Jon Jones is Sherdog.com's new #1 pound-for-pound fighter in the world. What say you?

[bubkusjones]

Hardy - lol, not even worth going into
Koscheck - has been finished by Drew Fickett, Paulo Thiago and Robbie Lawler (but not GSP
Shields - barely got past Martin Kampmann, but KTFO in the first round in his very next fight
Condit - his best win in years
Diaz - coming off a loss and a year-long layoff


See how easy that is?

With the exception of Nick Diaz, all of those were coming off multiple wins, and Nick's loss was very close and highly debated with many people convinced he should've won. Nick was also the former Strikeforce WW Champion.

With the exception of Jake Shields (who moved down from MW), were all long-time welterweights. Jake also had wins over the likes of Carlos Condit (GSP's best win, as you say), Robbie Lawlor (who went on to beat Koscheck), Martin Kampmann (who beat Carlos Condit) Paul Daley, (MW title challenger) Yushin Okami and MW/LHW great Dan Henderson. He was also the former Strikeforce MW Champion.

Do the numbers, and at the time of their fights with Jon Jones, his 5 title defenses were a combined 114-35 (again at the time of their fights, not counting fights after), for a 76.5% win rate. GSP's last five were 118-28, for a 80.82% win rate (again, leading up to their fights with GSP, fights after are not included).

 

[misfitofscience]

People can admit that Jones attracts bizarre and irrational hatred, right? So since that's true, filter their responses to this question through that knowledge.

 

[_Keyser_Soze_]

GSP should be #1.

Faced far tougher competition of late, and has been a dominant champ for far longer.

What is "of late" in terms of months and/or years? Since this is subjective, I'll pick some random time frame to compare the two. Let's take 3.5 years....

GSP since the beginning of 2010.
2010 - Dec W over Hardy
2010 - Dec W over Kos
2011 - Dec W over Shields
2012 - Dec W over Condit
2013 - Dec W over Diaz

Jones since the beginning of 2010.
2010 - TKO Vera
2010 - TKO Janitor
2011 - Sub Bader
2011 - TKO Rua
2011 - Sub Rampage
2011 - Sub Machida
2012 - Dec Evans
2012 - Sub Vitor
2013 - TKO Chael

So in three and a half years - GSP has TWO impressive wins (Condit, Diaz - and FWIW, I think Nick Diaz is vastly overrated - but whatever. Kos? TUF hype product. Hardy? Hahaha. Shields who had lost his previous fight to Martin Kampmann? Nah.

Jones beat some guys that were ... "aging" (Rua, Rampage) but there's no fucking comparison in resumes. Now, if you want to go to the last year - that's your decision. It's also ridiculous - but whatever. You can cherry pick.

For the record, I'm not a Jones apologist. But his resume in the last three and a half years blows GSP's out of the fucking water.

/thread.

 

[eXtv]

People can admit that Jones attracts bizarre and irrational hatred, right? So since that's true, filter their responses to this question through that knowledge.

Yeah, and everyone loves GSP, it's not like he gets hated on more than pretty much every fighter ever...

 

[cyrusthevyrus]

Dude GSP is nr 1 !! i dont understand. where is the logic? no fight for gsp or jones, so anderson reversed the order??

 

[eXtv]

What is "of late" in terms of months and/or years? Since this is subjective, I'll pick some random time frame to compare the two. Let's take 3.5 years....

GSP since the beginning of 2010.
2010 - Dec W over Hardy
2010 - Dec W over Kos
2011 - Dec W over Shields
2012 - Dec W over Condit
2013 - Dec W over Diaz

Jones since the beginning of 2010.
2010 - TKO Vera
2010 - TKO Janitor
2011 - Sub Bader
2011 - TKO Rua
2011 - Sub Rampage
2011 - Sub Machida
2012 - Dec Evans
2012 - Sub Vitor
2013 - TKO Chael

So in three and a half years - GSP has TWO impressive wins (Condit, Diaz - and FWIW, I think Nick Diaz is vastly overrated - but whatever. Kos? TUF hype product. Hardy? Hahaha. Shields who had lost his previous fight to Martin Kampmann? Nah.

Jones beat some guys that were ... "aging" (Rua, Rampage) but there's no fucking comparison in resumes. Now, if you want to go to the last year - that's your decision. It's also ridiculous - but whatever. You can cherry pick.

For the record, I'm not a Jones apologist. But his resume in the last three and a half years blows GSP's out of the fucking water.

/thread.

Of late in terms of his entire career, and of the last 6 months.

Jon has beat lots of big names but none of them (except Rashad) were in prime form or coming off of big win streaks like GSP's opposition has.

Jon has more wins that Georges over the past 3 years but none of them (bar Rashad) were outright elite fighters in their prime forms. Quality > Quantity.

