Just listen to your coach... mostly true, but not always.

[MuayThaiDude]

Have you ever had a coach tell you to do something a certain way and just feels wrong, but you do it anyway not to cause trouble?
One common theme I see among the threads deals with answering a poster's question with the time honored, "ask your coach." For the most part, yes this is good advice, but I have experienced MT coaches who teach in such a way that totally contradicts what another coach has taught. So whom do you listen to? Ask your coach... (sarcasm).
The problem, I believe, lies with less experienced coaching assistants doing the things that work for them, but not you, or they fear looking unknowledgeable so they wing it. This is a problem and you can only jump to so many gyms before you start looking like, "one of those guys" a "gym hopper."
I find that the best coaches for MT are those who have trained extensively in Thailand, teach the fundamentals ad nauseum, drill technique, but leave style and approach to you.
Examples:
I like to switch stances at times, mix it up. I get nailed for this by most.
I prefer a mixture of a v-block, parrying, philly shell, and crazy monkey... not a fan of column blocking or pure peek a boo when not on the ropes or in the corner.
I utilize a side thrust kick with the traditional teep. "cut out that TMA bullshit."
One coach tells me to pivot the foot on a hook, the other says NOT to do that because it's easier to get swept (WTH?)
One coach tells me to lift the leg up for a check after a full 360 rotation (missed roundhouse) another yells and says not to. "you'll get swept."
One says aim for the floating rib during a RH, the other says NO aim flush for the stomach...
I could go on and on. Have any of you folks experienced something similar?

 

[n.diazismylife1999]

Yes, seen a lot of contradictory advice. I usually try it the way that coach suggests and if I like it I keep it, if not, I don't.

Can't even keep track of how many things I've heard coaches say confidently that directly contradicts what some of the best fighters in the world do/say, and then some of those fighters say things that contradict what other fighters say, and so on. More than one way to skin a cat.

I think "listen to your coach" is good advice -- until you get to a certain level where you understand fighting and the body mechanics involved yourself. Then you can start picking and choosing. We live in an age where we've got unprecedented access to information; you can go online and see what the best in the world have to say on almost any given subject. Why would I take my coach's (contradictory) advice on the inverted guard when I can listen to Ryan Hall instead? So if you've got the intelligence to critically analyze what you read and see, you don't (and shouldn't) just blindly rely on what your coach tells you.

 

[j123]

As a beginner it does to a certain point for a technical and tactical standpoint. I will say, do not take S&C, and nutrition advice from them unless they have a background in those fields.

From my exp. I will listen to my coach for technical knowledge, tactics, but everything else I do on my own.
Before I put full faith in my coach for everything and the result is things ended up disastrous for me. S&C, dieting/nutrition is not the place for him. Also me being in the wrong weight class. He had me do low carbs, low fat for my diet (starvation keto diet essentially). My case, I do not do well on that, I function on a very high carb diet. Result of doing things like that I developed an eating disorder, and was binging 10k calories every other day after the fights. It was bad.
I'm 5'9 and for some reason he decided that I must fight at 140-145 otherwise I'd be "killed" against taller guys (even if its not much like 1"). He basically said: I want you at 140-145, and I don't want you water cutting more than 5lbs. Basically asking me to be at 150lbs so I can have a "height advantage". I asked to go higher since I know I'd be more comfortable, then he told me if I can beat the best guy who's about 6" then I can go higher.

For some reason I do not do well at that weight, I feel weak, lethargic, and sick. Quite a few times after my fights I ended up with bad diarrhea. I did a fight and 2 exhibitions at 155 and I feel thats a good class for me. I don't care if I have a slight height disadvantage, I've always done well competing against taller opponents, mentally I don't fare well against shorter pressure fighters. He's the opposite. There's no point on getting the height benefit if you're weak and worn out, compared to an opponent who may be regular sized but has good amount of muscle mass and can use it dominate to with it.

