Judo is scientifically more efficient and economical in motion than wrestling.

ArtemV said:
Look at much of the best wrestlers right now, they are not crazy and don't waste energy: Burroughs, Sadulaev, Snyder, Rashidov, Aliyev, Khinchegashvili etc have all mastered the art of perfecting their technique to use as little-to-no energy for a technique to be successful.
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The more you train and fight, the more you will be able to economize your motions to make them more efficient.
Top wrestlers are the same and it is great to see high level practice.
It is just the basic mechanics of the techniques themselves are designed differently and are generally more efficient in Judo. Watch the Parisyan vid and you see that it is just different from wrestling regardless. Another nice one recently was Fedor on Mir. When it works it is LIKE WATER.

Now, if you at a good level Judo nothing stops you adding power on top of this. So the final version is a combibation but the power came secondary to the mechanics.

I will also go out and say that the double leg is more reliable a takedown much of the time than a throw. That is why they banned it and all leg attacks in Judo (moroto-gari). A double leg can also be learned and applied with someone with much less training.

But disadvantages of double leg-
-You end in up guard, whereas after a throw you remain standing or can follow them down straight to side control or north/south. So a throw is positionally much better.
- a double leg you risk being guillotined, ir a nice timed uppercut or knee. Sone of the the worst injuries ever to occur in mma came from momentum of a double leg shoot into a knee counter.
- in a real fight you risk: downward elbows to spine, knees to the head if they sprawl, driving your own head to the ground as you shoot, damaging your knees and hands on the ground of a hard surface.
Judo throws were designed for real world application so dont have these issues.
 
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TheMaster said:
The more you train and fight, the more you will be able to ecenomize your motions to make them more efficient.
Top wrestlers are the same and it is great to see high level practice.
It is just the basic mechanics of the techniques themselves are designed differently and are generally more efficient in Judo. Watch the Parisyan vid and you see that it is just different from wrestling regardless. Another nice one recently was Fedor on Mir. When it works it is LIKE WATER.

Now, if you at a good level Judo nothing stops you adding power on top of this. So the final version is a combibation but the power came secondary to the mechanics.

I will also go out and say that the double leg is more reliable a takedown much of the time than a throw. Thst is why they banned it and all leg attacks in Judo (moroto-gari). A double leg can also be learned and applied with someone with much less training.

But disadvantages of double leg-
-You end in up guard, whereas after a throw you remain standing or can follow them down straight to side control or north/south. So a throw is positionally much better.
- a double leg you risk being guillotined
- in a real fight you risk: downward elbows to spine, knees to the head if they sprawl, driving your own head to the ground as you shoot, damaging your knees and hands on the ground of a hard surface.
Judo throws were designed for real world application so dont gave these issues.
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Lmao you risk plenty in a fight no matter what you use. If you dont close the distance good luck throwing someone.
 
While I am convinced this is a troll thread, I wonder if the Soviets have measured energy expenditure for various grappling techniques. Not sure how this would be done (e.g. O2 expenditure?) but I know I've seen strength equipment that was specifically targeted towards wrestling techniques, like a machine designed to test/strengthen ones gut wrench.

Anytime I've seen these "wrestling = lots of strength" threads I imagine them to be mostly American based, where wrestling is much more popular than judo. They also seem to originate from people who have not trained for a significant period of time in wrestling.

I wonder if this mentality persists in, say, European countries, where more bjj guys are likely to be wrestlers or even judokas.

Any person who I've rolled with who had a significant wrestling/judo background and a comparatively small amount of bjj training was very explosive. I'm not even talking about people who competed in 4 year colleges or who had their countries patched on their backs. Even people who only wrestled at the JC level or did judo in a Japanese high school were crazy explosive. Perhaps the raw physicality of a technique is easier to comprehend than the more nuanced aspects of a highly technical maneuver executed with perfect timing.
 
