Japanese Jujutsu vs. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

[Waxwingslain]

I seem to have triggered something of a flame-fest here. Oops.

 

[tequilaman]

I seem to have triggered something of a flame-fest here. Oops.

Nah. I was just in a bad mood. I was looking for a fight.

 

[otsukafan]

I'm not suprised to return and see you all dishonoring yourselves by swearing and infighting. You all lack harmony. Snake Boxing will not only bring you dominance over other grappling arts but also teach you inward harmony and the discipline you all seem to lack. Continue you on your destructive road, or come see me at the Gompa.

John Painter PHD

 

[tequilaman]

Not only are you wrong and have "flip-flopped" on most of your points, you know less about jiu jitsu than me, and you are a LIAR. And I don't PM, btw. I want everyone to see what Bullshit artist you are.

(Look at parantheses) ANd by the way, the reason I quote you, and you DON"T quote me, is because I have proof that you are wrong and a bull shit artist, and you know I'm right.

HAHA, I like how I'm a 'moron' and 'wrong' For posting the definitions YOU gave directly from Wikipedia. Surely you HAD to notice that's what I was doing, right?


I'm not a college kid, you imbecile. and your entire post is essentially you admitting I'm
right, but being a total moron about it.

(????? I tore you a new asshole dude and pointed about what a Bullshit artist you are... try again. The "i know-you-are-but-what-am-I?" defense doesn't work on me.) Thanks a lot for that.

and yes, your first statement was to madmonkeyBJJ was "dude! BJJ IS JJJ"

(Saying that BJJ is not from Japanese jiu-jitsu is like saying that modern folkstyle wrestling does not come from catch-as-catch wrestling. It is the grand-daddy of them all.)

I've proven over and over that you dont know what you're talking about, yet you post shit that agree's with my argument, not yours, and try to make me out to be a "college kid claiming to be an expert"

(LIAR. LIAR. LIAR. I said that BJJ is a derivative of JJJ. You said they had nothing to do with each other. YOU LIE. YOU ARE WRONG.)

So lets see:

1. You were wrong about the correct romanized spelling of jujutsu. You've been going on and on about ramanization and how it's really "accepted in American English as jiu jitsu"

(Jiu Jitsu is the most common spelling of the japanese word juu-jutsu in America. End of story. YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN.)

WHen you're completely wrong. Are you going to sit here and claim that you were the one arguing that the accepted translation was "jujutsu"? No, that was me, you've been arguing AGAINST THAT POINT You were wrong. I was right. Move on. The fact is, that this is wht we've been arguing about the entire damn time. Why can't you just shut up, bow respectfully, and admitt you were wrong? And that you learned something?

(I have been 100% consistent in what I have said here-> juu-jutsu is the Japanese romanization of the word that is commonly spelled as jiu jitsu in America. Juu-jutsu is the grandfather of BJJ. WHAT IS SO HARD TO UNDERSTAND ABOUT THAT?

2. You were wrong about what it means. Despite your squirming, "art" is the best ENGLISH interpretation of the word, as you kinda/sorta pussyfoot around. You're sitting here saying "well art can kinda mean technique, and er..." Just stop it. It's "art" not "technique" you were wrong, get over it. IT MEANS ART GOD DAMN IT. "Art" just happens to mean "perfecting technique" but that has nothing to do with anything.

(If you spoke Japanese like I do, you would know that "jutsu" actually means technique, but is commonly translated as "art" or "style". IT MEANS PERFECTION OF A TECHNIQUE. But because you do not speak Japanese nor have you studied Japan, I expect that you don't know this...)

3. You were wrong about the number and nature of the various Ryu's of jujutsu. There are and have been many, some think up to 800 over the course of japanese history. YOU HAVE NOT LEARNED ANCIENT JAPANESE JUJUTSU! You know as much about it as me, jack shit.

(Yes, I am sure there are many branches of jiu-jitsu. That much we can agree on.)