Long story short:
I lost alot of muscle (was told to go from 180 to 145 in 2 months), my metab maintenance (TDEE) dropped from 3000 to 2400 and I had to repair it by reserve dieting. It took me 1/2 a year to get my metab back to its peak. And with this entire year of lean bulking and strength training again, my strength is back to about 90% of what it was. I knew something was very wrong when I was benching 225 normally, but I could barely bench 135 after "proper dieting". He says "lifting weights" decreases metabolism (lol), if there's someone in my weight class who's 6'1 I'm screwed and have to diet down more to go to lower. I will now say, just because you can diet down to "make weight", does not mean its good for you. People who are imprisoned in concentration camps lose weight, but they sure as hell ain't in a good spot.

I'll compete again next year, and if I hear more ignorance and stubbornness to accept modern training methods, and scientific evidence, and I still really do want to compete, I'll have to find another gym with a coach who's more open minded. Or I compete independent. Its a shame though, I've been with the gym for awhile, I like the gym culture and environment, I'd hate to have to part with it.

Alot of muay thai coaches follow old school archaic mentality that ends up doing more harm than good in the long term. There's one here that's like the "father" to most MT gyms here (most gyms, here, the coaches are are former students of him, the Ajarn) that does ridiculous crap like making students do 500 pushups, running 6-10k 6 days a week. A few guys I know have shoulder issues now because of that style of training. One teammate of mine started having knee issues as well (running with that much volume, extreme caloric deficit, no strength development). The dr. said he had underdeveloped glutes and the strain was hurting his knee.

Everyone is different and unique, no one size fits all. Training, dieting, progression, etc is like a tailored suit, you can't take one off the shelf and assume its a perfect fit for everyone.

 

[MuayThaiDude]

As a beginner it does to a certain point for a technical and tactical standpoint. I will say, do not take S&C, and nutrition advice from them unless they have a background in those fields.

From my exp. I will listen to my coach for technical knowledge, tactics, but everything else I do on my own.
Before I put full faith in my coach for everything and the result is things ended up disastrous for me. S&C, dieting/nutrition is not the place for him. Also being in the wrong weight class. Had me do low carbs, low fat for my diet (starvation keto diet essentially). My case, I do not do well on that, I function on a very high carb diet. Result of doing things like that I developed an eating disorder, and was binging 10k calories every other day after the fights. It was bad.
I'm 5'9 and for some reason he decided that I must fight at 140-145 otherwise I'd be "killed" against taller guys (even if its not much like 1"). He basically said: I want you at 140-145, and I don't want you water cutting more than 5lbs. Basically asking me to be at 150lbs so I can have a "height advantage". I asked to go higher since I know I'd be more comfortable, then he told me if I can beat the best guy who's about 6" then I can go higher.

For some reason I do not do well at that weight, I feel weak, lethargic, and sick. Quite a few times after my fights I ended up with bad diarrhea. I did a fight and 2 exhibitions at 155 and I feel thats a good class for me. I don't care if I have a slight height disadvantage, I've always done well competing against taller opponents, mentally I don't fare well against shorter pressure fighters. He's the opposite. There's no point on getting the height benefit if you're weak and worn out, compared to an opponent who may be regular sized but has good amount of muscle mass and can use it dominate with it.

Long story short:
I lost alot of muscle (was told to go from 180 to 145 in 2 months), my metab maintenance (TDEE) dropped from 3000 to 2400 and I had to repair it by reserve dieting. It took me 1/2 a year to get my metab back to its peak. And with this year of lean bulking and strength training again, my strength is back to about 90% of what it was. I knew something was very wrong when I was benching 225 normally, but I could barely bench 135 after "proper dieting". He says "lifting weights" decreases metabolism (lol), if there's someone in my weight class who's 6'1 I'm screwed and have to diet down more to go to lower. I will now say, just because you can diet down to "make weight", does not mean its good for you. People who are imprisoned in concentration camp lose weight, but they sure as hell ain't in a good spot.

I'll compete again next year, and if I hear more ignorance and stubbornness to accept scientific methods, and I still really do want to compete, I'll have to find someone else with a coach who's more open minded. Or I go independent. Its a shame though, I've been with the gym for awhile, I like the gym culture and environment, I'd hate to have to part with it.

Alot of muay thai coaches follow old school archaic mentality that ends up doing more harm than good in the long term. There's one here that's like the "father" to most MT gyms here (most gyms, their students are former students of the Ajarn) that does ridiculous crap like making students do 500 pushups, running 6-10k 6 days a week. A few guys I know have shoulder issues now because of that style of training. One teammate of mine started having knee issues as well (running with that much volume, extreme caloric deficit, no strength development). The dr. said he had underdeveloped glutes and the strain was hurting his knee.