 

[MikeyLan]

Of course you have to look at their records and their competition, but the poster that said it's only about the resume and not finishes, etc. was just plain wrong. How a fighter wins is of course relevant to the discussion. That doesn't mean it always has to be a finish by any means. For example, GSP passed Silva briefly after the first Sonnen fight, and GSP fans were quick to say GSP was no.1 because he dominated his recent wins while Silva was 2 minutes from losing. If we ONLY look at the resume and now how the fights were won or lost, then it shouldn't matter (a) that Silva got his ass kicked for 23 minutes; or (b) that Silva won by a finish. It would just be a win. And GSP's win over Hardy would be the same as Silva's win over Sonnen so Silva would get more credit because Sonnen is better than Hardy. But that's not the reality of those two fights. In reality, GSP dominated Hardy from bell-to-bell while Silva barely escaped with a win, so GSP should get more credit for that win.

I agree.

 

[_Keyser_Soze_]

With the exception of Nick Diaz, all of those were coming off multiple wins, and Nick's loss was very close and highly debated with many people convinced he should've won. Nick was also the former Strikeforce WW Champion.

With the exception of Jake Shields (who moved down from MW), were all long-time welterweights. Jake also had wins over the likes of Carlos Condit (GSP's best win, as you say), Robbie Lawlor (who went on to beat Koscheck), Martin Kampmann (who beat Carlos Condit) Paul Daley, (MW title challenger) Yushin Okami and MW/LHW great Dan Henderson. He was also the former Strikeforce MW Champion.

Do the numbers, and at the time of their fights with Jon Jones, his 5 title defenses were a combined 114-35 (again at the time of their fights, not counting fights after), for a 76.5% win rate. GSP's last five were 118-28, for a 80.82% win rate (again, leading up to their fights with GSP, fights after are not included).

Disingenuous to simply use the pre-title fight records and say GSP is more impressive. Shields built his win streak up in Strikeforce facing guys that were ... not the cream of the crop - or in Hendo's case, couldn't fucking cut weight without gassing in the second round. Diaz? Please. Name ONE top five win he has in his fucking career. Thanks. Condit is legit. Hardy? Another guy with zero top five wins to get a title shot. So you consider a win over Marcus Davis to be equal to Rua beating Machida? Gotcha.

The guys that Jones beat were fighting each other, or other top fighters. Who had Rashad lost to before facing Jones? Machida. That's it. Machida's losses? Rua, Rampage. Do you fucking see the difference? Stats can say whatever you want, but anyone with a brain realizes that Jones' pelts are far more impressive than GSP's.

With the exception of Condit.

 

[SocraticMethod]

Lol @ saying Chael is a more legit challenger than Hardy. What was Chael's record at LHW going into that fight? His Top 10 wins? Your bias is showing.

Vitor might not have lost to anyone else but he hasn't fought anyone elite before then anyway. He was like the +550 underdog for the Jones fight and with good reason.

Rampage couldn't even finish Matt Hammil and you think he was a legit challenger for Jon? No way. Rampage hasn't been like his old self since the Hendo fight, and was again a huge underdog against Jon. He also lost his next 2 fights after, one being against Ryan Bader.

Lyoto has great skills but was on a bad skid and hadn't beaten a ranked opponent since May 2009 (over 2 and a half years earlier). It was the wrong time for him to get a title shot, but now he is the most deserving contender.

Shogun was coming off of the Machida win(s) but it is undeniable that he had a long layoff in which he had multiple surgeries that he has never come back the same from. A great win, but tainted.

GSP might not finish, but that's his style. He still hasn't had a round of MMA unanimously scored against him since the first BJ fight, and is statistically the most dominant fighter in the history of the sport when it comes to winning rounds and controlling his opponents.

Oh, and he's been the champ for just as long as Jon has been a pro fighter. Let that sink in for a minute.

This is silly, man. "Rampage couldn't even finish Matt Hamill." Well, Hardy couldn't finish Swick, Shields couldn't finish Kampmann, Koscheck couldn't finish Daley, Diaz couldn't finish getting on a plane - and you think they're legit contenders?

Do you not see how easy it is to discredit guys to try make someone look weak? That's what you're doing with Jones. I could easily go back through GSP's last 5 and make all the same criticisms that you're making about Jones' resume. Then we could do Anderson. Then Fedor. Then Hughes. Etc., etc., etc.

I think GSP's resume is amazing. But so is Jon Jones'. If you think GSP's is better, and if you think he should be ranked no. 1, that's perfectly reasonable. GSP is great, one of the greatest ever. But you didn't just say that - instead you tried to pick apart every guy Jones has fought the last two years to make his resume look shitty so that it was so clear that GSP's resume was better. Well, it's not so clear. A lot of people agree with you, a lot of people don't. That's because they've both fought great fighters and have both dominated great fighters.

 

[Exemplar]

I have to say I find it interesting that multiple folks are identifying GSP's recent win over Condit as a bolster to his win streak. I agree with this by the way. It's simply interesting seeing a roster of GSP's opponents and having Condit be recognized as his toughest opponent since either his loss to Serra or bouts with Hughes.

