James Fields Charged with First Degree Murder

[Anung Un Rama]

I didn't think you were defending the guy, sorry if it came off that way.

But I don't think upgrading the charge to 1st degree changes anything. You still have the lesser included charges that the jury could find him on. So if they think he intended to kill someone and premeditated, 1st degree. If they think he intended to kill but did not plan beforehand, 2nd degree. If they think he had no intention to kill someone but acted recklessly (and flooring your car directly into a crowd certainly qualifies for that), then manslaughter.

And fear of being attacked won't cut it. The jury needs to find that a reasonable person would feel that they were in imminent (immediate) danger of being killed. It's not just this asshole swearing up and down that he felt that way. The standard put to a jury would be do you, as a reasonable person, feel that you were about to die in a situation like that? A few people swinging at a car that was clearly moving towards them first (remember, self defense is also void if he's found to be the aggressor) would not to me make me feel that I'm about to die right then and there. Also, the girl killed wasn't one of those people. Even if he could sway the jury on the above, I don't see how self-defense would apply to killing an innocent bystander.

The only defense would be 1) you have to convince them of no premeditation, and given that the prosecutor recently upgraded it, I'd imagine that they found past comments from this douche, on social media or otherwise, that he wanted to hurt someone; 2) then you'd have to convince the jury that you didn't intend to kill anyone, that this was some sort of panicked accident. That's going to be an uphill battle when maps clearly show that this guy went out of his way to arrive at that location with his car. The area was closed off, and he passed multiple police lines/partial barricades, and the crowd was clearly visible right in front of him. 3) Lastly, he's have to convince the jury that flooring his car directly into a mass of people wasn't somehow reckless, and that a few people hitting his car which he's safely inside would have prompted a similar reaction from an average person.

Now I don't see how a jury can buy all that. Although, juries have reached monumentally stupid decisions before.

My best guess, is that they found some posts on social media where this guy laid out his plans to hurt someone. So they upped it to 1st degree and will let the kid either plead down to 2nd degree, or roll the dice at trial.

Regardless, this kid isn't advantaged by the increased charge. If anything it's just one more thing (the premeditation) that his defense will have to argue against.

The video in question -unless it's a brand new one- shows people taking swings at his car when he's already past the last turning point and is halfway down the block and still driving at the crowd which is visible down the road from him.

Yeah, he goes even faster after that point, but he's already driving towards the crowd, so what exactly do you think it proves?

Like, is the hypothesis that he detoured around the highway and down a couple city blocks towards the crowd without malice before those meanies scared him into driving the last 100 feet, too?

Can they not charge him simultaneously with 1st and 2nd degree murder?

 

[VivaRevolution]

Can they not charge him simultaneously with 1st and 2nd degree murder?

My understanding on this, is that the jury can convict of lessor charges, but the reason the prosecutor really shouldn't do this, is because providing evidence and an argument for premeditated murder, makes it very difficult to convict for manslaughter. The prosecutors whole case is going to be based on premeditation. The jury will have a difficult time finding the evidence and argument for manslaughter, presented by the prosecutor.

 

[Darkballs]

Can they not charge him simultaneously with 1st and 2nd degree murder?

Yes. Or more particularly, they only charge him with 1st, which includes the lesser included charges of 2nd and manslaughter/reckless murder. Not sure if that counts as multiple charges though, strictly in a legal sense.

 

[nhbbear]

The video in question -unless it's a brand new one- shows people taking swings at his car when he's already past the last turning point and is halfway down the block and still driving at the crowd which is visible down the road from him.

Yeah, he goes even faster after that point, but he's already driving towards the crowd, so what exactly do you think it proves?

Like, is the hypothesis that he detoured around the highway and down a couple city blocks towards the crowd without malice before those meanies scared him into driving the last 100 feet, too?

