Just how good was Wanderlei Silva?

[gono btw]

HW Hunto won by being the bigger fighter, if Wand would be wellrounded he would have won the fight. Wasn't his fight against Yvel a NC due to a kick in the groin? Lol @ Kondo and Tamura, both were not even A level Pride WW's. You forgot to mention Oyama, Otsuka, Iwasaki, Kanehara, ... all of them were top Pride fighters

The Hunto fight was a controversial one.

Your 'lol' @ Kondo & Tamura is laughable indeed...

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

Wanderlei was one of my favorite fighters back in the Pride days. Actually Mirko vs Wanderlei 1 was one of the first fights that I watched in MMA. Like I said, he was a monster and yes he did beat most of the fighters he faced in Pride. But let's be honest: what was the level of the fighters he faced in Pride. Apart of Hendo, Rampage and Sakuraba, most of them were B to C level fighters. Back in the day he was the man at MW in Pride. But so was let's say Gomi at LW in Pride and I don't think anybody would mention Gomi in a LW GOAT discussion.

Gomi is mentioned in LW GOAT discussions all the time. Everyone fought some lower level guys back then, Pride guys normally fought like 4-5 times a year on average so of course some of them would be lower level guys to stay busy.

 

[elanimalsantana]

He beat only 6 top level fighters in his Pride run. Mezger, Sakuraba, Rampage, Fujita, Henderson & Arona. The rest where ALL cans or guys who never belong in the ring with him.

He's a good fighter liked his brawling style and his ground game off his back is underrated, you bring up those fights with Vitor & Tito but fail to mention he loss those. Look at his career in the UFC, that's what his career would look like in Pride if he was fighting top fighters. It was a different time though where all the top 205 where scattered in different orgs. Lil Nog, Overeem, Vovchanchyn, even Lister we're there fighting yet he was matched against people who shouldn't have been in there. I get it, it was the Japanese who wanted to see a fellow countryman beat the unbeatable Wanderlei Silva.

Like I mentioned I enjoyed watching him he's a good fighter but the competition he beat to fill that undefeated streak were gimmes.

 

[Franklin U.]

I'm not and never was a big wanderlei guy.
If a guy named Quinton Jackson was never born, I don't know how rabid Silva s fan base would actually be.

 

[elanimalsantana]

One of the most overrated fighters in mma history. Right behind CC.

 

[IAC]

Better than Shogun IMO although Shogun gets all of the glory.

Legacy wise? Of course, but skill wise Shogun was the better of the two. The thing is that Shogun had a short lived prime, that's it.

 

[gono btw]

Win or lose, he still fought the tougher competition, we're talking about the level he fought. Now you mention he only beat 6 guys, make it 7 with Nakamura cause if you're you gonna use Fujita you gotta use Nak. He had wins over Igor, Randleman, Bustamante Cyborg and Kondo and was a top 10 LHW. Furthermore, he beat Sak 3x and Rampage 2x, so overall he had 10 of those top level fighter wins. Also consider he fought Cro Cop in his prime during K1 which was a draw under the special rules. He also lost to Arona, Hunt, Cro Cop and Henderson, that 15 fights vs top competition and a pretty solid 10-4-1 record. Sure he fought some cans, the 4 I mentioned.... but the remainder was Kondo, Yoshida 2x, Tamura and Minowa. Not top level fighters, but not cans either. Out of 24 fights, 15 were vs top comp and another 5 vs good fighers . Overall that is a pretty high level of competition he's facing.

If were just talking wins, 16/20 were vs top/good competition while 4 were gimmie fights.

Jus´to put things into perspective:
Kondo was a natural WW, realistically, and his rank @ LHW:

October 2003
Light Heavyweight:
1. Wanderlei Silva
2. Randy Couture
3. Quinton Jackson
4. Chuck Liddell
5. Vitor Belfort
6. Tito Ortiz
7. Renato Sobral

8. Yuki Kondo

9. Antonio Rogerio Nogueira
10. Alistair Overeem

 

[SammyPops]

He was a monster, but he was not known for being a technical striker. He was ferocious, throwing wild hay makers and doing damage with knees, stomps and soccer kicks. He was the Pride MW champion for a long time, destroying everybody but IMO he's not worthy to mention when you're starting the GOAT talks ...

This sums it up pretty well. I'd add that he was so dominant at MW, he moved up to face HWs. Not toomany fighters can say that.

Not a GOAT, but he was the GOAT 205 during the golden age of that weight. That tournament win ws legit.

 

[FrontNakedChoke]

PRIDE Wanderlei was one of the scariest fighters ever.

