Just how good was Wanderlei Silva?

[VaskisRanger]

Jon Jones is not the average LHW, have you looked at the LHW division outside of Jones, DC and Gus? It sucks. 2003 Wanderlei would destroy most of the current UFC LHW division so would most of the best guys from Pride.

Jon Jones is my example of someone who is actually well rounded - I can give plenty more.

Just because wanderlei used to go for more takedowns etc doesn’t mean he was ever really any good at it, and any decent wrestler of the last decade would put him on his back and grind him out, fact

 

[VaskisRanger]

nah to you too, even a WW Colby beats 2003 wanderlei in a UFC cage and that’s a fact

 

[shino]

Wanderlei was the only guy I personally heard Frank Shamrock was scared to fight. Back in the day at AKA when Frank was in talks with Pride of course Wand"s name got brought up and Frank's response was always "No that guy's scary!". He always said it with a chuckle but you could tell he was being real about that. People, especially newer fans forget what kind of a monster Silva was in Pride.

 

[eiyuu]

"since PRIDE was DESPERATE to have a Japanese MW Champ"

Interesting... What a local Org. is supposed to do? in Brazil, Japan, Russia...

Was IVC or WVC supposed to book Superfights between an American and a Russian, for instance?

Book the Champion against the top contender regardless of country of origin.

Definitely not match the champion against fighters on losing streaks like PRIDE did with Wanderlei Silva facing Alexander Otsuka (3 fight losing streak prior to fighting Wand), Kiyoshi Tamura (3 fight losing streak prior to fighting Wand), Ikuhisa Minowa (lost previous fight before fighting Wand) or guys who never should be fighting the champion at all like Tatsuya Iwasaki (who never fought MMA before, making his MMA debut against the champ.)

Meanwhile, Rampage Jackson had to win 7 fights in a row to get his shot against Wand and that was only because he fought his way through the 2003 MW tournament.

If you're ok with that, you're a moron.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Jon Jones is my example of someone who is actually well rounded - I can give plenty more.

Just because wanderlei used to go for more takedowns etc doesn’t mean he was ever really any good at it, and any decent wrestler of the last decade would put him on his back and grind him out, fact

You used the best fighter at LHW who is way better than every other LHW not named DC and Gus currently. Name these super well rounded LHWs that aren't named DC, Jones or Gus cause I don't see them.

LMAO, Rampage and Arona were great at takedowns and Wanderlei beat them both. It's not like there are great LHW wrestlers now in the UFC, the best one outside of the three I mentioned is an ancient Glover and I would say Rampage and Arona had better takedowns than Glover.

 

[VaskisRanger]

You used the best fighter at LHW who is way better than every other LHW not named DC and Gus currently. Name these super well rounded LHWs that aren't named DC, Jones or Gus cause I don't see them.

LMAO, Rampage and Arona were great at takedowns and Wanderlei beat them both. It's not like there are great LHW wrestlers now in the UFC, the best one outside of the three I mentioned is an ancient Glover and I would say Rampage and Arona had better takedowns than Glover.

Not being funny but mixed martial arts has evolved 1000% since 2003, everyone was one dimensional in 2003 by today’s standards - and most of the early champions would be comfortably beaten by half of the roster now. Wanderlei is no different. Appreciate that there’s probably 50 times as many people training MMA in 2018 compared to 2003. CROSS TRAINING MMA. You’re an absolute fool is you think any different, a fool and a tool LMAO

PS. LEST WE FORGET HE WAS ROIDED UP TO HIS FUCKING EYEBALLS TOO

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Not being funny but mixed martial arts has evolved 1000% since 2003, everyone was one dimensional in 2003 by today’s standards - and most of the early champions would be comfortably beaten by half of the roster now. Wanderlei is no different. Appreciate that there’s probably 50 times as many people training MMA in 2018 compared to 2003. CROSS TRAINING MMA. You’re an absolute fool is you think any different, a fool and a tool LMAO