Holy crap man. That's intense! I can't believe he'd want you dropping that much weight. I have heard some crazy stuff as far as dieting too, but not on that level. I mean with me it's smokers and amateurs. I'm 40 so, pros is out of the question. No need to do crazy weight drops. I am 6 foot, wide frame and walk at around 210-215. I was told to drop to 185 a few years ago, which I did. Then didn't end up fighting because I was at a fight school and they had their stars to deal with, not some old fart amateur like me (understandable to be honest). But then he's like, "hey you should try dropping to 170." F that. I did lose a bit of fat but also lost quite a bit of strength.
The MT coaches who trained in Thailand were American born so that was good. Other coaches I ran into had never been there. Some didn't feel like actually instructing so we'd spend most of the class doing bullshit cardio routines, no pads, nada. If I wanted that I'd take Tai Bo.

 

[j123]

Holy crap man. That's intense! I can't believe he'd want you dropping that much weight. I have heard some crazy stuff as far as dieting too, but not on that level. I mean with me it's smokers and amateurs. I'm 40 so, pros is out of the question. No need to do crazy weight drops. I am 6 foot, wide frame and walk at around 210-215. I was told to drop to 185 a few years ago, which I did. Then didn't end up fighting because I was at a fight school and they had their stars to deal with, not some old fart amateur like me (understandable to be honest). But then he's like, "hey you should try dropping to 170." F that. I did lose a bit of fat but also lost quite a bit of strength.
The MT coaches who trained in Thailand were American born so that was good. Other coaches I ran into had never been there. Some didn't feel like actually instructing so we'd spend most of the class doing bullshit cardio routines, no pads, nada. If I wanted that I'd take Tai Bo.

Yeah no go on 170.
Like I said, just because you can diet down to that weight class doesn't mean its good for you. Some folks don't understand that making weight means maintaining your current muscle mass and strength while being able to hit the weight class (done with water manipulation), dieting down defeats the purpose, and being on a caloric deficit for an extended period time means you won't have the same energy level as you did when you eat at maintenance or a surplus.
This game is like money. Making weight is like trying to qualify for welfare. Some folks say quit your job to make it... yeah but the problem is you'd be broke and can't do much with it. The real idea is to keep your 100k yr job, then cheat your taxes, hide your money under multiple aliases, in offshore accounts so you can qualify for gubbermint monies, while still being rich.

The issue with combat sports and martial arts is that there is alot of ignorance and early jumping conclusions: aka. "I did nothing but lift weights, stopped boxing, stopped running. And my boxing and cardio went to shit. Therefore weights = ruins boxing and makes you a bad fighter"... So you mean to tell me, that you stopped boxing for a year and your skill dropped? Wow, I did not see that coming. I for one am shocked.

The shit you see sometimes borders on religious dogma imo.

But that's bullshit that they had you in camp, working hard, dieting, and they play favorites cutting you out.
Despite some of my coach's short comings, he treats everyone equally. If we agree to do camp, commit, and grind down, we all get our shot. If we don't, its because the other party doesn't have a fighter that falls into our exp. group or weight class.
The pecking order isn't cool; A couple of our top fighters were victim to that system at their previous gyms and never got a chance to shine, they came here, got their chance and are doing well.

 

[bob]

I stayed blue belt for a year longer than necessary because the "Test" asked that i do an arm bar a certain way and i didnt agree with it. It also needed me to to perform and correctly pronouce the japense names of shit i had never even done before... so i opted out.. eventually i was given a purple because i kept winning blue belt comps.

 

[a guy]

I've found that you'll get a lot farther if you understand why someone is telling you something. These contradictions are a lot less confusing when you think in terms of risk vs reward instead of right vs wrong. So for example, pivoting on the hook or not. It's a classic debate. You'll get more power on the hook with a pivot, but your leg is more exposed and you'll be slower to rotate back the other way (especially if you want to throw a kick from the opposite side after). You have to find the point where you get the best of both worlds generally, and calibrate to the individual situation as needed. If you're against a hard low kicker or want to throw a rear kick, pivot less. If you're going for the kill, want to turn out with it or want to get behind your lead shoulder, pivot more. There are pros and cons to everything. Understand the rationale behind what you're being taught and you'll be able to apply it as needed, or not.

