James Toney vs Andre Ward at 168 pounds

Discussion in 'Boxing Discussion' started by XThe GreatestX, Jul 9, 2018.

  1. XThe GreatestX

    XThe GreatestX Red Belt

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    who do you got?

    Andre was more consistent. James was more talented.

    If James shows up in shape and ready he probably wins.....

    But Ward was always very consistent so if James doesn’t show up in shape and ready Ward takes it.
     
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  2. Seano

    Seano Hands of bone

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    Thats a tough one.I don't believe Ward fought anyone that came close to having Toney's technical ability.

    I think I'd favor Toney. He was the more versatile fighter. Better puncher too.
     
  3. Mr.Maelstrom

    Mr.Maelstrom Girl in my av is MINE! DONT ASK HER NAME!

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    If we're talking best version of JT vs best version of Ward, Toney I'd think wins. But AW is easily the more reliable performer out of the two.
     
  4. borntoloseNOT

    borntoloseNOT Purple Belt

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    Damn, tough tough one. Toney is like my favorite fighter or one of my absolute favorites to watch... that being said, Ward is a technical and classy fighter in his own right. Would be an amazing fight. Ward only TALKED about HWT run though, Toney halfassed his training and still beat the shit out of Holyfield. It's hard to say, Toney is so hard to measure and Ward has never lost as a pro. Ill say Ward because he always found ways to win where as Toney found ways to lose. Hate picking against Toney, but many think McCallum beat James 1st time around, and Ward has proven to be a bodysnatcher himself.

    Damn, this is an impossible fight to pick because now Im leaning Toney as I think more about it. Not sure. Itd be a draw I guess.
     
  5. treelo

    treelo Black Belt

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    Toney really didnt do a lot at SMW and often looked laboured(especially in the Durham and Jones fights).

    Great MW career that is sometimes confused with his SMW fights
     
  6. XThe GreatestX

    XThe GreatestX Red Belt

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    I believe his decimation of Iran Barkley and Tim Littleswas was at 168

    And if we are gonna be honest here. I am pretty sure toney would have fucked up the british smw’s during that time in eubank,and benn if they would have fought him
     
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  7. Dr. Shoemaker

    Dr. Shoemaker ****BOILERPLATE**** Platinum Member

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    Toney wouldn’t be lost inside like so many of Wards opponents. If he could handle the Body Snatcher I think he’d deal with Wards inside game too. Andre would probably be the bigger guy though.

    160 and 168 Toney was usually a phenomenal athlete. I think he’d get more credit for that if he didn’t fight in the same era as Jones Jr. He could be outboxed though. Nunn was doing it from the outside until he got KOd. But I don’t think Ward could fight that same fight, and an inside war with James isn’t a guaranteed victory for Ward. Toney probably beats him to the punch more times than not.



    I’ll take JT.
     
  8. Dr. Shoemaker

    Dr. Shoemaker ****BOILERPLATE**** Platinum Member

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    Yeah Barkley was 168. Iran had so much scar tissue at that point it’s amazing the fight was sanctioned. Good performance by James but it’s always worth noting that he gave it against a blind man.
     
  9. cottagecheesefan

    cottagecheesefan Silver Belt

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    I was thinking of making a thread about Andre Ward vs Bhop or JT at 168. Regardless of where they did most of their careers, Bhop were pretty natural 168 pounders.

    I think both Beat Ward in very close fights.
     
  10. treelo

    treelo Black Belt

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    Fuck that, Nigel Benn destroyed Barkley in one round a few years earlier, he was pretty finished at the point when Toney fought him(some would even say Benn)

    I think a lot of people give Barkley too much credit because he beat Hearns when they were both completely and utterly shot.

    This has got absolutely nothing to do with Benn or Eubank, have you mentioned that to try and get a rise out of me?
     
  11. XThe GreatestX

    XThe GreatestX Red Belt

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    ? What do you mean get a rise out of you?

    I consider benn and eubank to be the two premier smws at the time ( although rjj and toney i think were more talented just not in the weight class long enough)

    Saying i think toney would have beaten them was my way of saying I think toney would have beaten the best smw had to offer at the time

    The Barkley point is a good one although Hearns was still pretty good when Barkley beat him
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2018
  12. JayE

    JayE Black Belt

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    Hearns wasn't completely and utterly shot when Barkley beat him. It was a shocking win, but Hearns showed to have more left in the tank after that against Leonard and Hill.
     
  13. treelo

    treelo Black Belt

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    Benn and Eubank were good fighters, i dont think anyone really considered them the best when the likes of Toney and Jones were knocking about, and they were pulling in huge numbers in the UK at the time, probably a similar situation to Joshua-Wilder now, so they didnt need to travel and take risks(and Toney and Jones felt the same way)

    Do you believe that?

    Leonard was completely shot as well as Barkley and Hearns, i think Hearns won a world title in a complete shock at the time, but nobody at the time thought he was any threat to the best fighters around at the time, he just managed to win a title
     
  14. JayE

    JayE Black Belt

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    Virgil Hill definitely was one of the better LHWs around when Hearns beat him (ring had him rated #1 at the weight). Even Leonard, while obviously being past his best and above his weight, wasn't thought of as being completely shot when Hearns deserved the win against him. Hearns wasn't completely shot after Barkley beat him the first time.
     
  15. XThe GreatestX

    XThe GreatestX Red Belt

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    If i may ask in this ward-toney fantasy match who would you favor
     
  16. PUO3

    PUO3 You are a can. Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    Boy Im struggling with an answer here. On paper I think Toney is the more gifted fighter but Ward is such a son of a bitch in the ring to figure out or keep him in one mode. Probably the best ring IQ and ability to adapt Ive ever seen.

    I think its an extremely close split decision type for whoever takes it. I give an ever so slight edge to Ward just for the fact that he shows up consistently and Toney could be somewhat hit or miss.
     
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  17. JayE

    JayE Black Belt

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    Depends on the day. Toney is the more talented fighter, clearly. He'd be arguably the first guy that Ward has ever fought who can nullify him on the inside (and arguably get the better of him from there). He hit far harder than Ward with both hands. On the hand, Toney was very inconsistent, and he could be out-boxed (his mediocre jab, particularly, would be an issue against Ward). Montell Griffin gave Toney fits with his jab and workrate, and Ward could definitely do the same. On their best days, I'd favour Toney to edge a decision. However, given the fact that I wouldn't be all that confident in seeing the best version of Toney, I think the most likely scenario very close fight, likely in a similar mold to the Toney/Griffin fights. In such a fight, Ward's jab and more consistent workrate might win him a narrow decision.
     
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  18. mozfonky

    mozfonky We oughta be fightin' a bottle of Geritol.

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    i don't know, toney was so lazy but he definitely had more skills and i think he proved his chin and heart. fast hands, but he tended to stay mobile when he fought, if andre can use some movement he could cause problems. I really haven't seen any of andre's fights outside of the last couple, toney should win but as we all know, he liked to eat and fuck around.
     
  19. treelo

    treelo Black Belt

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    Toney would not have beaten Ward, Toney relied on people coming onto his punches or being aggressive, didnt like the jab, and Ward is the exact opposite of what Toney wanted to fight.

    If Ward had bad stamina or a shaky chin, i would give Toney a chance, but Toney would lose a wide decision IMO.
     
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  20. PUO3

    PUO3 You are a can. Staff Member Senior Moderator

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    If I hadnt seen Ward eat Kova’s best punches I wouldnt have much confidence in a Ward victory. But man, he ate that shit for lunch.

    It would take one hell of a punch, or a shit ton of them, to put that guy away.
     

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