Japanese Jujutsu vs. Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

Discussion in 'Grappling Technique' started by Jimmy Cerra, Jan 19, 2006.

  1. Jimmy Cerra Amateur Fighter

    Jimmy Cerra
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    So I was fighting a brown belt in Japanese jujutsu tonight. I'm just a lowly one-stripe white belt in BJJ, yet I schoolled him! The brown belt submitted to me three times under ten minutes each time starting from standing. Complete pwnage.

    Now I am twenty pounds lighter and the dude was a beast, so this shouldn't be! Furthermore, he didn't even know how to do an armbar from guard. (Although, he never even got guard against me.) Why wasn't I destroyed? I don't think he was going easy.

    Is Japensese Jujutsu that bad compared with Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu?
     
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  2. Commissar Gold Belt

    Commissar
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    Did you fight under BJJ rules? Or was he allowed using the moves he learnt in Japanese Jujitsu?

    If he was allowed all his wristlocks, pressure point attacks, and the like, you'd probably get crushed.

    He trains under his rules, you train under yours. When he fights under yours, it's new to him.
     
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  3. kimurense Brown Belt

    kimurense
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    presure points?!?!? I hope you are joking...
     
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  4. Jimmy Cerra Amateur Fighter

    Jimmy Cerra
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    It was submission grappling. We really didn't formally agree to any rules: just whoever tapped out lost. Pressure points and wristlocks were allowed. In fact, I used a wrist lock on him once to set up a different submission!

    Also, wrist locks and pressure points are allowed in every BJJ competition I participated in too IIRC. They are just not that effective, IMHO.
     
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  5. Resident A-hole Orange Belt

    Resident A-hole
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    From what I've seen, JJJ focuses a lot on more on standing throws than groundwork, which explains why he owned you standing.

    But to answer your question, Yes- some japanese JJ students are that bad on the ground due to their focus being on other elements. They do not train in grappling very much, and almost never spar full contact submissions. A BJJ student with a few months experience would likely have more ground experience.
     
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  6. IMP OBLIVION RECORDER

    IMP
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    Pressure point is pinching your finger into his neck or behind his ear and I doubt you fight with that shit.
    He is probably one of those guys who train for 20 years come once a month and graduate once every 4 years.

    And as Japanese Ju Jutsu is not that widely spread standards of teaching seem to be lower.
     
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  7. scorcho Brown Belt

    scorcho
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    Japanese JJ frequently focuses much more on defending strikes for self-defense style situations, and often goes pretty easy on the groud fighting. Just a different training method.

    There is also a lot of variance in the skills and skill types of TJJ practicioners, because different teachers emphasize different things.
     
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  8. Jimmy Cerra Amateur Fighter

    Jimmy Cerra
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    Well... Resident A-hole, I completely dominated him standing and on the ground. You misread my post.

    IMP: He didn't try for many pressure points like that, even though I am not opposed to them. In fact I know of a few from independent study and athletic training in high school (including that pressure point). Although I don't use them very much since they are easy to counter and not that effective in real life. At least in my experience, the only ones that are useful are wrist locks and inner-thigh pressure points, and I only use them to set up other submissions.

    He did attempt a few throws I countered with my own takedowns. The brownie was in great shape and a few years younger than me (24). He told me that trained JJJ for 4 years. I was impressed before fighting him. I admit I am not the greatest BJJer by far, which is why I am puzzled that it was so lopsided. It was no contest I crushed him.

    So I'm unimpressed with JJJ right now. What rules would make it more fair? I'll ask him next time. Although I am loath to bring up rules - it was just a spontaneous submission wrestling match after TKD class. I.E. A 'You want to roll?' deal. I just want to have fun!

    Scorcho, that makes sense. But IMHO JJJ should be more complete. For example, he knew what an armbar was, but he didn't know an armbar from guard. Nor did he know how to escape side control (I had to show him). He could be great at BJJ if he tried it out, so I hope I converted him to the dark side! :icon_twis
     
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  9. Resident A-hole Orange Belt

    Resident A-hole
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    Oops, sorry I did misread that part. If he sucks both standing & on the ground after 4yrs of training, then I guess he just plain sucks. It sounds like he trains at a recreational club. They probably just learn self defense moves & practice them against non-resisting partners. He is likely one of those who could bend your arm behind your back if you "come at me like this...", but has no clue how to really fight. There is a JJJ school in the same building as my BJJ school, & I see them training when I walk thru. Far from hardcore.

