Judo vs wrestling.

This fight showed the limitations of Olympic judo. Multiple beautiful takedown techniques were used. Iirc most if not all ended in Jake shields popping right back up on his feet/scrambling on to his feet.

I see your point and I don't like the Olympic rules, but that match showed the limitations of Akiyama's game plan more than anything. (He isn't Olympic level by the way.) Had that been say a Yoshida or a Ronda, he/she would have instinctly followed to the ground.
 
I see your point and I don't like the Olympic rules, but that match showed the limitations of Akiyama's game plan more than anything. (He isn't Olympic level by the way.) Had that been say a Yoshida or a Ronda, he/she would have instinctly followed to the ground.

Had akiyama not been a ethnic Korean born in Japan. He would have made many olympic national teams. The guy is an Asian games judo gold medalist.
 
Had akiyama not been a ethnic Korean born in Japan. He would have made many olympic national teams. The guy is an Asian games judo gold medalist.

Yes, his skills may have indeed been on that level, I only meant to say he never was in the Olympics. I should have been clearer. Also I don't think it has anything to do with his ethnicity, but more with the charges of him greasing his gi, and Japan having a fierce competition for the team. His golds were well before the next Olympics to come.
 
Both are great sport, Judo is amazing in the clinch and wrestling is great to duck below the punches.. all MMA gyms includes a bit of both judo, folk and bjj in their grappling training, and foot sweeps or hip throw are used pretty often.

But what is sure is that high levels judo guys don’t transition that much into MMA more for cultural reasons than anything else , judo federations are (too) stricts and conservative + european international levels judoka tends to compete in judo until they are past their prime and are pro athletes,
who make decent living from judo which may not be the case in wrestling.
 
Both are great sport, Judo is amazing in the clinch and wrestling is great to duck below the punches.. all MMA gyms includes a bit of both judo, folk and bjj in their grappling training, and foot sweeps or hip throw are used pretty often.

But what is sure is that high levels judo guys don’t transition that much into MMA more for cultural reasons than anything else , judo federations are (too) stricts and conservative + european international levels judoka tends to compete in judo until they are past their prime and are pro athletes,
who make decent living from judo which may not be the case in wrestling.

Absolutely true, and what you say about Europe also applies to Japan. And Korea I believe.
 
Yes, his skills may have indeed been on that level, I only meant to say he never was in the Olympics. I should have been clearer. Also I don't think it has anything to do with his ethnicity, but more with the charges of him greasing his gi, and Japan having a fierce competition for the team. His golds were well before the next Olympics to come.

I mean the two countries he competed for was Korea and Japan top 5 nations in judo, especially in his weighhtclass. He would have made the olympic teams of 95%of the nation's in the world.
 
That's not true at all. If your talking about sports judo then yes leg grabs are forbidden but the art of judo negates that

Please stop with this "judo has double legs" when only a small fraction of judo practitioners do it. You may belong to a anomaly of a gym that does single and double legs, however if you are a judoka you would know that you are an anomaly.
 
Judo also relies quite a bit on holding the Gi/Jacket/clothing of your opponent and has to be adapted for MMA use as this is illegal.

This is pretty much the best answer. In MMA Judo doesn't translate all that well, because there's nothing to grab onto.

Its not that its bad, its just that it requires you to have a good striking defence, to properly set up your takedowns. In the wrestling case, if you know how to level change properly, striking defence is not all that important.
 
This thread again?

Listen to these angry wrasslers.

"muh folkstyle!"

<Dany07>
 
Please stop with this "judo has double legs" when only a small fraction of judo practitioners do it. You may belong to a anomaly of a gym that does single and double legs, however if you are a judoka you would know that you are an anomaly.
your statement is false then if your referring to judo, the martial art.
What your actually referring to, is modern judo practitioners, which is debatable too
 
I mean the two countries he competed for was Korea and Japan top 5 nations in judo, especially in his weighhtclass. He would have made the olympic teams of 95%of the nation's in the world.

Absolutely. I say he would have made it anywhere other than Japan.
 
your statement is false then if your referring to judo, the martial art.
What your actually referring to, is modern judo practitioners, which is debatable too

So you use atemi wazza also? because you know... It is in "judo the martial art"
 
The problem is that in MMA there are far more great wrestlers than great judokas. So of course we're all saying that wrestling is more effective, better suited for MMA.

