It's simple, take a polygraph Mr. Jones

I understand the google searches you are quoting, and that the system is not 100%.... making it unscientific. The US gov spends 100s of millions of dollars a year to subject people to polygraphs. Take a couple, know some polygraphers and get back to me.
These are not google searches I'm quoting. I actually work in a scientific occupation and have more than a basic understanding of whether something can be scientifically validated or not.
The truth is that the polygraph has not been demonstrated to be able to determine whether someone is telling the truth or lying under controlled conditions in a scientifically controlled double blind study subject to peer review.
Under the best case scenario, the polygraph works about as well as random chance.

The people "running" polygraph tests can hardly be described as highly trained operators. The "basic" course is a 12 week training program followed by a 3 week " advanced course and certification process". Professions that have longer training requirements than polygraph examiners include: barbers, appliance repair, automotive mechanics, HVAC, the list goes on and on. The point is, is that training doesn't matter all that much if the underlying premises of the polygraph are flawed.
There is a voluminous amount of data, studies, and information available to anyone wishing to research it. The bottom line with any device that makes claims that it can perform a function is to be able to demonstrate that it works under controlled scientific conditions. Polygraphs have not been able to demonstrate their effectiveness under these conditions. If they were to be able to do so, the scientific community would embrace them. Instead we have polygraph manufacturers, polygraph training and certification schools and law enforcement personnel trained to use the technology by the people who have a financial interest in it's "success" who embrace the technology.
In closing whether I take a polygraph test or not doesn't prove anything. Whether I get to know the " examiners" or as you call them "polygraphers" doesn't matter either, hell I could become one in 15 weeks. That's not how things are proven in this world. They are proven via the scientific method. If it works, then the device should be able to demonstrate it's effectiveness in a controlled scientific setting. It should be able to demonstrate repeatable results. It doesn't and it can't. It's that simple.
 
Please provide a citation for your claim that the US government spends hundreds of millions of dollars to subject people to polygraph tests.

Complete nonsense.


A career polygrapher makes $100K+ a year. There are a lot at every agency. Probably at least 20 per agency plus DOD military, and that a low estimate. Add in benefits, its a $250K year plus package + reitrement benefits until an average life span of 70 years. For every polygrapher there are several that are retired receiving lifetime benefits. There are 17 intel agencies alone that require it not to mention Customs, FBI, ATF, Dept of State.....the list goes on and on and on.


Now the people getting polygraphed have to have flights paid for them to arrive, hotel rooms, per diem, rental cars, salary, etc. Polygraphers fly worldwide to issue polygraphs to every Embassy on earth. Many people take a polygraph 2x in order to pass due to inconsistent results, or are replaced by the next candidate, costing more.

Here is an example of Customs wasting $5mill asking people about things they admitted to.

http://www.businessinsider.com/cust...ns-lie-detector-tests-immigration-news-2017-8
 
These are not google searches I'm quoting. I actually work in a scientific occupation and have more than a basic understanding of whether something can be scientifically validated or not.
The truth is that the polygraph has not been demonstrated to be able to determine whether someone is telling the truth or lying under controlled conditions in a scientifically controlled double blind study subject to peer review.
Under the best case scenario, the polygraph works about as well as random chance.

The people "running" polygraph tests can hardly be described as highly trained operators. The "basic" course is a 12 week training program followed by a 3 week " advanced course and certification process". Professions that have longer training requirements than polygraph examiners include: barbers, appliance repair, automotive mechanics, HVAC, the list goes on and on. The point is, is that training doesn't matter all that much if the underlying premises of the polygraph are flawed.
There is a voluminous amount of data, studies, and information available to anyone wishing to research it. The bottom line with any device that makes claims that it can perform a function is to be able to demonstrate that it works under controlled scientific conditions. Polygraphs have not been able to demonstrate their effectiveness under these conditions. If they were to be able to do so, the scientific community would embrace them. Instead we have polygraph manufacturers, polygraph training and certification schools and law enforcement personnel trained to use the technology by the people who have a financial interest in it's "success" who embrace the technology.
In closing whether I take a polygraph test or not doesn't prove anything. Whether I get to know the " examiners" or as you call them "polygraphers" doesn't matter either, hell I could become one in 15 weeks. That's not how things are proven in this world. They are proven via the scientific method. If it works, then the device should be able to demonstrate it's effectiveness in a controlled scientific setting. It should be able to demonstrate repeatable results. It doesn't and it can't. It's that simple.
Copy and paste this to your congressman. Im sure all gov agencies will stop wasting their time right away.
 
