Jon Jones Team STILL hasn’t found anything to blame this on...

Hopefully his suspension starts from the hearing date.

Currently pushing the date back is without consequence for someone who knows he is guilty and just gives time to create bullshit evidence.
 
If im Jones i blame it on tainted whey powder.
 
MastiffMike said:
Yes and no.

I agree the legwork of defense takes time and so am not at all surprised to see it postponed. FWIW (little?) the last time he popped it took 3 weeks for Jones' team to find and submit the "dick pills", so it didn't take this long last time. I realize circumstance might have been different, but more likely is that they're still looking to find a "tainted supplement".

But I disagree that it'll do him any good. I think if this were Jones' first failed test then he might be able to game the system enough to get a reduced suspension. However, it didn't work the first time he tried it, where he received the maximum suspension and was found "reckless", even though he tried to argue his case was similar to Means and Romero's tainted supplement cases (the arbitration panel disagreed). Heck, his dick pill excuse was pretty simple but yet Jones and his people couldn't even get that story consistent. There were multiple inconsistencies and of course it never passed the sniff test (Jones' is at the gym and asks a teammate for a single dick pill, which the teammates gets out of his car and gives to Jones, who then proceeds to swallow it right then and there without even questioning anything).

BTW, the full 29 page Arbitration Report from Jones' first "dick pill" failure can be found here (it's an interesting read):
http://thewhitebronco.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Jon-Jones-Arbitration-Decision.pdf
Last time Jones requested Arbitration about a month after his failed test, so I wonder if this time he's going to go the normal route or if at some point in the process he'll request arbitration? It took 3 months from the date arbitration was requested until the decision was written, so that's maybe an indicator of a potential future timeline (i.e. decided no sooner than Feb. 2018 and no later than May 2018).

To me there are 2 keys, both would need to happen for a reduction in sentence, and I doubt either do:
1. Jones has to find a supplement that has turinabol in it
2. It must be a supplement that Jones declared on his "Doping Control Form"

Either of the above don't help without the other. Jones was found "reckless" and even if he found a tainted supplement, if he didn't put it on the form minutes prior to the test, he's screwed. According to the Arbitration Decision Jones has been inconsistent with what he's declared taking. He declared he was taking no substances on 12-8-15, 12-22-15, 3-4-16, 3-25-16, 4-4-16, 6-16-16 (the test he failed). However, one time (4-23-16) sandwiched in all those test dates, he declared 8 substances. So IMO Jones likely takes a bunch of supplements (and roids) but is too lazy to list them like he's supposed to. The one time he did list 8 substances, I'm guessing he was worried about failing (due to his cycle) and tried to cover his butt and set the ground work for a tainted supplement defense by listing 8 items.

Those 2 points are just the beginning though. Beyond that he'll need receipts/container for said supplement and USADA will have to verify it with Jones' provided supplement sample, as well as an independently sourced bottle of the supplement. Complicating matters is the fact that the supplement needs to have turinabol in it, but not any other banned substances (since he didn't fail for any others). The tainted supplements I'm familiar with tend to be tainted with multiple unlabelled substances, not just one. And the "dick pills" were found to have 3 banned substances, yet Jones tests only showed 2. Then there's his questionable blood work and other outside the cage history which could also play into Aggravating Circumstances.

By now, I'd think that USADA would have enough testing history on Jones and his Biological Passport to really dig into his samples. Fortunately for Jones, USADA probably doesn't have access to his pre-USADA samples or they'd go back and retest those. Remember, USADA has gone back and retested Olympic samples and busted a TON of athletes that originally tested "clean". Certainly Jones' tests from the first DC fight had some abnormalities, but that was pre-USADA so not much help now.

Again, I'll say IMO Jones gets minimum 4 years but probably will get 4-6 months additional tacked onto that (thus my assertion he'll get suspended 48-54 months). And of course Jones will continue to be tested that whole time and we know he won't be able to go that long without f@cking up, so likely Jones will never fight again (though he may some day with the UFC's permission, do WWE).
Click to expand...

TLDR version: Bones is boned.
 
"They are currently working on testing supplements he took that might have been contaminated and sprung the positive test."

giphy.gif
 
Honestly it’s just bizarre that some people still somehow believe Jones. Kind of sad.
 
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Cocaine is one hell of a drug
 
MastiffMike said:
Yes and no.

I agree the legwork of defense takes time and so am not at all surprised to see it postponed. FWIW (little?) the last time he popped it took 3 weeks for Jones' team to find and submit the "dick pills", so it didn't take this long last time. I realize circumstance might have been different, but more likely is that they're still looking to find a "tainted supplement".

