I've been using Kettlebell For Grapplers program for 6 weeks, my review

[ArtOfGrappling]

So, as the title says, I've been using Matt D'Aquino of Beyond Grappling's Kettlebells For Grapplers program for 6 weeks and I've posted my thoughts on the program on my website

http://artofgrappling.com/2015/04/26/review-of-beyond-grapplings-kettlebells-for-grapplers/

I thought I would post this here rather than in the gear and equipment review section because I also want to raise money for the Canadian or American (your choice) Olympic judo team.

For each purchase of Kettlebells for Grapplers off of ArtOfGrappling.com (using the link on the website) I will donate $20 to the Canadian or Olympic judo team (your choice as to which one)!

Let's see who can raise more money!!

A short excerpt below:

I was a complete noob and I have never done any kettlebell work before. Ever. I’ve seen some people swinging them around and, to be honest, I thought they looked quite stupid. I’m not sure if I’ve ever been so wrong. In fact I compare starting kettlebells to something along the lines of starting bjj and judo

“Why the hell didn’t I start this sooner?!”

I’ve been doing bjj and judo for about 8 years and after 6 weeks of kettlebells I’ve noticed my muscle endurance for long bouts of grappling has increased quite a bit. This is even considering the fact that my grappling was down to 2 a week recently (from 5), which would usually mean I would be gassing after the second hard standup grappling round. My forearms and hands do not give out as quickly and overall I feel looser and therefore better able to explode.

I would also say that kettlebells are not as good as powerlifting in terms of developing maximum strength BUT are great for developing the sprint-stop-sprint-and-explode type of muscle endurance needed for grappling competitions.

 

[TheFakeMacoy]

If we purchase it, how do we let you know which team to donate the money to? Should we just shoot you an e-mail?

 

[Blacklabel]

Just get a barbell and a bench and do
Front Squat
bench press
deadlift
bent over rows
Over head press

and you'll be a billion times better off

 

[jack36767]

Just get a barbell and a bench and do
Front Squat
bench press
deadlift
bent over rows
Over head press

and you'll be a billion times better off

Never forget pull-ups and/or rope climbs :icon_chee, grip and back in a "functional" way that won't get you hurt doing them unless form is off lol

 

[Judo Thai Boxer]

Maybe Matt's stuff is great like his videos are but this is just a sales pitch, not a review.

 

[ArtOfGrappling]

Just get a barbell and a bench and do
Front Squat
bench press
deadlift
bent over rows
Over head press

and you'll be a billion times better off

I started powerlifting to supplement my grappling about 4 years ago (I still suck at it) but I made leaps and bounds in judo after doing so. I was a scrawn with an office slouch before that.

I also do mention in the review that the kettlebells are no replacement for what you mentioned above, but a nice supplement.

My gas tank has always been shitty (and possibly even shittier from training 1RMs with long breaks between each set) so when peaking for comps, we always taper in HIIT stuff, and this was a form of HIIT that is probably more specific than a lot of other types of HIIT...asides from timed uchikomi, or specific types of randori... but you don't always have a partner, and sometimes you have a spare 30 mins which isn't enough time to drive to the gym etc.

And speaking of working out at home, I've been close to buying a squat rack and barbell set for my basement a few times but didn't want to drop a ton of money and take up all that space. Kettlebells were something I'd never tried and it was WAY better than I thought they would be, they take up no room, I can do them quick. And I just need to make sure to schedule in the barbells at the gym once or twice a week.

Maybe Matt's stuff is great like his videos are but this is just a sales pitch, not a review.

I proofread this article through about 5 or 6 times, and I did get an advertise-y vibe from it myself. I just really don't know any other way to write it though (the rest of the writing on the site is just as shitty lol), so that's where I had the option to either go zero commission or use the money for something worthwhile.

This last weekend I was at the PanAmerican Judo Championships. Seeing and meeting some of my favourite judo stars like Antoine Valois-Fortier, Travis Stevens, and Kayla Harrison was an eye opener and really inspiring.