For those of you who may not read through the studies here are some excerpts from the conclusion of the National Academy of Sciences report entitled:
The Polygraph and Lie Detection (2003)
Board on Behavioral, Cognitive, and Sensory Sciences and Education (BCSSE)
Committee on National Statistics (CNSTAT)

8
Conclusions and Recommendations

We have reviewed the scientific evidence on the polygraph with the goal of assessing its validity for security uses, especially those involving the screening of substantial numbers of government employees. Overall, the evidence is scanty and scientifically weak. Our conclusions are necessarily based on the far from satisfactory body of evidence on polygraph accuracy, as well as basic knowledge about the physiological responses the polygraph measures. We separately present our conclusions about scientific knowledge on the validity of polygraph and other techniques of detecting deception, about policy for employee security screening in the context of the U.S. Department of Energy (DOE) laboratories, and about the future of detection and deterrence of deception, including a recommendation for research.

SCIENTIFIC KNOWLEDGE

Basic Science

Polygraph Accuracy Almost a century of research in scientific psychology and physiology provides little basis for the expectation that a polygraph test could have extremely high accuracy. The physiological responses measured by the polygraph are not uniquely related to deception. That is, the responses measured by the polygraph do not all reflect a single underlying process: a variety of psychological and physiological processes, including some that can be consciously controlled, can affect polygraph measures and test results. Moreover, most polygraph testing procedures allow for uncontrolled variation in test administration (e.g., creation of the emotional climate, selecting questions) that can be expected to result in variations in accuracy and that limit the level of accuracy that can be consistently achieved.

Theoretical Basis The theoretical rationale for the polygraph is quite weak, especially in terms of differential fear, arousal, or other emotional states that are triggered in response to relevant or comparison questions. We have not found any serious effort at construct validation of polygraph testing.

Research Progress Research on the polygraph has not progressed over time in the manner of a typical scientific field. It has not accumulated knowledge or strengthened its scientific underpinnings in any significant manner. Polygraph research has proceeded in relative isolation from related fields of basic science and has benefited little from conceptual, theoretical, and technological advances in those fields that are relevant to the psychophysiological detection of deception.

Future Potential The inherent ambiguity of the physiological measures used in the polygraph suggest that further investments in improving polygraph technique and interpretation will bring only modest improvements in accuracy.

These are the people who created this report:
Appendix L
Biographical Sketches of Committee Members and Staff

STEPHEN E. FIENBERG (chair) is Maurice Falk university professor of statistics and social science, in the Department of Statistics and the Center for Automated Learning and Discovery at Carnegie Mellon University. He is a member of the National Academy of Sciences and currently serves on the advisory committee of the National Research Council’s Division of Behavioral and Social Sciences and Education. He is a past chair of the Committee on National Statistics and has served on several of its panels. He has published extensively on statistical methods for the analysis of categorical data and methods for disclosure limitation. His research interests include the use of statistics in public policy and the law, surveys and experiments, and the role of statistical methods in censustaking.

JAMES J. BLASCOVICH is professor and chair of psychology and codirector of the Research Center for Virtual Environments and Behavior at the University of California, Santa Barbara. He is president-elect of the Society for Personality and Social Psychology (Division 8 of the American Psychological Association). His research interests include the psychophysiology and social psychophysiology of motivation and emotion, stigma and prejudice, and social influence processes in immersive virtual environments.

* JOHN T. CACIOPPO is the Tiffany and Margaret Blake distinguished service professor at the University of Chicago. He has pioneered the field of social neuroscience and cofounded the Institute for Mind and Biology to support multilevel integrative analyses of social behavior. His current research focuses on the mechanisms underlying affect and emotion and the cognitive and neural substrates of racial prejudice.