The thing is when you have high level judokas like Akiyama, Lombard, Karo and Ronda, and you see what they're able to do against wrestler, you realize how much judo is powerful.
 
Correct. Folkstyle is a legitimate sport that involved heavy duty conditioning & carefully curated high level competition amongst proven athletes. Catch Wrestling offers none of that. There's literally not one example of someone being raised on "catch wrestling" having success at the highest levels of MMA. I specifically recall when "catch as catch can" started getting namedropped by hipster MMA fans. Barnett & Couture started dropping Billy Robinson's name years ago & claimed to have implemented some of his stuff into their training regiments. What are some examples of these mythical "catch wrestlers" having success in MMA? We'll wait.

"Submission wrestling" lol. That was some dumb ridiculously vague buzz word dropped by sloppy brawlers like Ken Shamrock way back in the day. Take a look at most current MMA champs in relevant orgs: Miocic, Jones, Cormier, GSP, Woodley, Dillashaw, Mighty Mouse, Askren (not a relevant org, but still), Bader, Caldwell. Every single one of them have Folkstyle backgrounds. Numagomedov's style is pure folk. Ferguson comes from a Folkstyle background. GSP didn't grow up on it but learned how to wrestle American Collegiate style because he knew what he had to do to keep evolving (he's the rarest of examples because it's the hardest combat style to pick up later in life along with Boxing. Because they're both, you know....real sports & not some vague, niche nonsense)

To argue that Folkstyle isn't the most sensical & prominent base for MMA is pretty moronic & futile. I'd call it borderline trolling, personally. The proof is in the pudding.
Khabibs style is pure folk? Lol what??
Khabibs style incorporates allot of judo have you seen his throws?
His submissions?
How do you figure his control ontop is due to his folk background? You never control people in side control, half gaurd, mount in folk like you do in catch, bjj, sambo, mma, like khabib does.
Hence why i said folk is a great base but by itself its not the best grappling form for mma that's simply not true.

Submission wrestling, catch wrestling these have all become umbrella terms, let me rephrase so you can't mistake it.
You take someone with 5 years folk
And you take someone with 5 years submission wrestling under let's say Neil melanson and throw them in a no gi submission grappling match the submission grappler is going to win fairly easily.

1/4 of the grappling you use in folk will be used in mma
3/4 of the grappling you use in catch will be used in mma.
 
When Judo is done right it looks amazing.

Wrestling is more reliable, bread and butter imo.
 
How is this even a discussion?

Good old fashioned American Folkstyle wrestling (US HS/Collegiate wrestling) trumps every other grappling artform in a real fight.
Lol what why are you changing your point?
You clearly said folk/freestyle Trump's every other artform in a "real fight" lol
And you abandoned that argument after I showed how stupid of a claim that is
The vast majority of Khabib's takedowns are pure folkstyle. Sambo borrows a lot from American wrestling techniques. He also trains at AKA with some of the top Folkstyle guys in the sport.

We're not talking about any of what you're referring to. We're talking about which form of combat is the best base for Unified Rules MMA, which is the closest sport that we have that simulates what a real fight is like. The guys who have the most success in MMA come from Folkstyle backgrounds. This cannot be debated.
I never debated collegiate wrestling experience is a great base.
I debated your claim that on it's own it's the best martial art for a "real fight".
Which is a ridiculous claim that was already proved wrong by the Gracie's years ago
 
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Nope. Compared to American HS & Collegiate Wrestling, Judo is a working man's "sport". They don't implement extreme conditioning, strength training, & weight cutting at early ages within the Judo world. There is conditioning implemented to a certain degree at the highest levels, but the focus is almost purely upon technique.

The biggest thing that separates US Folkstyle from Judo & other TMA grappling styles, is the ruthless, bully culture that is intrinsic to it's nature. The mean-spirited, uber-aggressive aesthetic. Respect isn't valued at all. Demoralizing your opponent & destroying them at all costs is the only thing that matters. Bigger, faster, stronger, more aggressive. That's really why it lends itself so well to real fighting.

Teach a top level Folkstyle guy (or even a mid/lower-level Folkstyle athlete like Jon Jones) how to hit people in the face, along with some rudimentary submission skills, & you've got a killing machine.

Ok, I don't know much about American folk style wrestling, but I can say your description of it sounds very American indeed. And yes, judo is more respectful than that.

Other than that I don't think you know what you are talking about, and you sound like you are very young. There's nothing wrong in that but I think I've said enough.
 
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