These guys put everything on the line, and you could see it from the emotions off the mat after they stepped off. A lot of the time they are paying for their travel and training themselves (maybe more so the US athletes than Canada?) so I figured, if anyone does use the link, give the money to these guys to keep doing amazing judo.

If we purchase it, how do we let you know which team to donate the money to? Should we just shoot you an e-mail?

If you do end up purchasing it off of ArtOfGrappling.com, the easiest would be to follow up by sending a message through the website following the "Contact Us" link.

I should have been more clear on that, thanks!

 

[Uchi Mata]

Just get a barbell and a bench and do
Front Squat
bench press
deadlift
bent over rows
Over head press

and you'll be a billion times better off

I did that for a long time, running first Starting Strength and eventually 5/3/1 to get the volume down (lifting was interfering with BJJ). I recently sold all my powerlifting stuff and have switched over to kettlebells completely. My personal experience has been very positive, I have essentially no joint pain and I have not noticed any decreases in strength. On the contrary, my shoulders and upper back feel stronger than they ever have (I mostly stick to heavy swings, clean and press, and snatches with some TGUs). Powerlifting is great for adding raw strength and muscle mass, but for power endurance with minimal gain in mass (useful in a weight class sport) kettlebells have worked a lot better for me. And frankly, I think power endurance is a lot more valuable for combat sports than raw power. I've beaten a ton of guys who could easily outlift me because they couldn't maintain power output for a full match. If I had to choose between a 500/400/300 deadlift/squat/bench and being able to 'tame the beast' (look it up), I'd take the latter in a heartbeat as a competitive grappler.

 

[anaconda]

I did that for a long time, running first Starting Strength and eventually 5/3/1 to get the volume down (lifting was interfering with BJJ). I recently sold all my powerlifting stuff and have switched over to kettlebells completely. My personal experience has been very positive, I have essentially no joint pain and I have not noticed any decreases in strength. On the contrary, my shoulders and upper back feel stronger than they ever have (I mostly stick to heavy swings, clean and press, and snatches with some TGUs). Powerlifting is great for adding raw strength and muscle mass, but for power endurance with minimal gain in mass (useful in a weight class sport) kettlebells have worked a lot better for me. And frankly, I think power endurance is a lot more valuable for combat sports than raw power. I've beaten a ton of guys who could easily outlift me because they couldn't maintain power output for a full match. If I had to choose between a 500/400/300 deadlift/squat/bench and being able to 'tame the beast' (look it up), I'd take the latter in a heartbeat as a competitive grappler.

That's very interesting, and I appreciate your insight.

However, I think your opinion may also be colored by the fact that you did have a strong powerlifting base before moving to kettlebells. Basically, you already made the CNS adaptations and developed your base of strength.

In fact, what you did is probably what would be best for most people. Get your base strength up by doing SS and then a follow up program, to get to intermediate strength levels. Then switch to more grappling oriented stuff to maintain strength and enhance endurance and flexibility.

I dunno - just my thoughts. Do you think if you never did powerlifting, and just went straight to kb you would still feel the same way?

 

[jack36767]

That's very interesting, and I appreciate your insight.

However, I think your opinion may also be colored by the fact that you did have a strong powerlifting base before moving to kettlebells. Basically, you already made the CNS adaptations and developed your base of strength.

In fact, what you did is probably what would be best for most people. Get your base strength up by doing SS and then a follow up program, to get to intermediate strength levels. Then switch to more grappling oriented stuff to maintain strength and enhance endurance and flexibility.

I dunno - just my thoughts. Do you think if you never did powerlifting, and just went straight to kb you would still feel the same way?

I personally think so. I have done a lot of different types of training. IMO Kettlebells are the best for grappling because they are the safest way to train "power endurance" or "conditioned strength". sustained power and ability to change speeds repeatedly is essential and Kettlebells are the only "conditioning" and "odd object" training tool that train both low gear strength and conditioning without the likelyhood of damaging your body too much

 

[dmwalking]

I've beaten a ton of guys who could easily outlift me because they couldn't maintain power output for a full match.