RICHARD J. DAVIDSON is the William James and Vilas Research professor of psychology and psychiatry at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, where he directs the W.M. Keck Laboratory for Functional Brain Imaging and Behavior. His research is focused on the neural substrates of emotion and disorders of emotion, and he is an expert on the use of psychophysiological and brain imaging measures to study emotion.

PAUL EKMAN is professor of psychology at the University of California, San Francisco. His areas of expertise are deception and demeanor and emotional expression. He is the author or editor of 13 books and has been the recipient of a Senior Scientist Award (Career Award) from the National Institute for Mental Health. He received the American Psychological Association’s highest award for basic research, the Distinguished Scientific Contribution Award, a Doctor of Humane Letters from the University of Chicago, and was named William James Fellow by the American Psychological Society.

DAVID L. FAIGMAN is a professor of law at the University of California, Hastings College of the Law. He received both his M.A. (psychology) and J.D. degrees from the University of Virginia. He writes extensively on the law’s use of science and constitutional law. His books include Legal Alchemy: The Use and Misuse of Science in the Law, and he is a coauthor of the four-volume treatise, Modern Scientific Evidence: The Law and Science of Expert Testimony. The treatise has been cited widely by courts, including several times by the U.S. Supreme Court. He lectures regularly to state and federal judges on issues concerning science and the law.

PATRICIA L. GRAMBSCH is associate professor of biostatistics in the School of Public Health, University of Minnesota. Her research expertise includes stochastic processes and mathematical modeling, with emphasis on time-to-event data. Her clinical collaborations involve clinical trials for chronic disease treatments and preventions. She is a fellow of the American Statistical Association.

PETER B. IMREY is a staff member of the Department of Biostatistics and Epidemiology, Cleveland Clinic Foundation, having previously been a professor in the Departments of Statistics and Medical Information Sciences, University of Illinois at Urbana-Champaign. His research includes statistical methods for categorical data analysis and epidemiologic studies, and he is active in extensive collaboration in design and analysis of biomedical and public health investigations. He is chair of the Statistics Section, American Public Health Association (APHA). He has previously served on the governing councils of APHA and the International Biometric Society and chaired the American Statistical Association’s Biometrics Section and Section on Teaching Statistics in the Health Sciences.

EMMETT B. KEELER is a senior mathematician at RAND in Santa Monica, California. He teaches policy analysis methods as a professor in the RAND Graduate School and an adjunct professor in the Public Health School, University of California, Los Angeles. His research has dealt with the theoretical and empirical effects of financing arrangements on health care utilization, quality, and outcomes. His current research deals with evaluating attempts to improve the quality of care and developing a business case for providing higher quality care.

KATHRYN B. LASKEY is an associate professor of systems engineering at George Mason University. She was previously a principal scientist at Decision Science Consortium, Inc. Her primary research interest is the study of decision, theoretically based knowledge representation, and inference strategies for automated reasoning under uncertainty. She has worked on methods for knowledge-based construction of problem-specific Bayesian belief networks, specifying Bayesian belief networks from a combination of expert knowledge and observations, and for recognizing when a system’s current problem model is inadequate. She has worked with domain experts to develop Bayesian belief network models for a variety of decision and inference support problem areas. She received a joint Ph.D. in statistics and public affairs from Carnegie Mellon University, an M.S. in mathematics from the University of Michigan, and a B.S. in mathematics from the University of Pittsburgh.

SUSAN R. McCUTCHEN has been on staff at The National Academies for over 20 years and worked in several Academy divisions and with many different boards, committees, and panels in those units. The studies in which she has participated have covered a broad range of subjects, including international affairs, technology transfer, aeronautics, natural disasters, education, needle exchange, and human factors. She has assisted in the production of a large number of Academy publications. A French major, with minors in English, Italian, and Spanish, her B.A. degree is from Ohio’s Miami University, and her M.A. degree from Kent State University.

KEVIN R. MURPHY is a professor of psychology at Pennsylvania State University. His research areas include performance evaluation, psychological measurement, research methods, and honesty in the workplace. He serves as editor of the Journal of Applied Psychology, and he has consulted extensively with the Armed Forces and with private industry on the design and evaluation of personnel selection and appraisal systems.