4. Your claim "want to see original jujutsu, look at a manual!" is nonsense, are no manuals of it date back that far. It is indeed factual that many people disagree as to what was originally taught. No one knows for sure.

(Jiu-jitsu is not that old dude. The techniques from 200 years ago, for example, are well documented. And there are actually books about it! And you can buy and read these, which for you, i recommend!)

5. Gracie Barra etc. are BRAZILIAN jiu jitsu schools, of course that's how they spell it you retard. The reason it is spelled like that, is because the Gracies used an INCORRECT/OUTDATED ramanization of the word. (the one you've been incorrectly using) The debate at hand is about japanese jujutsu, you lost it, I PM'd you with plenty of links to prove you did. Time to move on.

(Oh my God! He is right for once! They did use an outdated romanization! Your BULLSHIT assertion about the different spellings means that they come from different schools is blown out of the water??? Yes.)

5. Judo means gentle WAY (as you fully admit here) yet in your previous post you claim judo means gentle ART. Judo means "gentle art" where as jiu-jitsu means "gentle technique" the quote in bold is your response in post #48. (quick go edit your post!) Judo is a "way" Jujutsu is an "art" get it through your thick skull.

(Typo. I know what I am talking about. The other posts are correct. I don't need to edit my posts.)

6. You're wrong about my age. I'm 26. Ad Hominem debate tactics are the last resort of a desperate individual

(You act like a know-it-all college kiddie, so I just assumed.)

7. you're wrong about the very nature of traditional japanese jujutsu. It is primarily a **stand up grappling art** BJJ is a groud grappling art. There is a difference. While it is true that many of the same techniques were probably there, that doesot make the same at all, or even similiar. Both Kung Fu and Boxing have punches. They're entirely different arts.

(Boxing and kung-fu are from different traditions. BJJ comes from JJJ. That is what I have said since post 1. Irrelevant comments here.)

8. calling me "college kid" and "retard" when I'm actually taking the time to set you straight, is annoying. You've made many stupid claims, I've set you straight. You've now started to use MY arguments as if they were yours. as if you were teaching *me*

You are wrong, and you don't realize it. I am HELPING YOU. But you are too much of an arrogant prick whose Bullshit game has been exposed, and therefore you don't want to admit that you are wrong. Do pathological liars realize they can't help lying? Do you realize you are lying?

9. I never flip-flopped, you just took my statement out of context. The whole analoggy I have with the rat and whale describes how you can be derived from something through common anscestry, and how it differes from coming from directly. BJJ is derived from JJJ in that they both share a linking with Judo. Judo comes directly from JJJ, BJJ comes non-directly from mainstream Judo. (it was a particular style of judo the gracies learned, Kosen Judo) The reality of the situation is that Wrestling has much more influence with modern BJJ than traditional japanese jujutsu does

(<---- This last comment here proves to me that you are an IDIOT BULL SHIT ARTIST. BULLSHITER ALERT! BULLSHITER ALERT! Yes, I am sure that the many black belt jiu jitsu artists would say the same thing. That BJJ comes from wrestling more than jiu-jitsu! Ha! (Sarcasm again, buddy...)

10. I already asked you to continue this with me in PM, but it seems that in order to save face you've continued this here. Please stop.

As long as you keep posting these Bullshit claims, I will post them on the message board to expose you as the bullshit artist you are. WHAT DO YOU HAVE TO HIDE? Oh yeah, the fact that you know very little about jiu jitsu, Japanese, and martial arts in general...

 

[scotty1444]

cnt every1 just get along lllllllllloooooooooooollllllllllllllll

 

[scotty1444]

oh yeah soz 4 buttin in but so many people luk at dis 1 can any1 give me a gud dvd to pick to show me hw to escape frm submissions and for doin submissions cuz i need to wrok on my technique more cuz im doin loads of strength work if i get technique ill be on fire cheers and i dnt want to start rows incase i offend some1

 

[Joey Guidice]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jitsuman
and yes, your first statement was to madmonkeyBJJ was "dude! BJJ IS JJJ"

(Saying that BJJ is not from Japanese jiu-jitsu is like saying that modern folkstyle wrestling does not come from catch-as-catch wrestling. It is the grand-daddy of them all.)