I looked for the original video I watched, but was unsure if I watched it, or something different. It is also possible the video I watched was slowed down, making it seem like he was driving slow. It could be just the way I remember it as well. I thought there was a longer, closer video that clearly shows people hitting his vehicle. You still see them hitting his car, and I still think that the defense for this case is not all that difficult. It will depend on whose experts can show that he sped up with the intent to kill, or was fleeing from shit hitting his car and made a tragic error. The attack after the car hits the crowd is very aggressive, and could be used to strengthen his case that some people in the crowd meant him harm, both before and after.


Look, everyone wants to jump my shit over this like I am defending him. I am not! He drove many hours to stand with kkk assholes. This guy is a twat. But absent some smoking gun, ie “I am going to run someone over” and not some stupid “like” on a video with blm protesters getting hit for blocking roads, I think he will walk. And i don’t want to hope for his acquittal to save face, or say “see, I told you so,” but I have seen nothing to indicate that this was a planned event-that he drove all that way to run someone over, or waited until the protests were over, or even formulated his plan in the alley. I think he was a chickenshit that hit the gas when something hit his car. It is a natural reaction, that or slamming on the brakes

 

[nhbbear]

If you get the chance, please do. Because the video I've seen still show's his car creeping at about 10-20 mph towards the crowd before anyone reacts. And no one reacted in a way that led me to think "dear god, this kids about to die in that car!"

As I said to Quipling, I am not sure if I watched the video or not. What I remember was him creeping along and people hitting his car, but after watching a few videos, it is entirely possible it was a slowed down and zoomed in video that i watched.

With that said, I don’t think that changes much, if anything that I said, despite people wanting to burn me at the stake. Fuck this guy, and fuck anyone that takes umbrage with my opinion. I have no issue with disagreements or debate, but attacking me for a formulated opinion is wrong.

And for the record, I do not include you in the “burn bear” crowd. You made a point and layed it out. I respect that, even if I disagree. But again, i have been a cop for almost sixteen years, and i have seen a lot. I have been dead wrong about a few cases that I was involved in because juries can make crazy decisions. But based upon the law, based upon beyond a reasonable doubt, I think he skates on all murder charges. He may catch some minor “leaving the scene” or something to that affect, but even that seems reasonable because had he gotten out of the car, he would have been killed.

 

[Darkballs]

He may catch some minor “leaving the scene” or something to that affect, but even that seems reasonable because had he gotten out of the car, he would have been killed.

But that's the thing. He was in the car. How likely was he going to be killed, and killed immediately? He had a million other options besides flooring it into the crowd. I've had people hit my car before. Hell some shithead bum kicked it just last week for no reason I could ascertain. It would have been hard for me to claim my life was in immediate danger, even if he would have had a dozen buddies with him. They drag me out the car and start wailing, well that's another thing. But we can't have this low of a standard for lethal force.

Also, a key detail we keep leaving out: the person he killed was absolutely NOT one of the people trying to strike his car. In no jurisdiction can you kill a bystander in self-defense. You can only target the assailant. So the only way the people trying to strike his car comes into play is by claiming that because of their actions, his decision to floor it directly into a crowd in front of him was not reckless, but reasonable. I don't see how the hell anyone can buy that. Was there no other option for him to get away (assuming of course we believed him to be in mortal danger to begin with)? His only option was to drive as fast as possible into a mass of people? That cannot be considered reasonable.

That being said though, I agree with you. I worked as a prosecutor, and you never know what a retarded jury will conclude.

 

[Limbo Pete]

But that's the thing. He was in the car. How likely was he going to be killed, and killed immediately? He had a million other options besides flooring it into the crowd. I've had people hit my car before. Hell some shithead bum kicked it just last week for no reason I could ascertain. It would have been hard for me to claim my life was in immediate danger, even if he would have had a dozen buddies with him. They drag me out the car and start wailing, well that's another thing. But we can't have this low of a standard for lethal force.

Also, a key detail we keep leaving out: the person he killed was absolutely NOT one of the people trying to strike his car. In no jurisdiction can you kill a bystander in self-defense. You can only target the assailant. So the only way the people trying to strike his car comes into play is by claiming that because of their actions, his decision to floor it directly into a crowd in front of him was not reckless, but reasonable. I don't see how the hell anyone can buy that. Was there no other option for him to get away (assuming of course we believed him to be in mortal danger to begin with)? His only option was to drive as fast as possible into a mass of people? That cannot be considered reasonable.