MARCUS E. RAICHLE is professor and codirector of the Division of Radiological Sciences, Mallinckrodt Institute of Radiology, Washington University School of Medicine, St. Louis. He is a member of the National Academy of Sciences, the Institute of Medicine, and the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, and a fellow of the American Association for the Advancement of Science. Focusing on research on the functioning of the human brain, his work has been widely published in leading scientific journals. Dr. Raichle is also a member of the Society for Neuroscience, the American Neurological Association, the American Academy of Neurology, and the International Society on Cerebral Blood Flow and Metabolism.

RICHARD M. SHIFFRIN is Luther Dana Waterman research professor, distinguished professor, and director of the Cognitive Science Program, Indiana University. A recent winner of the Rumelhart Prize and member of the National Academy of Sciences (in which capacity he has been involved in many NRC and NAS activities), he constructs and tests models of cognition, especially memory, perception, attention, and decision making. Much of his research involves the extraction of signal from noise, in both perception and memory.

ALEKSANDRA SLAVKOVIC (consultant) is a Ph.D. student in the Department of Statistics at Carnegie Mellon University. She holds a B.A. (honors) in psychology from Duquesne University and an M.S. in human-computer interaction from the School of Computer Science, Carnegie Mellon University. Past and current research interests include usability evaluation methods, human performance in virtual environments, statistical data mining, and statistical approaches to confidentiality and data disclosure.

PAUL C. STERN (study director) also serves as study director of the Committee on the Human Dimensions of Global Change. His research interests include the determinants of environmentally significant behavior, particularly at the individual level, and participatory processes for informing environmental decision making. His recent books include Environmental Problems and Human Behavior, 2nd ed. (with G.T. Gardner, Pearson, 2002), Evaluating Social Science Research, 2nd ed. (with L. Kalof, Oxford University Press, 1996); Understanding Risk: Informing Decisions in a Democratic Society (edited with H.V. Fineberg, National Academy Press, 1996), International Conflict Resolution after the Cold War (edited with D. Druckman, National Academy Press, 2000), and The Drama of the Commons (edited with E. Ostrom, T. Dietz, N. Dolsak, S. Stonich, and E.U. Weber, National Academy Press, 2002). He received his B.A. degree from Amherst College and his M.A. and Ph.D. degrees from Clark University.

JOHN A. SWETS is chief scientist emeritus at BBN Technologies in Cambridge, Massachusetts, lecturer on health care policy at Harvard Medical School, and senior research associate at the Brigham and Women’s Hospital in Boston. He is a member of the National Academy of Sciences (immediate past chair of the psychology section) and of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences. He was a member and chair of the Commission of Behavioral and Social Sciences and Education of the NRC, and he is now a member of the NRC’s Board on Behavioral, Cognitive, and Sensory Sciences. Other NRC activities include chairs of committees to design an international fire-alarm signal and to evaluate techniques for the enhancement of human performance, and recently served on two committees of the Institute of Medicine. His research emphasis has been on the development of signal detection theory for sensory and cognitive functions and on the theory’s application to the diagnostic process in several practical fields.
 
Screw the whole thing, fold up the UFC and start Pride FC up in Japan. It's a win win for everyone.
 
Whoever it is that does the next Jon Jones interview needs to ask Jon if he would be willing to take a polygraph. I would love to see the look on his face when asked that question

Why? He's already failed a chemical test more than once. And sociopaths can easily beat a polygraph.
 
Copy and paste this to your congressman. Im sure all gov agencies will stop wasting their time right away.
I'm not trying to "win" or fight with you, but just educate. Millions of people believe in psychics, numerology, astrology, tarot cards etc. and probably spend even more money on these pursuits than is spent on polygraphs. According to your logic, this would give them some credibility. The US Government has wasted countless billions of dollars on extremely dubious things over the years so just because they waste money on polygraphs is not a good indication of their validity. I explained why they are used by investigators and it's because people believe it works and will often confess when the "examiner" tells them that their answers indicate "deception". Can you cite a single scientific authority that has performed a controlled study on polygraphs that demonstrate they are effective ? If you can't provide evidence then your assertions that they work because law enforcement use them would be all you have. Is that all you have ?
 