But I disagree that it'll do him any good. I think if this were Jones' first failed test then he might be able to game the system enough to get a reduced suspension. However, it didn't work the first time he tried it, where he received the maximum suspension and was found "reckless", even though he tried to argue his case was similar to Means and Romero's tainted supplement cases (the arbitration panel disagreed). Heck, his dick pill excuse was pretty simple but yet Jones and his people couldn't even get that story consistent. There were multiple inconsistencies and of course it never passed the sniff test (Jones' is at the gym and asks a teammate for a single dick pill, which the teammates gets out of his car and gives to Jones, who then proceeds to swallow it right then and there without even questioning anything).

BTW, the full 29 page Arbitration Report from Jones' first "dick pill" failure can be found here (it's an interesting read):
http://thewhitebronco.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/Jon-Jones-Arbitration-Decision.pdf
Last time Jones requested Arbitration about a month after his failed test, so I wonder if this time he's going to go the normal route or if at some point in the process he'll request arbitration? It took 3 months from the date arbitration was requested until the decision was written, so that's maybe an indicator of a potential future timeline (i.e. decided no sooner than Feb. 2018 and no later than May 2018).

To me there are 2 keys, both would need to happen for a reduction in sentence, and I doubt either do:
1. Jones has to find a supplement that has turinabol in it
2. It must be a supplement that Jones declared on his "Doping Control Form"

Either of the above don't help without the other. Jones was found "reckless" and even if he found a tainted supplement, if he didn't put it on the form minutes prior to the test, he's screwed. According to the Arbitration Decision Jones has been inconsistent with what he's declared taking. He declared he was taking no substances on 12-8-15, 12-22-15, 3-4-16, 3-25-16, 4-4-16, 6-16-16 (the test he failed). However, one time (4-23-16) sandwiched in all those test dates, he declared 8 substances. So IMO Jones likely takes a bunch of supplements (and roids) but is too lazy to list them like he's supposed to. The one time he did list 8 substances, I'm guessing he was worried about failing (due to his cycle) and tried to cover his butt and set the ground work for a tainted supplement defense by listing 8 items.

Those 2 points are just the beginning though. Beyond that he'll need receipts/container for said supplement and USADA will have to verify it with Jones' provided supplement sample, as well as an independently sourced bottle of the supplement. Complicating matters is the fact that the supplement needs to have turinabol in it, but not any other banned substances (since he didn't fail for any others). The tainted supplements I'm familiar with tend to be tainted with multiple unlabelled substances, not just one. And the "dick pills" were found to have 3 banned substances, yet Jones tests only showed 2. Then there's his questionable blood work and other outside the cage history which could also play into Aggravating Circumstances.

By now, I'd think that USADA would have enough testing history on Jones and his Biological Passport to really dig into his samples. Fortunately for Jones, USADA probably doesn't have access to his pre-USADA samples or they'd go back and retest those. Remember, USADA has gone back and retested Olympic samples and busted a TON of athletes that originally tested "clean". Certainly Jones' tests from the first DC fight had some abnormalities, but that was pre-USADA so not much help now.

Again, I'll say IMO Jones gets minimum 4 years but probably will get 4-6 months additional tacked onto that (thus my assertion he'll get suspended 48-54 months). And of course Jones will continue to be tested that whole time and we know he won't be able to go that long without f@cking up, so likely Jones will never fight again (though he may some day with the UFC's permission, do WWE).
Click to expand...
You're starting with the presumption that his supplement was not tainted, the tainted is used to suggest that the same machine that the manufacturer used to pack his supplement pill was used before to pack a pill that contained turinabol, we often see warnings on products that don't contain egg on their formula, and yet the manufacturer advice that it might contain traces of egg/shrimp/peanut/whatever, so they're not reliable if some alergic dude chokes and die from eating something that he was supposedly allowed.

That happens all the time, when you buy an aspiring it is 98% aspirin and 2% pick-your-guess (it's not exactly like that, they have machines solely dedicated to create aspirins in a large industry complex, while supplements are way more homegrown than that, but I hope you got the idea), hence why fighters like to pursue this probability, but then Jones would have to ask manufacturer where could he other pack of the same supplement and if possible same lot, from there if they find trace amounts of turinabol at it they have reasonable doubt, and have to let him go unscathed.

