Jon Jones blasts UFC for putting DC in GOAT discussion

dc007 said:
The sport is dirty. Pretending guys never used because they didn't pop means nothing.
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Strawman and non-point.

No is saying the sport is not dirty as we sees guys busted all the time.

the point you are missing is in a system like Pride where anyone was ALLOWED to use and some say it was encouraged no athlete finds themselves with a tough choice of having to decide if they jeopardize their careers if they want to use. You can. And if all do great. NO advantage.

In the UFC system or a testing system the decision to use comes with huge cost if you get caught. So if an athlete wants to compete clean and within the rules he is at a huge disadvantage to those who cheat. Does he accept that disadvantage or cheat too and risk getting popped?
 
Myrddin Wild said:
Has your leg ever done this?

F5xoSMZ.png


(that's not shooped by the way)

I have 2 points to make though, which may seem to contradict each other... but let it be known that I'm not trying to say what I think happened because we cannot know. There's no way to know. Above I'm just pointing out the flaw in your logic where you don't understand why Anderson couldn't of picked up some bad habits during & after that. It's amazing he came back at all.

Now my contradictory point is that "Everyone was on Steroids." I thought it was funny back when Nate said that & was said in jest, but as this USADA thing shook out... it's pretty plain to see that it's use was very wide spread. A lot more than most of us realized.

Pre-USADA steroid use gets a by... simply because it's pretty clear that everyone was doing it.

The only steroid use that gets you points against your Goatiness is Post-USADA use. I know it doesn't seem fair... because people who really thrive on PED's can't become the dominant world beaters of the past... but if all the top guys were using, back in the day... then it's all fair... so no foul.

Post-USADA we are now in an environment where we can assume most people are not using. So if someone gets caught cheating... that is much more valid than if someone was using pre-USADA.
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If Anderson was never popped for Steroids i doubt you and guys like Dozer would be saying he and everyone is on steroids. Seems convenient to say after the fact though.

My view does not change. If you have a life long aversion and revoltion to steroids and do not lie or respect steroid cheats and call them out as Anderson did, then I simply cannot beleive that in the twilight of your career when you are near retirement anyway, you would suddenly turn to steroids to get one last run, knowing you would be becoming the cheat you hate.

Fine if you need the steroids PERSONALLY for your recovery, Take them and retire out of the sight of testing.

But no fucking way I believe a guy who spent an entire prime career clean, is vocal about his dislike of steroid cheats, suddenly decides to use when he is near retired and out of his prime. You only use in that situation if you always used and think you can still get away with it.
 
Jones is just butthurt because talk of DC being in a GOAT discussion clearly implies that his own achievements are as legit as the proverbial tainted supplements. This is Jones now: busted and bitter.
 
MikeMcMann said:
If Anderson was never popped for Steroids i doubt you and guys like Dozer would be saying he and everyone is on steroids. Seems convenient to say after the fact though.
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It was the implementation of the USADA program that shined a light on it. Had nothing to do with Spider. I'm not sure what your point is of it "being convenient to say it after the fact." I'm just observing what's happening post-USADA & I honestly think Nate was right.

It's not even all the people who have popped. You got 3 tons of guys who didn't pop... but "mysteriously" started losing their KO power & sucking after USADA. Hendricks would be a very fine example of this, but there's A LOT of them I've noticed. Look through some OG records & see how relevant mid to late 2015 is for a lot of people's "mysterious" decline in abilities. I mean it's pretty obvious that a hell of a lot of the top guyz were juiced on something or other.

MikeMcMann said:
My view does not change. If you have a life long aversion and revoltion to steroids and do not lie or respect steroid cheats and call them out as Anderson did, then I simply cannot beleive that in the twilight of your career when you are near retirement anyway, you would suddenly turn to steroids to get one last run, knowing you would be becoming the cheat you hate.

Fine if you need the steroids PERSONALLY for your recovery, Take them and retire out of the sight of testing.

But no fucking way I believe a guy who spent an entire prime career clean, is vocal about his dislike of steroid cheats, suddenly decides to use when he is near retired and out of his prime. You only use in that situation if you always used and think you can still get away with it.
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I wonder how his finances were. If there were things he HAD to do to make money or all hell would break loose. His leg is killing him or whatever so he does what is necessary. All right then... I've presented my argument that the leg injury could've changed things. You can do with it what you wish.

I dunno... I'm just saying it's possible... & like I said previously, I personally "speculate" that he has been on it the whole time. He waz Koing everybody pre-USADA... WTF happened to that "mysterious" KO power?

Everyone waz on Steroids

Post-USADA most people are not on Steroids
 
Jones is a 2 time drug cheat. It would have been 3 times had he not hid under the cage for 8 hours avoiding a drug test. Jones has eliminated himself from GOAT talk. It's unfortunate really, because I believe Anderson was in GOAT talk too. But once again, 2 him drug cheat. You can't just look the other way on that.
 
The Schmoop said:
You consider Shogun, Rampage and Machida in their primes during that span?

That’s cool if you do. I disagree. There’s no doubt he was shredding legit competition. What he did to Bader, Hamil, Vera and whatnot was nothing short of impressive. He would have been champ without sauce but Shogun and Rampage were far from their best form. Machida might have still been in his prime. The rest were MWs.
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Yeah for me Shogun and Rampage weren't that far from their primes. Rashad was in his prime, Glover too. Also what Jones did to TRT Vitor, especially considering what a tear Belfort went on right afterwards
 
Myrddin Wild said:
It was the implementation of the USADA program that shined a light on it. Had nothing to do with Spider. I'm not sure what your point is of it "being convenient to say it after the fact." I'm just observing what's happening post-USADA & I honestly think Nate was right.