I have an idea:

They should tie JJ up and inject truth serum and waterboard him until he admits the truth.

amidoingitrite?
 
I'm not trying to "win" or fight with you, but just educate. Millions of people believe in psychics, numerology, astrology, tarot cards etc. and probably spend even more money on these pursuits than is spent on polygraphs. According to your logic, this would give them some credibility. The US Government has wasted countless billions of dollars on extremely dubious things over the years so just because they waste money on polygraphs is not a good indication of their validity. I explained why they are used by investigators and it's because people believe it works and will often confess when the "examiner" tells them that their answers indicate "deception". Can you cite a single scientific authority that has performed a controlled study on polygraphs that demonstrate they are effective ? If you can't provide evidence then your assertions that they work because law enforcement use them would be all you have. Is that all you have ?
Comparing a polygraph to numerology is a bit much. Compare it to a tracking dog, its really only as good as its handler. I never said its "scientific" and u stated well what it measures, its a tool used to be a piece of a puzzle to lead investigations.
 
It doesn't matter he has sociopathic tendencies. He will never admit that he did it. He may have created something in his mind where he really believes he didnt.
 
As others stated, its not reliable.

Also this isn't the first time he's fucked up.

Its like the 5th.

Hey guys, I think Jones is actually a cheating PED using, cocaine sniffing douchebag.

He's a criminal. Time to accept it.

But he was JUST TURNING HIS LIFE AROUND!
 
Comparing a polygraph to numerology is a bit much. Compare it to a tracking dog, its really only as good as its handler. I never said its "scientific" and u stated well what it measures, its a tool used to be a piece of a puzzle to lead investigations.

Actually I don't think comparing it to numerology is a bit much. They both have zero scientific credibility. I also would disagree with comparing it to a tracking dog as a dog can actually demonstrate that it can in fact track something.
When you state that polygraphs are like a tracking dog and only as good as it's handler, I believe that you sincerely believe this, and have perhaps been trained to view the polygraph in this way. I'm not personally attacking you, but rather the technology. The polygraph has undergone extensive scientific testing and research. All of which has indicated that they are ineffective in determining whether the person being tested is being truthful or lying. The same holds true for the claim that it can indicate whether someone is being deceitful. It does not measure deceit. The physiological responses by persons attempting to be deceitful are not common nor are they measurable, at least not by a polygraph. How a polygraph does "work" is as a tool for a skillful interrogator. It also matters how much the subject of the test believes that the polygraph is a valid instrument of lie detection to the extent that a skillful interrogator may be able to extract a confession while employing a polygraph as one tool out of a variety of interrogation techniques. In other words a skillful interrogator can deceive the subject into believing his magic machine can tell he's lying and sometimes extract more information or perhaps a confession but that is the human doing it, not the polygraph.
In any case, I didn't mean to fight with you and I hope there are no hard feelings. Science is a subject close to my heart and this subject is one that is so misunderstood by the majority of people that I do try to take opportunities to discuss it and hopefully educate some people if they are interested in learning when the opportunity presents itself. I never thought that it would be on Sherdog LOL !
 
Polygraphs are not always accurate and many factors can affected by multiple factors that aren't based on whether the person is lying or not. Whats more accurate than a polygraph is a drug test...
 
Whoever it is that does the next Jon Jones interview needs to ask Jon if he would be willing to take a polygraph. I would love to see the look on his face when asked that question
It's possible to beat lie detectors.
 
There's 0% chance his lawyer and or manager let's that happen.
 
Whoever it is that does the next Jon Jones interview needs to ask Jon if he would be willing to take a polygraph. I would love to see the look on his face when asked that question

Would you guys stop it already with these stupid threads clogging up the 1st page. Get a fucking life already!! Get a job or something and STFU. He got popped. He'll get suspended and his career will go into the toilet. Nothing more to be said with your stupid Matlock theories.
 
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