You can't make blanket statements like this because it's totally not accurate. HW and LHW are weaker divisions overall than they used to be, especially HW. Sure there are some guys like Jones, Gus and DC at LHW that are arguably better than anyone that was in Pride but the division falls off a cliff in terms of skill sets after those 3. Anthony Smith is a top 5 LHW FFS, he would be far from well rounded in Pride compared to Lil Nog, Shogun, Wanderlei, Overeem, Hendo and Rampage and he's the next best guy currently, Volkan is also not very well rounded either and he's ranked a bit below Anthony Smith. Smith and Volkan wouldn't have been good enough to have been top 5 in Pride.

Name these great LHWs that are so well rounded that aren't named Jones Gus and DC, this is the second time I have asked and you aren't answering but are just spouting this new breed nonsense as if every division always gets better without giving any evidence to prove it.

 

[The Schmoop]

LHW GOAT.

Shogun says so.

Shoguns opinion > any shertard ever

 

[The Schmoop]

PS. LEST WE FORGET HE WAS ROIDED UP TO HIS FUCKING EYEBALLS TOO

This is the worst argument to make against a Pride fighter as there was no testing. Juice league > UFC. If you’re dominating the best fighters on the planet in a league where juice is encouraged you’re the best fighter on the planet

 

[VaskisRanger]

You can't make blanket statements like this because it's totally not accurate. HW and LHW are weaker divisions overall than they used to be, especially HW. Sure there are some guys like Jones, Gus and DC at LHW that are arguably better than anyone that was in Pride but the division falls off a cliff in terms of skill sets after those 3. Anthony Smith is a top 5 LHW FFS, he would be far from well rounded in Pride compared to Lil Nog, Shogun, Wanderlei, Overeem, Hendo and Rampage and he's the next best guy currently.

Name these great LHWs that are so well rounded that aren't named Jones Gus and DC, this is the second time I have asked.

Jones
Gustafson
DC
Mousasi
Rory Macdonald
Anderson Silva
Chael Sonnen
Bader
OSP
Reyes
Latiffi
Volkan
GSP
Woodley
Romero
Branch
Whittaker
Gastelum
Rockhold
Jan Blachowicz

Just off the top of my head... if any of these guys fought 2003 Wanderlei in a cage next week at any weight/catch weight, he loses

And trust me; that’s just the top of the iceberg - if I cared more about your opinion then I’d list 50 more

 

[VaskisRanger]

This is the worst argument to make against a Pride fighter as there was no testing. Juice league > UFC. If you’re dominating the best fighters on the planet in a league where juice is encouraged you’re the best fighter on the planet

Umm... It’s a completely valid argument if we’re comparing him to the modern UFC fighters that don’t juice? No idea what your point is here

 

[Zorrox]

He was the most feared fighter on the planet for a good while. Never the most technical, but an absolute animal that could overwhelm anybody on any given night.

 

[The Schmoop]

Umm... It’s a completely valid argument if we’re comparing him to the modern UFC fighters that don’t juice? No idea what your point is here

No, it’s not. PED use is not cheating if it’s legal. UFC fighters compete against clean**** competition. Pride fighters fought against competition that was allowed to be juiced to the gills. I can’t understand this for you.

 

[VaskisRanger]

No, it’s not. PED use is not cheating if it’s legal. UFC fighters compete against clean**** competition. Pride fighters fought against competition that was allowed to be juiced to the gills. I can’t understand this for you.

Lol my comment about PED use was in relation to a discussion about 2003 Wanderlei vs current UFC fighters.

What you’re saying is irrelevant

The point I’m making is that these fights in Pride have to be taken with a pinch of salt when comparing it to modern day UFC.

A guy who is juiced up to his eyeballs is going to look more impressive on peds, faster, stronger - regardless of whether his opponent is too.