It's not even all the people who have popped. You got 3 tons of guys who didn't pop... but "mysteriously" started losing their KO power & sucking after USADA. Hendricks would be a very fine example of this, but there's A LOT of them I've noticed. Look through some OG records & see how relevant mid to late 2015 is for a lot of people's "mysterious" decline in abilities. I mean it's pretty obvious that a hell of a lot of the top guyz were juiced on something or other.



I wonder how his finances were. If there were things he HAD to do to make money or all hell would break loose. His leg is killing him or whatever so he does what is necessary. All right then... I've presented my argument that the leg injury could've changed things. You can do with it what you wish.

I dunno... I'm just saying it's possible... & like I said previously, I personally "speculate" that he has been on it the whole time. He waz Koing everybody pre-USADA... WTF happened to that "mysterious" KO power?

Everyone waz on Steroids

Post-USADA most people are not on Steroids
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Without a doubt I think we can see a clear Pre USADA and post USADA lull in some fighters like Hendricks. But that is not the case for everyone. We've seen GSP come back after a long lay off and lots of injuries and well past his prime and still look sharp albeit with less cardio and fewer tools than he had prior.

My point on it being convenient is that maybe not with you but certainly a clown like Dozer, if Anderson never popped he would not be saying 'everyone including Anderson is on drugs'. And now he says everyone is on drugs.

And again if you spend your life truly railing against steroids and hating and speaking out against the athletes who use them and you get thru the entire prime of your career without using and then towards your retirement you get an injury and think you cannot make it back without roids and you do that instead of retiring, I have to question that athlete. he was either a fickle, shallow critique prior of other fighters popped (as maybe they had an injury too and in their prime which is worse as those are their best earning years) or you were using all along. I see no option 3. Retire if the only path back is the drugs you hate, spoke out against, and do not respect other fighters for taking.

And if you don't and instead choose to fight as a user than all criticism are fair game imo.
 
MikeMcMann said:
Without a doubt I think we can see a clear Pre USADA and post USADA lull in some fighters like Hendricks. But that is not the case for everyone. We've seen GSP come back after a long lay off and lots of injuries and well past his prime and still look sharp albeit with less cardio and fewer tools than he had prior.

My point on it being convenient is that maybe not with you but certainly a clown like Dozer, if Anderson never popped he would not be saying 'everyone including Anderson is on drugs'. And now he says everyone is on drugs.

And again if you spend your life truly railing against steroids and hating and speaking out against the athletes who use them and you get thru the entire prime of your career without using and then towards your retirement you get an injury and think you cannot make it back without roids and you do that instead of retiring, I have to question that athlete. he was either a fickle, shallow critique prior of other fighters popped (as maybe they had an injury too and in their prime which is worse as those are their best earning years) or you were using all along. I see no option 3. Retire if the only path back is the drugs you hate, spoke out against, and do not respect other fighters for taking.

And if you don't and instead choose to fight as a user than all criticism are fair game imo.
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Well GSP has had one fight since USADA & it was way later & he looked a lot more sluggish so he's not the best example.

Here's a better example of an OG who kept it going Post USADA
iur


Mr. Shogun has won every post-USADA fight so far & isn't too far removed from the next title shot tbh.
 
Roljo said:
Yeah for me Shogun and Rampage weren't that far from their primes. Rashad was in his prime, Glover too. Also what Jones did to TRT Vitor, especially considering what a tear Belfort went on right afterwards
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Rashad was a solid win. The vitor win wasn’t that impressive considering he was almost finished by MW. Glover was good win, eye pokes or not as was Gus. Shogun was many years removed from his prime. He’s still a great fighter tho. Too many MWs in there for me to shoot in my pants over.
 
dc007 said:
Yeah USADA definitely helps but it's not ensuring a clean sport and I tend to think more are using than are not especially at the highest level.
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Man- I hate to agree but me eyes don't lie.
Youre probably right
 
Cormier deserves to be ranked ahead of Jones.

Jones can’t beat him without drugs.
 
MMAProfessional said:
People pretend that most of Fedors career he was not tested and a lot of fights encouraged to use. Not saying he's not clean but many fighters were clean until they actually had strict testing.
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Well it wouldn’t matter whether he was clean or not, anyway.
Pride didn’t test and it wasn’t against their rules.

He never tested positive for anything when he was subjected to testing.
Many guys he fought have failed tests on their records, as well as TRT.
Bigfoot, Werdum, Hendo, Tim Sylvia, Cro Cop, and Josh Barnett (fight was then canceled).
 
Myrddin Wild said:
Well GSP has had one fight since USADA & it was way later & he looked a lot more sluggish so he's not the best example.

Here's a better example of an OG who kept it going Post USADA
iur


Mr. Shogun has won every post-USADA fight so far & isn't too far removed from the next title shot tbh.
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Agree re Shogun, he is a true G.

Disagree re GSP not also being a good example. Being sluggish 4 years past your last fight, well past your prime and coming back from injury you should expect sluggish. If he came back not looking sluggish then THAT would make him not the best example.
 
dc007 said:
As long as Anderson continues to be in discussion and Fedor who spent most of his career in Japan with no testing, Jones should be as well. If you want to eliminate those guys, then sure.
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If Fedor was juiced so were his opponents so no advantage.

In the fights were Jones and Anderson popped their opponents were clean, unfair advantage.
 
cmw43 said:
If Fedor was juiced so were his opponents so no advantage.

In the fights were Jones and Anderson popped their opponents were "clean", unfair advantage.
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FFY
 
Dozer . said:
Which means everyone was on a level playing field
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True. Like I said love Andy but saying he never failed is kind of silly since the tests were so easy to beat.

I have no problem with PEDs though
 
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