 

[Mr Mojo Lane]

• Do you switch just to mix it up or confuse the opponent or are you shifting? Switching stances and changing defensive hand position could confuse yourself especially if you are doing a one hand up and one hand down like the Philly shell. I shift( so I am switching stances) sometimes and people don’t get it.
  
  
• If you are doing pure MT, they may not like the side kick.
  
  
• ?
  
  
• Kinda agree w/ the second guy
  
  
• If you are square to your opponent, you really can’t throw a RH to the stomach. A shovel hook or uppercut to the stomach, yes. If you got an angle, you can throw a RH to the stomach.

The coaches are probably arguing all the time after practice, anyways.

 

[j123]

I've found that you'll get a lot farther if you understand why someone is telling you something. These contradictions are a lot less confusing when you think in terms of risk vs reward instead of right vs wrong. So for example, pivoting on the hook or not. It's a classic debate. You'll get more power on the hook with a pivot, but your leg is more exposed and you'll be slower to rotate back the other way (especially if you want to throw a kick from the opposite side after). You have to find the point where you get the best of both worlds generally, and calibrate to the individual situation as needed. If you're against a hard low kicker or want to throw a rear kick, pivot less. If you're going for the kill, want to turn out with it or want to get behind your lead shoulder, pivot more. There are pros and cons to everything. Understand the rationale behind what you're being taught and you'll be able to apply it as needed, or not.

I sometimes feel having 2 coaches in striking can work against you sometimes. A Former teammate of mine fought an opponent who had 2 coaches and the contradictory coaching cost him the fight. He had a MT coach, and the other was what I can assume was his boxing coach.
In the 3rd they were locked up in the clinch and in a single collar tie, my teammate was pummelling to get a double collar, and his opponent did good resisting, staing close and not letting him get it. Then his boxing coach suddenly tells him to go for a body hook and that cost him. My teammate immediately secures the double collar, and starts wrecking his guy with full range knees and ragdolling him, it ended with a TKO. From what I heard, his ribs got a fracture of some sort.
imo from exp. with clinching, punches at the range is pointless, you can't get your hips into it so it has lmimited power and it places you in a bad position.

• Do you switch just to mix it up or confuse the opponent or are you shifting? Switching stances and changing defensive hand position could confuse yourself especially if you are doing a one hand up and one hand down like the Philly shell. I shift( so I am switching stances) sometimes and people don’t get it.
  
  
• If you are doing pure MT, they may not like the side kick.
  
  
• ?
  
  
• Kinda agree w/ the second guy
  
  
• If you are square to your opponent, you really can’t throw a RH to the stomach. A shovel hook or uppercut to the stomach, yes. If you got an angle, you can throw a RH to the stomach.

The coaches are probably arguing all the time after practice, anyways.

? = "One coach tells me to lift the leg up for a check after a full 360 rotation (missed roundhouse) another yells and says not to. "you'll get swept."" ?

If this its kinda odd, but it can make sense. Traditional MT guys usually teach to go kick for kick. I guess the idea is that he goes into a "check" position to prevent it. Sweeping can happen if the opponent is smart and if TS repeats this tactic. (sweeping the real leg)

 

[Mr Mojo Lane]

I was questioning the raising heel equals you get swept easily thing. I have seen good striking coaches talk about getting into check position after a 360. I'm not a huge fan of it

 

[Sinister]

This is the reason I personally don't even like the title of "coach." Now some people feel that's me being uppity. But I employ this mental exercise: envision what comes to your mind in a person when you think of the term "Coach"...most people when I do this in person, smile at me when they open their eyes. The reason is because almost everyone has that ONE story of a coach they had who they felt was a lunatic that barely understood the Sport they were coaching in.

Teaching is difficult, nuanced, this is why I prefer to say I'm an instructor. Trainer is a suitable substitute. It doesn't take a whole lot to be a coach, and most "coach" types are very good at taking someone who knows nothing, and teaching them something. But specialized instruction is altogether different. Trainers (in all walks, from sports to vocations) tend to have intricate knowledge of how to do things more efficiently. The woman who taught me how to mop a floor when I was 15, still one of my favorite workplace managers, 22 years later I can still spot a shitty mop job.