This is a very good point.

 

[Uchi Mata]

That's very interesting, and I appreciate your insight.

However, I think your opinion may also be colored by the fact that you did have a strong powerlifting base before moving to kettlebells. Basically, you already made the CNS adaptations and developed your base of strength.

In fact, what you did is probably what would be best for most people. Get your base strength up by doing SS and then a follow up program, to get to intermediate strength levels. Then switch to more grappling oriented stuff to maintain strength and enhance endurance and flexibility.

I dunno - just my thoughts. Do you think if you never did powerlifting, and just went straight to kb you would still feel the same way?

I don't know. My powerlifting experience is really colored by frequent injuries (not usually lifting related) that forced me to take breaks, so I never got super strong. Maybe if I'd been able to lift consistently for years I'd place more value on it.

In general though I think you may have a point, powerlifting is great for establishing a base of strength but the benefit of higher maximal strength tapers quickly relative to power endurance for grappling. Now clearly a stronger man can lift a lighter weight more easily and frequently than a weaker man, but that strength usually comes with mass increases that somewhat hamper the utility of the strength.

Let's take the case of lifting a person of your size for a throw. If you weigh 180 and can squat 180 15 times, and you lift your way to being able to squat 180 30 times but now you weigh 220, the utility of that additional strength is minimal since now your sport requires you to squat 220 as many times as possible because now you're picking up dudes your own (larger) size. I feel like kettlebells give you the best ratio of power to endurance you're likely to find, plus I've found they help my joints and general recovery whereas powerlifting was always a huge energy sap.

 

[Uchi Mata]

I personally think so. I have done a lot of different types of training. IMO Kettlebells are the best for grappling because they are the safest way to train "power endurance" or "conditioned strength". sustained power and ability to change speeds repeatedly is essential and Kettlebells are the only "conditioning" and "odd object" training tool that train both low gear strength and conditioning without the likelyhood of damaging your body too much

Kettlebells are interesting too because of the constant weight thing. Because you often use the same weights for things like presses that you'd use for swings, you end up emphasizing endurance for certain muscles groups and strength for others. Which I like, because it helps you patch up strength holes in smaller muscles groups and endurance holes in large ones. Plus it's all standing (or getting up), no isolation movements, which I think is really the way to go for grappling.

 

[JustTheTip]

Curious, have any of you tried that Keith Weber Kettlebell Cardio Workout(s)? If so, what were your thoughts in comparison with other workouts?

 

[anaconda]

I don't know. My powerlifting experience is really colored by frequent injuries (not usually lifting related) that forced me to take breaks, so I never got super strong. Maybe if I'd been able to lift consistently for years I'd place more value on it.

In general though I think you may have a point, powerlifting is great for establishing a base of strength but the benefit of higher maximal strength tapers quickly relative to power endurance for grappling. Now clearly a stronger man can lift a lighter weight more easily and frequently than a weaker man, but that strength usually comes with mass increases that somewhat hamper the utility of the strength.

Let's take the case of lifting a person of your size for a throw. If you weigh 180 and can squat 180 15 times, and you lift your way to being able to squat 180 30 times but now you weigh 220, the utility of that additional strength is minimal since now your sport requires you to squat 220 as many times as possible because now you're picking up dudes your own (larger) size. I feel like kettlebells give you the best ratio of power to endurance you're likely to find, plus I've found they help my joints and general recovery whereas powerlifting was always a huge energy sap.

I do see your point, and I honestly am not sure. I've believed for so long that a basic strength routine is essential just to unlock the CNS potential before getting into any other routine, that I need to think about it more before changing my opinion.

A 180 lb guy could do SS and only put on a few lbs, but develop a great deal of basic strength. If you can only squat 100 lbs and by the end you can squat 225, which is not unreasonable at all, I'd say that is a huge boon. If you then transition to kettlebells and other types of workouts I would guess you'd be better off than starting with kettlebells but I honestly don't know.