    You could train like that for a decade & still get owned in a BJJ class. In any art, if you don't train hardcore & spar regularly, you won't be able to apply anything. This was probably a wake-up call for the guy. It's better he learns his training is bogus from a sparring session than in a real confrontation.

    I know a few judo guys (green & brown belts) from a pretty recreational club who have around 3yrs experience & I was able to beat them handily after a few months of training judo/BJJ. The club awards belts eventually to those who have time in but still aren't very good. It all depends on the individual & the club.
     
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  10. Joey Guidice Professional Fighter

    Joey Guidice
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    I'm a blue belt under the serra bros and i got to roll with a TJJ or JJJ black belt i'm not sure but it was the "small circle" jiu jitsu. It wasn't a challenge at all, i had his back choked him, armbars, triangles you name it. Wristlocks and pressure points were allowed. From my experience, JJJ is not that effective
     
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  11. Jiu-Jitsu Cop Green Belt

    Jiu-Jitsu Cop
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    I think it depends on the fighter. I sounds like the person he fought just sucked. I would not put down a style based only on fighting that one person. I have easly submitted BJJ black belts and have been submitted by white belts. It would not be fair if I based all of BJJ on the times that I beat the black belts. He should go fight more of their students, hey at least it would be a great workout.
     
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  12. Joey Guidice Professional Fighter

    Joey Guidice
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    What BJJ black belts have you submitted,...just curious cause thats a pretty big accomplishment??
     
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  13. aircal White Belt

    aircal
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    Ive trained in both JJJ and now BJJ and from what ive found in the JJJ the focus is fully on self defense while at BJJ it is on competition. That being said, in a grappling competition between two people each with similar training time from the two schools (jjj and bjj) i would bet 10:1 on the bjjer pulling a win. But i would also bet on the bjj person beeating out the jjj person in nhb streetfight as well. Why? Training methods.

    ALthough the jjj place i trained at is ground orientated (3/4 of training time) there is alot of wasted time working on stuff that would never work or is just highly impractical. As you all probably know, this is non existant or kept to a minimum at bjj.

    Even though most of the students at the jjj place know what an armbar or rnc is, i doubt if many of them could pull one off on a resisting opponent. Sparring is optional (and then only for a few minutes each day) at the jjj so this would affect how fast a student progresses (if at all) - there are many students there that i have never seen roll at all! Rolling live is the quickest way to improve and doing it everyday at bjj will produce the better fighter in any setting.

    From my experiences, I find that bjj training is alot more hardcore even though there are no "d3adly str33t techniques" and so a student with x amount of training time at a bjj academy will always beat out a student with the same amount of time at a jjj dojo.
     
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  14. Resident A-hole Orange Belt

    Resident A-hole
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    What is your training background?
    I would think the only people who could easily submit a BJJ blackbelt is another BJJ blackbelt. I don't think there are any "bad black belts" in BJJ. I doubt too may BJJ BBs are ever submitted by anyone lower than a BJJ brown.
     
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  15. colinm Brown Belt

    colinm
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    just to cover my ass, let it be known that i took tjj/jjj for about 6 months...

    the problem with tjj is a mix of the tequniques AND the training method, IMO. most of the standing locks are hard to apply against a resisting opponent because....well, they're ridiculous. on top of that, most tjj guys have seen armbars, triangles, rnc's, etc...they just have no idea how to really apply them because they never do randori.

    so, to answer your question, as far as grappling goes, yes tjj really is that bad.

    imo, judo is way more comparable to bjj than jjj...jjj is hardly jiu jitsu as a bjjer/mma fan recognizes it.
     
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  16. otsukafan Purple Belt

    otsukafan
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    Very few grappling arts understand the use of balance, pressure points and real joint locks. When I say joint locks I mean breaking things not bending things.

    Thats why I study Tibetan Snake Boxing. Nothing wrong with BJJ to get you started, but if you want to complete your grappling training come see me at the Gompa.

    http://www.thegompa.com/specialty.html

    John Painter PHD
     
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  17. colinm Brown Belt

    colinm
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  18. colinm Brown Belt

    colinm
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    whoa, wait...did you just make that pic your avatar a second ago, or am i THAT stoned,
     
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  19. otsukafan Purple Belt

    otsukafan
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    colin this has been my avatar since post #1
     
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  20. colinm Brown Belt

    colinm
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    well, fuck me...i should go sleep this off...
     
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