You'll know a good trainer when you see one. Typically their students look technically sound, even if different from each other. They're usually doing things that look both interesting, and purposeful (not just running through the motions). They themselves are not likely following their students around like insecure girlfriends, they won't seem to be NEEDILY training someone. And moreover, when you ask them a question about a the sport, or their fighter, they'll sound like they really know what they're talking about, not like they're making some shit up that sounds cool. They'll sound like they understand their students, and the situations they're in:

 

[j123]

This is the reason I personally don't even like the title of "coach." Now some people feel that's me being uppity. But I employ this mental exercise: envision what comes to your mind in a person when you think of the term "Coach"...most people when I do this in person, smile at me when they open their eyes. The reason is because almost everyone has that ONE story of a coach they had who they felt was a lunatic that barely understood the Sport they were coaching in.

Teaching is difficult, nuanced, this is why I prefer to say I'm an instructor. Trainer is a suitable substitute. It doesn't take a whole lot to be a coach, and most "coach" types are very good at taking someone who knows nothing, and teaching them something. But specialized instruction is altogether different. Trainers (in all walks, from sports to vocations) tend to have intricate knowledge of how to do things more efficiently. The woman who taught me how to mop a floor when I was 15, still one of my favorite workplace managers, 22 years later I can still spot a shitty mop job.

You'll know a good trainer when you see one. Typically their students look technically sound, even if different from each other. They're usually doing things that look both interesting, and purposeful (not just running through the motions). They themselves are not likely following their students around like insecure girlfriends, they won't seem to be NEEDILY training someone. And moreover, when you ask them a question about a the sport, or their fighter, they'll sound like they really know what they're talking about, not like they're making some shit up that sounds cool. They'll sound like they understand their students, and the situations they're in:

Good post. I like how you're flexible, I've been with a coach where he said if we don't follow what he says down the to the T (including diet, S&C, etc) we get cut form camp and can't compete.

 

[Sinister]

Well, I do like people to do what I say down to the T. But I'm willing to discuss is with them and explain why something is mandated. I don't respond to questioning like it's a challenge, unless it IS a challenge. Sometimes students try to step up to the line to see how a guy will respond. But otherwise, I try to keep the rapport open and positive.

 

[poepstorm]

Pffff thanks for this thread, a place for us to vent! I've been in a huge rollercoaster ride with (one of) my coaches.
The biggest issue for me (and many of us I imagine) is, martial arts are my life now. When I first joined I knew I'd found my place. That made all conflicts and arguments very loaded and emotional.

- Grappling injuries. As soon as I learned to defend and escape submissions, his ego started itching and applying them harder. I got injured several times, each time he told me it was because I was "using strength instead of technique, and he had no choice but to crank". That advice literally took the fight out of me for months, I showed up but simply didn't put in any 'strength' or effort anymore.

- Striking retardation. We train "Dutch Kickboxing". Stand your ground, keep pushing forward, exchange power strikes. From the first sparring session I realized that I'd need to practice footwork and defense against these grunts. My slipping and lateral movement got that coach really pissed off "That shit disrupts our striking sparring. Use it in a fight if you want, but not sparring." Really?? I considered quitting at this point, to tears, because I didn't want to stand bang and get my brain destroyed.
Anyway, after a few years I signed up for my first MMA fight. They finally let me do my own thing. Of course my own thing kicks everyone's ass, and now they're full of praise and shit, but I'm pretty bitter that I lost years of movement development practicing their bullshit.

Now that new guys are starting to ask my advice and I give some basic striking classes, I try to be a different teacher.
Someone might be doing wacky shit like cartwheels. "Hey man, be careful with that. It's easy to counter with this move, or that move. Your odds of landing are low, so you'd better set it up with this, this and that. If it fails you'll probably end up in this here position, so work on escaping that."

Generally speaking, everything is possible in fighting, as long as you set your mind to it. Yes, you can get the front flip knockout - if you build a solid style and plan towards it. BARRGHGHH I hate coaches who ruin that for us!