 

[Fury]

Troll

Probably has a learning disability....so window licker is more appropriate

 

[cyrusthevyrus]

What is "of late" in terms of months and/or years? Since this is subjective, I'll pick some random time frame to compare the two. Let's take 3.5 years....

GSP since the beginning of 2010.
2010 - Dec W over Hardy
2010 - Dec W over Kos
2011 - Dec W over Shields
2012 - Dec W over Condit
2013 - Dec W over Diaz

Jones since the beginning of 2010.
2010 - TKO Vera
2010 - TKO Janitor
2011 - Sub Bader
2011 - TKO Rua
2011 - Sub Rampage
2011 - Sub Machida
2012 - Dec Evans
2012 - Sub Vitor
2013 - TKO Chael

So in three and a half years - GSP has TWO impressive wins (Condit, Diaz - and FWIW, I think Nick Diaz is vastly overrated - but whatever. Kos? TUF hype product. Hardy? Hahaha. Shields who had lost his previous fight to Martin Kampmann? Nah.

Jones beat some guys that were ... "aging" (Rua, Rampage) but there's no fucking comparison in resumes. Now, if you want to go to the last year - that's your decision. It's also ridiculous - but whatever. You can cherry pick.

For the record, I'm not a Jones apologist. But his resume in the last three and a half years blows GSP's out of the fucking water.

/thread.

dude, before the anderson fight, GSP was in front. where is the logic in this? anderson reversed the order?

 

[MikeyLan]

What is "of late" in terms of months and/or years? Since this is subjective, I'll pick some random time frame to compare the two. Let's take 3.5 years....

GSP since the beginning of 2010.
2010 - Dec W over Hardy
2010 - Dec W over Kos
2011 - Dec W over Shields
2012 - Dec W over Condit
2013 - Dec W over Diaz

Jones since the beginning of 2010.
2010 - TKO Vera
2010 - TKO Janitor
2011 - Sub Bader
2011 - TKO Rua
2011 - Sub Rampage
2011 - Sub Machida
2012 - Dec Evans
2012 - Sub Vitor
2013 - TKO Chael

So in three and a half years - GSP has TWO impressive wins (Condit, Diaz - and FWIW, I think Nick Diaz is vastly overrated - but whatever. Kos? TUF hype product. Hardy? Hahaha. Shields who had lost his previous fight to Martin Kampmann? Nah.

Jones beat some guys that were ... "aging" (Rua, Rampage) but there's no fucking comparison in resumes. Now, if you want to go to the last year - that's your decision. It's also ridiculous - but whatever. You can cherry pick.

For the record, I'm not a Jones apologist. But his resume in the last three and a half years blows GSP's out of the fucking water.

/thread.

This is how I do it.

I look at

1. last 3 fights
2. last 3 years
3. entire career

But I give the most importance weight to 1 and the least importance weight to 3.

Jones wins 1 and 2. Jones is P4P #1.

 

[eXtv]

This is silly, man. "Rampage couldn't even finish Matt Hamill." Well, Hardy couldn't finish Swick, Shields couldn't finish Kampmann, Koscheck couldn't finish Daley, Diaz couldn't finish getting on a plane - and you think they're legit contenders?

Do you not see how easy it is to discredit guys to try make someone look weak? That's what you're doing with Jones. I could easily go back through GSP's last 5 and make all the same criticisms that you're making about Jones' resume. Then we could do Anderson. Then Fedor. Then Hughes. Etc., etc., etc.

I think GSP's resume is amazing. But so is Jon Jones'. If you think GSP's is better, and if you think he should be ranked no. 1, that's perfectly reasonable. GSP is great, one of the greatest ever. But you didn't just say that - instead you tried to pick apart every guy Jones has fought the last two years to make his resume look shitty so that it was so clear that GSP's resume was better. Well, it's not so clear. A lot of people agree with you, a lot of people don't. That's because they've both fought great fighters and have both dominated great fighters.

Swick, Kampmann and Daley were all legit Top 10 guys in #1 contender fights. Hammil was not and not even close. That's where your comparison falls down. Not to mention that finishing at WW is alot harder than at LHW because they don't hit nearly as hard.

I have not tried to intentionally discredit and tear down Jones's accomplishments, he is the #2 guy P4P and has been extremely dominant. But I see his record as being full of big names and former champs but none of them were in Prime form or coming off of notable win streaks (except Rashad). That's where GSP's resume outclasses his.

 

[sevynnsynns]

He deserves it .

 

[theycallitMurda]

Andy isn't top 20.

 

[Post Crisis]

GSP should be number one. Two legit contenders beaten does not make you number one.

 

[RemoWilliams1a**]

GSP or Jones as #1 p4p is fine.

GSP should be ahead of Jones for GOAT still. But I still have Fedor and Anderson ahead of GSP for GOAT.

 

[Go2BATTLE83]

Well he was top three regardless, with GSP and Anderson. I think you can make a case for him or GSP, but I'd take Jones just because he hasn't dry humped his way to a win in his last 8 fights or whatever it has been, for GSP.

 

[ghoul]

Decent list, I'd switch some of them around, but I pretty much agree