I just want to clear this up....i agree 100% with you that BJJ comes from TJJ or JJJ. Which I said from the beginning. I just had a problem because you said they were the same thing. I understand that TJJ = JUDO = BJJ in a lineage sort of way but they are essential different arts now. Yes BJJ uses the original TJJ armlocks, chokes, positions etc, however it has been modified in such a way to increase the effectiveness against a larger and Resisting opponen. In the case of No-gi (which we could start a whole thread on not being BJJ at all but a separate form) BJJ modifies the effectiveness for an MMA setting.

Back to the point...i'm agreeing with you that BJJ comes from TJJ or JJJ. I just dont agree that they are the same thing. They have evolved into 2 separate forms or arts or techniques or "jutsu's" or whatever you want to call it. That is just my opinion and it is OK for two people to disagree, I just wanted to straighten out what i was trying to get across before.

AND FOR SCOTTY1444 - Check out http://www.bjjtapes.com/data/productcart/pc/viewCat_P.asp?idCategory=123

I recommend the Jacare instructional or the Marcio Feitosa. The Margarida one isint bad either.

 

[scotty1444]

thanks mad monkey apreciate it.

 

[physicaltherapy]

I'm not suprised to return and see you all dishonoring yourselves by swearing and infighting. You all lack harmony. Snake Boxing will not only bring you dominance over other grappling arts but also teach you inward harmony and the discipline you all seem to lack. Continue you on your destructive road, or come see me at the Gompa.

John Painter PHD

Will they give me that nice white wedding dress you're wearing at the Gompa?

 

[GracieStudent]

tequila and jitsuman now now. tisk tisk- go back to your rooms.

you guys should honestly just join forces. it'll be like, like, like ying and yang! i would just like to say i got confused throughout reading your posts, but to me your both democrats so obviously there's gonna be some hair pulling and eye gouging- remember the rules.. no fish hooking and no biting. if your gonna bite ears you gotta swallow. when he taps, you might not hear it though so i wouldn't recommend it. if your in danger have someone from your corner throw in the towel (make sure it doesn't land on my head cuz i won't see it). are you ready? are you ready? well hell then, let's git it on!!!!!!!!!

 

[pitviper259]

Will they give me that nice white wedding dress you're wearing at the Gompa?

lol i too was wondering that i dont want white though cause i dont want someone to spill blood all over my white dress when i rip out their spine with my awesome snake pull of death

 

[judogido]

I'm not suprised to return and see you all dishonoring yourselves by swearing and infighting. You all lack harmony. Snake Boxing will not only bring you dominance over other grappling arts but also teach you inward harmony and the discipline you all seem to lack. Continue you on your destructive road, or come see me at the Gompa.

John Painter PHD

LOL - I'm pretty sure this guys just stirring guys. He cant possibly be serious.

C'mon - who takes "Snake Boxing will not only bring you dominance over other grappling arts" seriously!!! Only 12 year olds are convinced THEIR style is THE style to beat all others. This guy is JUST KIDDING and you are all taking the bait... (hint: look at his avatar & tell me he is not joking)

 

[judogido]

tequila and jitsuman now now. tisk tisk- go back to your rooms.

you guys should honestly just join forces. it'll be like, like, like ying and yang! i would just like to say i got confused throughout reading your posts, but to me your both democrats so obviously there's gonna be some hair pulling and eye gouging- remember the rules.. no fish hooking and no biting. if your gonna bite ears you gotta swallow. when he taps, you might not hear it though so i wouldn't recommend it. if your in danger have someone from your corner throw in the towel (make sure it doesn't land on my head cuz i won't see it). are you ready? are you ready? well hell then, let's git it on!!!!!!!!!