 

[j123]

Pffff thanks for this thread, a place for us to vent! I've been in a huge rollercoaster ride with (one of) my coaches.

- Grappling injuries. As soon as I learned to defend and escape submissions, his ego started itching and applying them harder. I got injured several times, each time he told me it was because I was "using strength instead of technique, and he had no choice but to crank". That advice literally took the fight out of me for months, I showed up but simply didn't put in any 'strength' or effort anymore.

- Striking retardation. We train "Dutch Kickboxing". Stand your ground, keep pushing forward, exchange power strikes. From the first sparring session I realized that I'd need to practice footwork and defense against these grunts. My slipping and lateral movement got that coach really pissed off "That shit disrupts our striking sparring. Use it in a fight if you want, but not sparring." Really?? I considered quitting at this point, to tears, because I didn't want to stand bang and get my brain destroyed.
Anyway, after a few years I signed up for my first MMA fight. They finally let me do my own thing. Of course my own thing kicks everyone's ass, and now they're full of praise and shit, but I'm pretty bitter that I lost years of movement development practicing their bullshit.

Now that new guys are starting to ask my advice and I give some basic striking classes, I try to be a different teacher.
Someone might be doing wacky shit like cartwheels. "Hey man, be careful with that. It's easy to counter with this move, or that move. Your odds of landing are low, so you'd better set it up with this, this and that. If it fails you'll probably end up in this here position, so work on escaping that."

Generally speaking, everything is possible in fighting, as long as you set your mind to it. Yes, you can get the front flip knockout - if you build a solid style and plan towards it. BARRGHGHH I hate coaches who ruin that for us!

Wut?
I would normally expect the usual "Don't slip, you'll get headkicked", but lol @ disrupting sparring

But yeah I agree, when I help out newer guys, I'm more open. like I said earlier, everything in training is like finding a suit, it needs to be tailored fit, not grabbed off the shelf and expect it to fit perfectly for everyone.

The coach you grappled with, is that an assistant coach or the actual head coach?

The losing years on movement development I agree with as well. In my case, instead of having coaches being too height phobic, it would've served me better to learn how to cut off the ring properly instead of killing myself to diet down to an even lower weight class.
An eye opening exp. for me was when we went down to the US for a tournament. The American fighters were shorter than us (Cdn), we did well in terms of kicking and dominated with clinching, but the American fighters who had boxing exp. were able to win when it came to mid range. Some won with KOs. Basically they knew how to cut weight properly, and how to fight against a taller opponent. Something which I feel should've been taught to us instead of running down to a bracket where everyone was shorter than us.

I know what you mean with the last sentence. I was taught on day one that when my opponent throws hands (usually a combination), I interrupt it with a leg kick, and do my combo (usually leg kick, 3,2), but I have always felt more stable, balanced, and able to press forward interrupting with hands. Some people will eat the kick thinking its nothing to try to land a cross, but its rare that folks feels that way about punches. Often when I counter with hands, they back off or switch to another plan. Of course I was told "Never do it" because I'm opening myself up. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ . Another common one is the endless "Hands up" every one and their newborn says. Even if someone had good distance management, footwork, and positioning, they get yelled at for dropping hands. It not like it wasn't that low either, it was around chin height instead of the temple.

However, I do see their point though. At the time as beginners, and as new fighters at the time, we need to have the technique and the gameplan down to become muscle memory. And we do that with nothing but repetition in and out. As we all know, when we fight we lose some form of cognitive thinking, and the way to help us to do the absolute basics until they become borderline instinctual. Its tough to cover a million different things, so the most bare essential basics are what we need. (reliable combination, basic clinch work, interrupting the opponent's combinations and never letting them get more than 2-3 strikes on us)
The more exp. we get, the more we can play with more advanced techniques as we have the basics down. Someone that can't throw a regular middle kick properly without losing balance, has no business working with spinning back kicks.

 

[n.diazismylife1999]

My slipping and lateral movement got that coach really pissed off "That shit disrupts our striking sparring. Use it in a fight if you want, but not sparring."

I definitely would've quit and found a new gym at that point.

Good for you that you're established enough to do your own thing now, though. Even the less than stellar coaches usually let you do your own thing after you've proven yourself... hard to argue with results. Of course, some people have egos so big they take it as a personal insult if you want to do things some other way than what they say.