So when you look back at his Pride highlights and see his explosiveness for example, and compare them to a modern UFC fighter it’s not really fair as you’re essentially comparing a different sport with a different rule set. Testing vs no testing

Again, if you don’t get what I’m saying then don’t bother replying because it’s pretty black and white

 

[gono btw]

Book the Champion against the top contender regardless of country of origin.

Definitely not match the champion against fighters on losing streaks like PRIDE did with Wanderlei Silva facing Alexander Otsuka (3 fight losing streak prior to fighting Wand), Kiyoshi Tamura (3 fight losing streak prior to fighting Wand), Ikuhisa Minowa (lost previous fight before fighting Wand) or guys who never should be fighting the champion at all like Tatsuya Iwasaki (who never fought MMA before, making his MMA debut against the champ.)

Meanwhile, Rampage Jackson had to win 7 fights in a row to get his shot against Wand and that was only because he fought his way through the 2003 MW tournament.

If you're ok with that, you're a moron.

Helax, dude.

Fighters were much more active in Pride, your champs in your UFC defend once in a while.
Wand was fightin´ between 4 and 6 fights per year back then.

Them dudes in Pride were trying to build a market, ya have to test your local players.

In time, quoting someone like Tamura is really a poor choice: the 3 losses were against HW Big Nog (GOAT Rings), HW Babalu (he was a HW in Rings), and a lesser opponent in Gustavo Machado. Watch them fights, dude.
Context is everything.

 

[gono btw]

Not being funny but mixed martial arts has evolved 1000% since 2003, everyone was one dimensional in 2003 by today’s standards - and most of the early champions would be comfortably beaten by half of the roster now. Wanderlei is no different. Appreciate that there’s probably 50 times as many people training MMA in 2018 compared to 2003. CROSS TRAINING MMA. You’re an absolute fool is you think any different, a fool and a tool LMAO

PS. LEST WE FORGET HE WAS ROIDED UP TO HIS FUCKING EYEBALLS TOO

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-5-the-true-evolution-of-mma.3807975/

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...t-3-the-evolution-of-werdum´s-career.3831261/

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...skill-set-mma-evolution-the-hws-case.3815393/

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...t-mma-evolution-the-lhw-golden-era-s.3828473/

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-evolution-the-mw-transitional-era-s.3858851/

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-21-the-disorganized-ww-div.3873877/

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...23-cross-training-in-mma´s-dark-ages.3874607/

 

[wlu.29]

good fighter, legendary heart

wild and not very smart fighter though

greatest wins are over smaller guys and rampage jackson

also known for taking on tough guys in bigger classes (but losing)

 

[VaskisRanger]

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-5-the-true-evolution-of-mma.3807975/

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-3-the-evolution-of-werdum´s-career.3831261/

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...skill-set-mma-evolution-the-hws-case.3815393/

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...t-mma-evolution-the-lhw-golden-era-s.3828473/

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/d...-evolution-the-mw-transitional-era-s.3858851/

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-21-the-disorganized-ww-div.3873877/

http://forums.sherdog.com/threads/deconstructing-mma-myths-part-23-cross-training-in-mma´s-dark-ages.3874607/

No offence intended but I’m not about to read 10 threads so if you wanted to summarise your point that would be great

 

[eiyuu]

Helax, dude.

Fighters were much more active in Pride, your champs in your UFC defend once in a while.
Wand was fightin´ between 4 and 6 fights per year back then.

Them dudes in Pride were trying to build a market, ya have to test your local players.

In time, quoting someone like Tamura is really a poor choice: the 3 losses were against HW Big Nog (GOAT Rings), HW Babalu (he was a HW in Rings), and a lesser opponent in Gustavo Machado. Watch them fights, dude.
Context is everything.

There is no excuse for a champion to be fighting against ANYONE with a losing streak or a fighter's first MMA fight ever.

No excuse.

Not when PRIDE did it.

Not when the UFC does it.

No excuse.

 

[gono btw]

No offence intended but I’m not about to read 10 threads so if you wanted to summarise your point that would be great

In short: watch those fights.