Other possibility is the manufacturer willfully omitting important information, for example we have ephedrine, which is prohibitted in plenty of countries, so the manufacturer just add a little bit to give it a boost and nobody except people who are going to checked by USADA will care for.
Beware that I'm not trying to defend Jones, but people are often too eager to cut the defendant any slack and jump directly to the conclusion that the fighter was well aware and had the intent to cheat, that is not fair.
Still it is a far shot to try and find a tainted supplement linked to the same supplement Jones took, but if they manage to do so in a valid legal method he do deserve the in dubio pro reo. (Benefit of doubt)

This behavior of not declaring his supplements is kinda strange, had him at least declared his legal supplements he could use it as a culprit/escapegoat on this PED talk, we have still to know why, and it pretty much serves as a proof against him.
 
it's a different game now as the dodgy owners ferttitas are not there so cant help out with corruption
 
baba2008 said:
It takes time to create some foreign supplement company, bribe some people, fake some orders and deliveries .. it's a logistical nightmare - it's going to take some time.
Click to expand...

watch-better-call-saul-online.png
 
It's dem GAT supplements jones. They are screwing you!
 
Sadly he is screwed no matter what. He was deemed reckless the last time. No excuse now..
 
I hope he gets 4 years. He deserves it at this point. What I am more interested in is moving the LHW division forward. Announce the next fight already. With Volkan's issues, I expect Gus will be given the next shot at DC. Get it done, UFC. I want to see that fight! First fight was a war and I'd like to run it back.
 
MastiffMike said:
I'm starting with LOGIC, not "presumption that his supplement was not tainted".

Supplements tainted with banned substances isn't THAT common. And one tainted with turinabol is super rare. My understanding is that turinabol hasn't been manufactured for decades, but regardless, REPUTABLE companies do clean their machines between product runs. And since USADA recommends avoiding questionable sources, and Jones was told directly that after his last failed test, there's no excuse for him to have turinabol in any of his legit supplements. If he popped for something legal but on the banned list then maybe he'd have a chance, but not for turinabol.

Ultimately Jones is responsible for what he puts into his body and was already found "reckless" to the point that he received the maximum penalty. This time isn't much different. Nobody bought his inconsistent excuse last time and I'm 99.9% sure that nobody will buy his excuses this time. Also he has a history of not learning from his mistakes (e.g. multiple DUIs) and a history of questionable test results. So IF it was a tainted supplement (and nobody should be buying that), he ignored the Arbitration Panel's ruling and USADA recommendations and got it from a disreputable manufacturer which won't change the fact he's screwed.

One of the keys from his last failure that may heavily influence the outcome of this one is that he was found to have not "knowingly" cheated, but yet was reckless and didn't do due diligence as to what he put into his body. The UFC Anti-Doping policy states "it is not necessary that intent, fault, negligence or knowing use on the athlete’s part be demonstrated in order to establish an anti-doping policy violation for use of a prohibited substance or a prohibited method." And so Jones received the maximum suspension. This time, at the BEST, he did the same thing and since it's not his first time he shouldn't get any leniency (and I don't think he will).

A successful tainted supplement is rare, and one used as a defense that actually reduces the punishment is even rarer.

For reference, there are 7 "supplements" on USADA's high risk list found to contain Turinabol but all either:
  1. Have turinabol listed on the ingredients
  2. Have other banned substances on the ingredients
  3. Have names like "anabolic" "mass stack" or even flat out state they contain "selective androgen receptor modulator"
So Jones shouldn't have been taking any of those.

In summary, Jones popped for an actual PED, not a masking agent or diuretic or IV or some other plausibly deniable substance. More often than not I think athletes throw out the "tainted supplement" excuse as a hail mary to sway some less informed decision makers (like a local commission rather than the most respected global testing company). I'm sure a lot of athletes that claim tainted supplements do so with the hope/knowledge that it'll at least plant a seed of doubt in the minds of their fans and those of sponsors. In any case, I'm not aware of a single tainted supplement case where the banned substance was turinabol, and I don't think that's going to change in Jon's case.
Click to expand...


Ding Ding ding.

Aside from the clear and logical argument above, just think about all the additional facts. The possibility for anything other than the obvious: Jones took steroids... seems so remote:

-Multiple people from his camp have popped
-His brother popped for PEDs recently
-He's a proven bad decision maker and liar
-He's tested positive before, with again a very hard to believe excuse
-He's levels throughout his career have always been sucpicious
-The obvious difference in body change right before he popped:
2E9785E300000578-3325137-Jon_Jones_shows_off_the_effects_of_his_seven_month_powerlifting_-a-4_1447929903202.jpg



Use some common sense, what are the chances he could be telling the truth this time? .0000000000000000000000001% sounds about right to me.
 
BigBadBruins said:
The fact that they are taking so long to make a decision does seem fishy.
Click to expand...
its called due process.

and its the athletic commission hearing thats been postsboned, nothing to do with usada
 
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