That being said though, I agree with you. I worked as a prosecutor, and you never know what a retarded jury will conclude.

At the end of the day, juries can render guilty or innocent based on nothing whatsoever. It's their call straight up. I would imagine jury nullification won't be an issue here, but then again you never know.

 

[Islam Imamate]

Poor Kone. Won't somebody please think of the Kones.

Free @KONE

 

[LMP]

He will prolly get second degree murder. I'm not 100% sure there is enough to get first. Fuck that Guy though.

 

[nhbbear]

But that's the thing. He was in the car. How likely was he going to be killed, and killed immediately? He had a million other options besides flooring it into the crowd. I've had people hit my car before. Hell some shithead bum kicked it just last week for no reason I could ascertain. It would have been hard for me to claim my life was in immediate danger, even if he would have had a dozen buddies with him. They drag me out the car and start wailing, well that's another thing. But we can't have this low of a standard for lethal force.

Also, a key detail we keep leaving out: the person he killed was absolutely NOT one of the people trying to strike his car. In no jurisdiction can you kill a bystander in self-defense. You can only target the assailant. So the only way the people trying to strike his car comes into play is by claiming that because of their actions, his decision to floor it directly into a crowd in front of him was not reckless, but reasonable. I don't see how the hell anyone can buy that. Was there no other option for him to get away (assuming of course we believed him to be in mortal danger to begin with)? His only option was to drive as fast as possible into a mass of people? That cannot be considered reasonable.

That being said though, I agree with you. I worked as a prosecutor, and you never know what a retarded jury will conclude.

Well, when the bum kicked your car, was it after a riot in which people were seriously maimed? That would change that.

Was he in immediate harm? Maybe, maybe not, but he does not have to wait to see how vicious the attack on him will be. And his victim not being one of the assailants will garner sympathy, but he did not target her, more mean to cause her harm. He was scared after being attacked. They could have been fine with an involuntary manslaughter charge, but they aimed too high.

Either way, this will be an interesting case to see tried, if they don’t teach a deal before then-say invol manslaughter with six months served and five years probation. I am also interested in seeing how the verdict will affect people. If/when he walks, will there be riots? People blocking the roads? I think so. Unfortunately, this case also is one that you either side with racist kkk fucks on one side(even if he may be innocent of murder) and everyone else on the other side. I certainly don’t want to be on the side of the kkk, but imo, Justice would both be served and not served either way. Either the jury caves and finds him guilty of a crime that he did not mean to commit, or he is found innocent because of lack of reasonable doubt, and everyone is angry and sad, but justice is still upheld. I would rather see him hang himself in jail than either outcome. I want him to be guilty, but damn’t, I believe him to be innocent of what he is charged with.

 

[FinalFight]

The racist just wanted to get home to his family. A cop understands how the racist felt being put in such a position.

He had no choice but to run Heather Hayer over. It was a life or death situation And sadly running her over was unavoidable.

#hedidntdonothing

 

[HockeyBjj]

This is going to suck so much when the prosecutors over charged and jury has no option but to find him not guilty

The evil white nazi’s are everywhere and supported will be mainstream media news for weeks and weeks and racial tensions will just get worse when they’re finally simmering down some from where they were last summer

 

[Bloody Pulp]

He’ll be acquitted.

 

[Deleted member 491001]

@Giblert 's "just asking questions" post with car A and car B is especially godawful because the dents and damage, right down to the decapitated passenger mirror, are exactly the same. As if it would be even a little bit possible to replicate extremely specific vehicle damage, much less that there would be motive to even try that in this instance. It's definitely getting a dumbest post of the year nomination unless Gibby can somehow explain himself...

I don't know much about what other people have concluded regarding possible slight differences in the appearance of damage to the car that day but I know what I can see.

If you don't see any differences, or don't want to even look because you don't like people who claim to see differences, that's absolutely fine by me. Was just throwing in my 2 cents.