 

[eiyuu]

Wand had a lot of gimme fights over some questionable Japanese fighters (since PRIDE was DESPERATE to have a Japanese MW Champ--they just kept throwing Japanese fighter after Japanese fighter at Wand including poor Sakuraba 3x), BUT when he fought top comp, it was usually wars with amazing brutality.

Sad he was never able to avenge his losses to Cheeto Ortiz or Vitor Belfort in his prime.

At least he was able to make this commercial . . .

 

[gono btw]

Wand had a lot of gimme fights over some questionable Japanese fighters (since PRIDE was DESPERATE to have a Japanese MW Champ--they just kept throwing Japanese fighter after Japanese fighter at Wand including poor Sakuraba 3x), BUT when he fought top comp, it was usually wars with amazing brutality.

Sad he was never able to avenge his losses to Cheeto Ortiz or Vitor Belfort in his prime.

At least he was able to make this commercial . . .

"since PRIDE was DESPERATE to have a Japanese MW Champ"

Interesting... What a local Org. is supposed to do? in Brazil, Japan, Russia...

Was IVC or WVC supposed to book Superfights between an American and a Russian, for instance?

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

"since PRIDE was DESPERATE to have a Japanese MW Champ"

Interesting... What a local Org. is supposed to do? in Brazil, Japan, Russia...

Was IVC or WVC supposed to book Superfights between an American and a Russian, for instance?

I don't think he's criticizing Pride for trying to get a Japanese fighter to beat Wanderlei, but they did match him up with almost all of the best Japanese fighters that competed around 183-HW.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

he used to be considered in the GOAT talks.

but once he got older and the new fans saw him as a washed up brawler, that time passed.

but even with all his flaws, IN HIS PRIME, you would be hard pressed to find anyone who would be able to just steam roll him.

i don't care what anyone says, Wand in Pride, with the roids or whatever he was on, was an absolute monster fight for ANYONE.

the only person who really fucked him up in his prime was CroCop. everyone else had trouble with him.

 

[VaskisRanger]

by modern day standards he’s always been one dimensional and not really all that good, but back in the day he was a bit of a phenom but then again genuinely stole his opponents soul before the opening bell

 

[Yung Dilla]

As good as his roids allowed him to be.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

by modern day standards he’s always been one dimensional and not really all that good, but back in the day he was a bit of a phenom but then again genuinely stole his opponents soul before the opening bell

By modern day standards 2003 Wanderlei would still be very well rounded at LHW. He regressed as he aged when he was younger he used to jab, throw kicks often and would go for takedowns and set up his clinch.

It happens with many MMA fighters as they age. Cro Cop and Rampage also became more one dimensional as they aged same with Shogun and Fedor though they are starting to use their grappling again.

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/6/...ranklin-Vitor-Belfort-judo-chop-mma-technique

 

[VaskisRanger]

By modern day standards 2003 Wanderlei would still be very well rounded at LHW. He regressed as he aged when he was younger he used to jab, throw kicks often and would go for takedowns and set up his clinch.

It happens with many MMA fighters as they age. Cro Cop and Rampage also became more one dimensional as they aged.

https://www.bloodyelbow.com/2012/6/...ranklin-Vitor-Belfort-judo-chop-mma-technique

coming from someone who’s seen every pride/ufc wanderlei fight I stand by him being very one dimensional by modern standards. Someone who is actually well rounded like Jon Jones takes apart 2003 wanderlei in 1-2 rounds

wanderlei was never better than your run of the mill Thiago Silva and had he started 10 years later the guy would be a Bellator journeyman if that

 

[Roids]

Beat up a lot of cans but also killed Rampage twice in their prime. Absolute killer monster.

 

[NoBiasJustMMA]

coming from someone who’s seen every pride/ufc wanderlei fight I stand by him being very one dimensional by modern standards. Someone who is actually well rounded like Jon Jones takes apart 2003 wanderlei in 1-2 rounds

Jon Jones is not the average LHW, have you looked at the LHW division outside of Jones, DC and Gus? It sucks. 2003 Wanderlei would destroy most of the current UFC LHW division so would most of the best guys from Pride.

Wanderlei, Lil Nog, Rampage, Shogun and Overeem are more well rounded than most of the division and I think you could probably pick any one of them plus someone like Arona and they would be top 10 today easily at their best.

 

[Pancake Sprawl]

by modern day standards he’s always been one dimensional and not really all that good, but back in the day he was a bit of a phenom but then again genuinely stole his opponents soul before the opening bell

nah, he's actually pretty multi-faceted, it's just most of his wins were one dimensional, because he just liked to beat everyone's ass to death.

he had legit jiu jitsu skills and his takedown defense was pretty good. he also paced himself really well back in the day.

when he got older is when he started fighting like a retard.