It’s either a troll thread or he’s serious. Either way, 4/10
 
Dogstarman said:
Watch any high level grappling. Jiu jitsu,Judo, wrestling. They all use high power and strength.
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Depends. In BJJ a lot of the elite guys don't really use a lot of power.
Some like Erberth Santos or Aly or Buchecha do but say Musumeci or the Miayos or Keenan don't.
Using strength or having super high intensity are different things.
 
yetanother said:
Depends. In BJJ a lot of the elite guys don't really use a lot of power.
Some like Erberth Santos or Aly or Buchecha do but say Musumeci or the Miayos or Keenan don't.
Using strength or having super high intensity are different things.
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So Keenan doesn’t grip the fuck out of his lapel? The Miayos don’t use explosive movements and strength to dive under people and take their backs? They definitely do use strength and power. They are also super intense.
 
Dogstarman said:
So Keenan doesn’t grip the fuck out of his lapel? The Miayos don’t use explosive movements and strength to dive under people and take their backs? They definitely do use strength and power. They are also super intense.
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People grip stuff hard in jiu jitsu and will cling on for dear life. I don't see the Miyaos using that much power with their berimbolos (compared to lifting somebody in the air).
I don't view doing things without power as superior to using it when it helps. Lower level judokas aren't more technical or superior in any way because they don't know how to generate power while doing their moves.
 
To use this awful thread for my own agenda:

There used to be a wrestling highlight vid of a wrestler who was smooth like butter. It looked he was psychic and knew all of his opponents responses, and wrecked their shit. I'm 80% sure he was russian/eastern bloc. It used to be my go to video whenever I saw people like this, to try and help them see that their were just misinformed about the art of wrestling. In my long absence from forums, however, I lost it. Or it might have gone off youtube. Anyone have similar videos on this?
 
yetanother said:
People grip stuff hard in jiu jitsu and will cling on for dear life. I don't see the Miyaos using that much power with their berimbolos (compared to lifting somebody in the air).
I don't view doing things without power as superior to using it when it helps. Lower level judokas aren't more technical or superior in any way because they don't know how to generate power while doing their moves.
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Learning to use technique is very important in your development. Once you learn how to use technique then you learn how to use power and strength while using proper technique.
 
DatCutman said:
There used to be a wrestling highlight vid of a wrestler who was smooth like butter. It looked he was psychic and knew all of his opponents responses, and wrecked their shit. I'm 80% sure he was russian/eastern bloc. It used to be my go to video whenever I saw people like this, to try and help them see that their were just misinformed about the art of wrestling. In my long absence from forums, however, I lost it. Or it might have gone off youtube. Anyone have similar videos on this?
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Any of these ought to work https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=buvaisar+satiev+highlight
 
PointyShinyBurn said:
Any of these ought to work https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=buvaisar+satiev+highlight
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Bingo! Thank you.

Now just the inevitable countdown until someone says that he learned the Uchi Mata in Judo class and brought it over to wrestling, that the only technical parts of wrestling are from Judo, and ergo, Judo wins again. I dream of the day where I no longer have to suffer the fantasy that all the ex-Soviet country wrestlers are secretly just judo/sambo guys who were forced to relinquish their jackets for a few hours while they stepped on the Olympic stage to easily vanquish the non-technical jacket-free wrestlers.
 
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I love Judo....

But I'll never rip on wrestling because 7 out of 10 times with open rules, wrestlers will dominate us Judoka.

Olympic rules has drastically changed the way Judo is developing.
 
I've trained heavily in wrestling, judo, and BJJ, and I'd say that all have their specific way of being "efficient in motion". Some of wrestlers' moves, such as the ankle pick and inside trip, are very energy efficient. Wrestling techniques have worked for me to pick apart heavier, higher level guys' defenses, but so have Judo throws. Everything works in your own way. You can scramble and be strength based in judo, you can be technical and tricky in wrestling.
 
Sambo combines both, thus is superior. :D
 
jack36767 said:
It’s either a troll thread or he’s serious. Either way, 4/10
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This guy said guard was useless, because the other guy can just grab your balls.

I actually appreciate his last effort and this one, too. 7.5/10
 
This is exactly why you see so many high level judokas rag dolling the few wrestlers in MMA. They are just that more efficient when there arent so many rules and regulations. Just constantly throwing guys and taking home the belt.
 
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