You actually READ the posts? I scrolled really fast past it all.

 

[Shawn Hawk]

http://www.news.com.au/story/0,10117,17882109-1242,00.html

Read that article.

She didn't drop the banana, I threw it.

Abandon all your false arts and join me, join the team of victory. BANANA-FU.




BJJ might teach you to break a man's arm effortlessly, and Tibetan Snake Boxing may instruct you in the art of moving like you're in a homoerotic mime, but can they teach you to kill a man with FRUIT?


I didn't think so.

 

[judogido]

That's from my neck of the woods, Sydney Australia.

Love the old lady's spirit right up to the end though : "Comical to the end, the 73-year-old old quipped to friends and family while on her deathbed: "I can't believe after all this time it was a bloody banana that killed me."

 

[Flibb]

Originally Posted by Jitsuman
and yes, your first statement was to madmonkeyBJJ was "dude! BJJ IS JJJ"

(Saying that BJJ is not from Japanese jiu-jitsu is like saying that modern folkstyle wrestling does not come from catch-as-catch wrestling. It is the grand-daddy of them all.)

You are the liar.

Japanese Jiu Jitsu IS Brazilian Jiu Jitsu buddy.

 

[eddydbod]

sweet at the gompa , i can pay $600 fucking dollars to find my self in just 18 hours of training. Fucking amazing. I can't wait to go there come back and kill my old BJJ instructor(whome is a brown belt and teaching for free). That will school him.

 

[Tazz]

:icon_twis JJJ focuses on different aspects of fighting, in this case, Self defence. They're arent many offensive techniques in JJJ, though it is still probably one of the most effective and complete styles out there for pure self defence, nothing more, nothing less. BJJ is more of an offensive "attacking" side style, where you go straight in and attack.Another thing, BJJ is VERY effective for 1 on 1 street fights, though if its multiple attackers, then TJJ is SOMETIMES good depending on the situation. You see, how the fuck do you expect to grab someones wrist whilst they're aiming dozens of punches to your face? Its pretty hard, if not impossible. Still, JJJ's aim is not to fight, but to defend oneself. So its only real effectiveness is in defending yourself against an attacker, not defending yourself in a fight you just got into because you want to show the guy you can kick his ass.In my opinion, i didnt like TJJ, i quit it straight away... As for the pressure points nonsence, i can just grab a guys groin and shout out, "I call that the Penis-Hand 31 Pressure Point!". Who said that isnt a pressure point?:icon_twis.And BTW, A BJJer or Judo'er would kick a TJJ'ers ass anytime anyway, once the BJJ guy takes him to the ground, the TJJer is fucked. Once the Judo guy gets a good hold of the TJJer, the TJJer is fucked.

 

[FutureBxer]

the answer to this thread is



bjj is much more effective then JJJ.

bjj > jjj

end of thread

 

[Ghostrider]

the answer to this thread is



bjj is much more effective then JJJ.

bjj > jjj

end of thread

OK I disagree. Not flaming not trolling. I really disagree. This "my art is better than yours" argument ignores many factors. I disagree that it is essentially better. I agree that most BJJ practioners could dominate versus a JJJ on the ground. Stand up? No.
so the question is better at what? self-defense? groundfighting? Standup?

What happens when a JJJ player concentrates on ground game? Will he automatically lose if that in essence, is his specialty? Then again we go to who we are talking about here. A competitive young athlete or a middle age person looking increase his readiness in case of a self-defense situation?

A competitive BJJ player versus a JJJ player who only practices self defense (well rounded although not solely concnetrating on ground skills) will win.

A JJJ player who chooses to compete also will give the BJJ player or the judo player a challenge that will end with on eor the other winning depending on skill level, expertise, conditioning, stamina, mindset.

I may be wrong and so be it. I think the individual's physical fitness, goals, and level of knowledge do have something to do with this.