I would normally expect the usual "Don't slip, you'll get headkicked"

This advice triggers the fuck out of me.

 

[poepstorm]

I would normally expect the usual "Don't slip, you'll get headkicked"

Dude you're right, I did get that. Also the "lateral movement don't work, leg kicks". But somehow once I combined slipping and moving, the coach just went "well no one will have any fun trying to hit you, quit it".

The coach you grappled with, is that an assistant coach or the actual head coach?

Two pretty much equal head coaches, which made confrontation difficult. I sometimes blame myself for not confronting him. I'm not sure if he learned from his mistakes, because he was new to coaching when I started out, but I promised myself I'd confront him if I hear similar complaints from new students.

it would've served me better to learn how to cut off the ring properly instead of killing myself to diet down to an even lower weight class.

Damn this sounds like some holocaust story.. I don't fux with weightcutting in general, but your coaches thoughts behind it is especially stupid. Just damn.

..Basically they knew [...] how to fight against a taller opponent. Something which I feel should've been taught to us instead of running down to a bracket where everyone was shorter than us.

:'( christ them coaches might not even know how to fight a taller opponent, spazzes.

Another common one is the endless "Hands up" every one and their newborn says. Even if someone had good distance management, footwork, and positioning, they get yelled at for dropping hands. It not like it wasn't that low either, it was around chin height instead of the temple.

Yeah, I don't like that one.. I might be playing with fire, but I teach the newbs a different way. I drill tightening up their guard whenever they step into range. For me it feels like my guard is tighter when those jabs come in, and it trains my body to get ready whenever my guard is up, and recover when it's down.

I definitely would've quit and found a new gym at that point.

Good for you that you're established enough to do your own thing now, though. Even the less than stellar coaches usually let you do your own thing after you've proven yourself... hard to argue with results.

Man I was in tears, I swear I'd found a great team in so many ways but the details were killing me.

Nowadays I'm the top prospect and that same coach has now put some of my moves into the curriculum. I wasn't even mad, I was pretty damn proud, but talking about it now makes it all seem a bit weird.

 

[n.diazismylife1999]

Nowadays I'm the top prospect and that same coach has now put some of my moves into the curriculum. I wasn't even mad, I was pretty damn proud, but talking about it now makes it all seem a bit weird.

That's good stuff, and great that your coach is at least indirectly admitting his mistake.

But all this shit is so ubiquitous, all the talented, enthusiastic self-learners I've talked with have run into the same thing (and usually with the same end result as in your case: the coach quietly acquiescing when suddenly the new guy with his "unorthodox" methods starts whooping the veterans) in their gyms, in multiple countries, across different arts -- boxing, BJJ, no gi, etc.

Not that I don't have some sympathy for the coaches who teach big classes and lots of new faces regularly. But a good coach should keep an open mind and be able to differentiate between different kinds of people -- you want to approach someone who's intelligent and analytical different from someone who's, well, not. If you're only teaching one approach, that'll screw with a lot of people's progress.

 

[jlagman]

After a certain point, a good student develops critical thinking skills and decides for themselves what works for them and I mean this in many different walks of life.

I've noticed something similar with my shooting and marksmanship, I had gotten a lot of different kinds of instruction throughout the years, most recently during initial training for work, which I thought was by-and-large, a fucking joke. Lots of dudes who ended up in a training branch, of an agency that's never had to shoot anyone before.

I kinda felt like I was being fucked with during our firearms training because someone with a crash course in giving crash courses had a point to prove. There are things I do, which other trainers teach but weren't approved by a particular line officer. The thing is, when I called him out on it, I felt like I had a better understanding of why they taught it that way than he did.

Now, personally, one of my big red flags is when an instructor parrots the notion that it's better to have no experience beforehand, so that there are fewer "training scars" to correct.

 

[poepstorm]

Now, personally, one of my big red flags is when an instructor parrots the notion that it's better to have no experience beforehand, so that there are fewer "training scars" to correct.

Haha training scars!! That's so ridiculous. First I thought, never heard that one in martial arts training, but I guess some trainers can be very suspicious and difficult with people coming from different disciplines.