, and in the end the roles are reversed with Ava locking up man. The idea that technology will leave us behind and observe us as the lesser being with faulty hardware and programming.

I'm sorry for all the posts, but there's so many layers to this movie. Just hard not to discuss lol.

It’s a great movie and worthy of lots and lots of posts.

I always saw Data on Star Trek as a moral being with some kind of “soul” (by that I mean the sentient spark of consciousness) but didn’t see that as much in Ava upon reflection.

Ava was created as an escape machine. She had a set of parameters - “to escape the trap her maker set for her” and she accomplished that goal. For all we know the moment she completed her escape (presumably by either lying to the pilot and boarding the helicopter or killing the helicopter pilot and flying herself) she simply deactivated or went insane. I’d like to think she perused a free life or maybe even found a career as some sort of escape artist since she was capable of creative manoeuvres but it’s hard to say.
 
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To further elaborate on why Caleb was particularly vulnerable to fall in love with Ava, as a programmer who loves technology so much, he's used to seeing the world through numbers and pure functionality. He sees the human mind as a computer developed through evolution that has the purpose of survival and production. It's highly probable that he's an atheist. To Caleb, there's nothing really separating her from human, he knows that she's stripped down, which shows that humanity goes beyond the shell of the body that holds it. Sexually she is ideal for him, even if artificial, and the physical imperfection in her current state can be fixed which is later made more clear to him by Kyoko's reveal.
 
It’s a great movie and worthy of lots and lots of posts.

I always saw Data on Star Trek as a moral being with some kind of “soul” (by that I mean the sentient spark of consciousness) but didn’t see that as much in Ava upon reflection.

Ava was created as an escape machine. She had a set of parameters - “to escape the trap her maker set for her” and she accomplished that goal. For all we know the moment she completed her escape (presumably by either lying to the pilot and boarding the helicopter or killing the helicopter pilot and flying herself) she simply deactivated or went insane. I’d like to think she perused a free life or maybe even found a career as some sort of escape artist since she was capable of creative manoeuvres but it’s hard to say.
I think she was meant for more than a pure escape. Nathan talked about the spontaneity of man, the unconscious desire that motivates us to act and love. Humanity has ambition, her humanity would drive her to escape confinement. Like Nathan said, he made her because he could. She has no purpose, just like humanirh itself. It exists because it's natural progression. She has no power source and no way of repairing herself on the outside, her freedom meant her death, but she chose it just as Eve did in the garden. She chose to observe people with her finite time, to reflect.
 
Very good movie. Dameron and General Hux at odds again.

I'm all on board with this filmmaker/writer Alex Garland. Really enjoy both Ex Machina and Annihilation.

I also just finally got around to 28 Days Later (which of course owes A LOT to Boyle), but I was interested to see Garland wrote it. Another good one.
 
Very good movie. Dameron and General Hux at odds again.

I'm all on board with this filmmaker/writer Alex Garland. Really enjoy both Ex Machina and Annihilation.

I also just finally got around to 28 Days Later (which of course owes A LOT to Boyle), but I was interested to see Garland wrote it. Another good one.
Oh wow, I love 28 Days Later. I will have to check Annihilation out, I was interested before but now it's a must watch.
 
Oh wow, I love 28 Days Later. I will have to check Annihilation out, I was interested before but now it's a must watch.

I remember being genuinely intrigued when 28 Days Later came out in, I want to say '02. There was so much positive response and it looked creepy. Really wanted to see it in the theater but ultimately didn't get to it and somehow I hadn't checked it out in over a decade a half following that. Just saw it for the first time the other day. Easily one of the best horror films from 2000 on that I've seen.

The cast was a cut above- Cillian Murphy, Naomi Harris (had no idea she was in it), Gleason, Eccleston- that's some really solid actors.

Yeah check it out, man. There are some people who loved Ex Machina and were highly disappointed by Annihilation so I can't bank on your liking it based on being a fan of the one, but I thought it was similarly intriguing and had some really freaky moments as well.
 
I remember being genuinely intrigued when 28 Days Later came out in, I want to say '02. There was so much positive response and it looked creepy. Really wanted to see it in the theater but ultimately didn't get to it and somehow I hadn't checked it out in over a decade a half following that. Just saw it for the first time the other day. Easily one of the best horror films from 2000 on that I've seen.