I do need to buy a couple of kettlebells though and start doing something to get back into the groove bc I've lost a lot of time to injuries. Maybe it'll be better for me than barbell training.

 

[Uchi Mata]

I do see your point, and I honestly am not sure. I've believed for so long that a basic strength routine is essential just to unlock the CNS potential before getting into any other routine, that I need to think about it more before changing my opinion.

A 180 lb guy could do SS and only put on a few lbs, but develop a great deal of basic strength. If you can only squat 100 lbs and by the end you can squat 225, which is not unreasonable at all, I'd say that is a huge boon. If you then transition to kettlebells and other types of workouts I would guess you'd be better off than starting with kettlebells but I honestly don't know.

I do need to buy a couple of kettlebells though and start doing something to get back into the groove bc I've lost a lot of time to injuries. Maybe it'll be better for me than barbell training.

I will say that I was able to up kettlebell size in swings and clean really quickly, but TGUs have taken a long time because they're so technique dependent (as have snatches). I don't know your strength level, but I really needed a 16kg and 24kg bell to start and now I'm probably going to go get a 32kg, maybe a 28kg as well for exercises I'm in between on like presses. I'd also recommend taking at least one class to learn swing and TGU form, KB guys talk a lot about practicing the motions but I think if you've lifted and are fairly athletic that it's pretty easy to get them down.

 

[ArtOfGrappling]

Curious, have any of you tried that Keith Weber Kettlebell Cardio Workout(s)? If so, what were your thoughts in comparison with other workouts?

I bought Keith Weber's Extreme Kettlebell Cardio Workout DVD to use as a baseline comparison to Matt's.

The DVD was good, but he literally just slams right into a continuous kettlebell workout that is broken into several different sections. There's no warmup, he doesn't teach the techniques, and it doesn't have any other writing with it (just the front and back covers).

It's an excellent DVD for those who already know how to do the techniques, or have a lot of time to research them online.

The advantage I found with Matt's was that it walked you through the whole process from picking a proper weighted kettlebell, to warming up, to learning how to handle it and then progressing thru more difficult movements (which are taught to you in a lesson).

 

[peregrine]

If anyone has a question on the program I have it.
Nothing revolutionary to me. But as that saying goes, simple doesn't always mean easy.

I also have ScottIaRdellas double kettlebell Shock&Awe Protocol. I did a few cycles of this. I liked it, but I think it's a peaking program imo vs a base building.

 

[peregrine]

Imo kb in general are conditioning tools, you get strong using the barbell on a progressive program. Kb will make you stronger, but near as much maximal strength. If power output over time is your goal, I could see the argument for kb, though I prefer bb and think of kb as finishers or metcon.

 

[TenderLoving]

I did that for a long time, running first Starting Strength and eventually 5/3/1 to get the volume down (lifting was interfering with BJJ). I recently sold all my powerlifting stuff and have switched over to kettlebells completely. My personal experience has been very positive, I have essentially no joint pain and I have not noticed any decreases in strength. On the contrary, my shoulders and upper back feel stronger than they ever have (I mostly stick to heavy swings, clean and press, and snatches with some TGUs). Powerlifting is great for adding raw strength and muscle mass, but for power endurance with minimal gain in mass (useful in a weight class sport) kettlebells have worked a lot better for me. And frankly, I think power endurance is a lot more valuable for combat sports than raw power. I've beaten a ton of guys who could easily outlift me because they couldn't maintain power output for a full match. If I had to choose between a 500/400/300 deadlift/squat/bench and being able to 'tame the beast' (look it up), I'd take the latter in a heartbeat as a competitive grappler.

Uchi, Urban dictionary says tame the beast is to have a wank. Are you saying grip strength is more important than overall power?

 

[Kbits]

I've tried to like kettlebells but I find they cause too much DOMS, perhaps from the nature of their common protocols (high repetition, full eccentric motion). The claims of strength-endurance are interesting but if we're going to argue for specificity, let's argue for randori.

I like the convenience factor - and they can be a hell of a workout - but am waiting to hear how this program is any different than typical routines?