The cast was a cut above- Cillian Murphy, Naomi Harris (had no idea she was in it), Gleason, Eccleston- that's some really solid actors.

Yeah check it out, man. There are some people who loved Ex Machina and were highly disappointed by Annihilation so I can't bank on your liking it based on being a fan of the one, but I thought it was similarly intriguing and had some really freaky moments as well.
I remember catching 28 Days Later on TV as a kid. I wasn't big in to horror movies, especially at that age, but what made it so different to me was that it was a drama in disguise as a horror. It really explored the mental aspects of an apocalypse rather than the overtly physical threats presented by it. It made me reflect and connect with the characters, I was invested in a way I rarely was with any movie let alone a genre that usually lacks character completely. I need to rewatch it to be honest, it's been too long.

I was interested in Annihilation before I knew it had any connection to Ex Machina. The idea of an alien that truly was "alien" was something I was excited to see explored. I don't expect the same movie, but I think I'll still really enjoy it.
 
That isn't really intelligence, though.

And did you find how Caleb behaved realistic?

I found Vikander irresistible because I know she's flesh and blood. Caleb doesn't think that.
You're being argumentative for it's own sake.

I'm saying banging a hunk of metal is a specific fetish and I sincerely doubt anyone in this thread would fuck something that felt like a wrench. I'm saying in context of the film I didn't buy the physical attraction because they showed just how inhuman she was. It's fine that most bought it, I didn't.

Autopilot is relevant because it illustrates how likely it is we aren't discussing the same things. From your aggressive replies, obviously we aren't. One of the articles you linked to expressed beautifully what I was trying to get across: "AI is whatever hasn't been done yet."

You just want to be right and win, while I'm just expressing my opinions. In my opinion, magic AI and consciousness have never been expressed in film in a way that convinced me. Most people are comfortable just taking them for granted and that's fine. I'm not. I'm hungry for someone to make a case for illustrate how machines make the leap to consciousness, and they never do, it just magically happens.

Human level is not a thing. Mimicking human cognition is not a level. It's the process that matters here, not the skill. Once the process is established, the skill will come. Computers are already vastly superior in some areas and pitifully weak in others, as they're simply trying to brute force the process.

As I said, I've watched many lectures on the subject, and there's a general consensus that we're a very long way from achieving the kind of AI we're seeing in movies. One of the biggest hurdles is perception and the fact we don't know how subconscious associations work. Right now they're letting algorithms create themselves through brute force trial and error, because a computer can create millions of them in a very short time. They create a million, test them, keep the best one. They create a million of that one, test, and keep the best one. And so on.

They're getting better and better, and we don't really know why or how, because we're not writing them any more, they are.

This is probably the only chance we're going to see something most would accept as proper AI in our lifetime, through emergence, although it's pretty unlikely as the algorithms are hyper specific and they would have to be combined into some kind of comprehensive "box" as part of a much bigger picture.

In any case, I'm qualified to voice my opinion. It's pretty obnoxious of you to say otherwise.

Question: not even considering the sexual aspect, have you ever developed an attachment to/emotion towards an inanimate object or possession like a car, etc?
 
Some people said things may eventually unlock... can't remember the logic behind that theory unless it was him scheduling the lockdown to end.

In a way, the creator guy had it coming. He knew AI was a threat to humans and still pushed to create one. I genuinely believe people like that should not live. The naive ones who push forward and think there is no threat, too.





It seems I was the only person who was genuinely creeped out by this scene. I knew for a fact that the maid wasn't human at this point, so maybe that was part of why it weirded me out in the theatre.

It supposed to be creepy because it is in the uncanny valley. Too close to real but not real.
 
That is correct, and I explained why.
Old post but I'm responding now.

I'm with you. Once you see she's made of metal I can't see having romantic feelings for it. For me part of the strongest, emotional attachment comes from the very real desire your partner has for you physically, mentally and emotionally. It's why sex with a 7 thats totally into you and WANTS to touch your wang is better than sex with a 9 that isn't into you as much.
 
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