Israeli & Gaza Protests. 4/20/18 Clashes at border continue.

[flashNsmash]

. Where is your proof of a 'significant' number of Chinese and Russian casualties in Korea, Vietnam, Afghanistan and Syria? Where is the body count? Show me some real links, not bullshit propaganda like your last source.

. Americans killed Koreans in Korea, Vietnamese in Vietnam, Taliban in Afghanistan, and Syrians/ISIS in Syria. There was no 'significant' engagement of Chinese or Russians in any of those countries. None. Whatever numbers you want to use does not count as "U.S. support for an ally".

chicoms suffered half a million casualties in korea according to their own numbers, and those estimates are considered on the low side. don't know what you're on about

 

[Phr3121]

chicoms suffered half a million casualties in korea according to their own numbers, and those estimates are considered on the low side. don't know what you're on about.

No they did not. More like 150,000 according to Chinese 'propaganda'. Propaganda being the key word. Where is the American version of this story? This over a two month period in 1950.

My point is that Americans clearly fought and killed Koreans in the Korean War. China involvement for only 2 months? Please. The war never ended. We are at a cease fire. Koreans fought Americans from June, 1950 to July, 1953. Chinese involvement does not count for shit. The only thing the Chinese helped to accomplish was a cease fire.

 

[Phr3121]

"Why did the PRC (People's Republic of China) intervene in Korea? The PRC wanted to preserve a North Korean Communist State, but not to dominate it. Instead, the PRC wanted North Korea to serve as a buffer between Manchuria and the US dominated South Korea. The PRC viewpoint made a certain amount of sense. After all, since the US broke its promise not to cross the 38th Parallel, what reassurance could the Chinese have that the US would keep its promise and not cross the Yalu? Resolving to use force, PRC leaders decided that if they were going to fight the US, the initial attack would have to be as efficient as possible. For this reason, they planned a surprise attack, secretly moving troops across the Yalu. China, using the element of surprise, did not declare war. Furthermore, so that it could officially disavow responsibility, the PRC troops claimed to be 'volunteers'."

Source: http://www.sparknotes.com/history/american/koreanwar/section6/

 

[CauseImbetta]

LOL@"massacre".

More aggressive provocation and line-stepping masquerading as "protest".

Lets reverse it for a moment. Imagine the Palestinians had killed some Israelis for the same reason. You know full well might makes right and Palestinians would get cluster bombed and shelled to hell (again), more power outages, food restrictions and a blockade.

Need more evidence that it's an injustice? A Palestinian girl slapped an Israeli for being on HER land and she SHE IS GOING TO JAIL FOR 8 months.

https://thenewdaily.com.au/news/world/2018/03/22/ahed-tamimi-jailed-8-months/

Israel is an illegal occupying force. Look at root causes. Israel created 5 million Palestinian refugees. Strange that hasn't sunken in yet.

 

[mcveteran81]

Israeli air attack kills Palestinian at Gaza border

At least 21 Palestinians have been killed by Israeli forces since they started Land Day protests last Friday.

Link Source (Al Jaazera) : https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2018...-palestinian-gaza-border-180405114443912.html

An Israeli air strike killed another Palestinian protester near the Gaza Strip's border on Thursday, Palestinian health officials said.

Earlier, a Palestinian wounded during last Friday's Land Day protests died of an injury sustained after being shot in the head by Israeli soldiers.

The death brings the total number of Palestinians killed in the last week at 21.

No change to Israeli 'rules of engagement'
On Thursday, Israel's minister of Defence Avigdor Lieberman said Israel will not change its open-fire policy as protests are expected to continue near the Gaza border in the coming days and weeks.

"If there are provocations, there will be a reaction of the harshest kind like last week," Lieberman told public radio.

"We do not intend to change the rules of engagement."

Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu had previously praised the Israeli military in a statement, thanking them for "guarding the country's borders" and allowing "Israeli citizens to celebrate the [Passover] holiday peacefully".

"Well done to our soldiers," he said

 

[mcveteran81]

Israeli Army to Investigate Gazan Protesters' Deaths as Second Border Rally Approaches

Organizers expect more than 35,000 participants in second weekend of protests ■ Israeli military deploys extra forces and maintains regulations for opening fire ■ IDF aircraft attacks armed Palestinian near border.

Link Source (Haaretz News) : https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east...s-with-burning-tires-at-gaza-border-1.5976996

the second wave of the March of Return protests will begin this Friday morning near the Gazan border with Israel.

 

[mcveteran81]

GAZANS GATHER OVER 10,000 TIRES TO BURN FOR FRIDAY PROTEST

Link Source (Jerusalem Post) : http://www.jpost.com/Breaking-News/Gazans-gather-over-10000-tires-to-burn-for-Friday-protest-548979

Palestinian protesters in the Gaza Strip have gathered over 10,000 tires that they intend to set alight as part of the upcoming Friday protest along the border with Israel, Hamas sources have reported.

"The youth are doing an amazing job," "March of Return" protester Muhammad Matar is quoted as saying in the Hamas weekly Al-Risala. "They are working around the clock in order to obstruct the Israeli snipers' field of vision."

Al-Risala also reported that the protesters have prepared sirens to confuse IDF soldiers.

 

[mcveteran81]

Link Source (Some random Jews News site) : http://hamodia.com/2018/04/05/hamas-gazans-bring-sunglasses-friday/

Israeli planes overnight Wednesday targeted an Arab terrorist who was operating along the Gaza border fence. The terrorist was armed and apparently on his way to attempt to cross the fence. In a statement, the IDF said that it “will not allow the security of Israelis to be harmed and will use all means at its disposal against terrorists.”

Rioting took place yet again on Thursday morning as Hamas continued to gear up for major rioting it hopes to instigate on Friday. Several hundred rioters attempted to push their way to the Gaza border, burning tires and throwing stones and firebombs at soldiers. Soldiers used anti-riot measures against the mobs.

In new leaflets distributed by Hamas to residents of Gaza, the terror group listed instructions for those participating in the riots – which, it said, would feature the burning of thousands of tires, in an attempt to create enough smoke to blind Israeli soldiers and divert their attention in order to break through the border fence. Participants were told to bring gas masks or medical masks if they had them, sunglasses or other eye protection, and if they had them, laser sticks – also to be used to blind Israeli soldiers.

 

[SammyPops]

Chosen people >

 

[VivaRevolution]

Link Source (Some random Jews News site) : http://hamodia.com/2018/04/05/hamas-gazans-bring-sunglasses-friday/

Israeli planes overnight Wednesday targeted an Arab terrorist who was operating along the Gaza border fence. The terrorist was armed and apparently on his way to attempt to cross the fence. In a statement, the IDF said that it “will not allow the security of Israelis to be harmed and will use all means at its disposal against terrorists.”

Rioting took place yet again on Thursday morning as Hamas continued to gear up for major rioting it hopes to instigate on Friday. Several hundred rioters attempted to push their way to the Gaza border, burning tires and throwing stones and firebombs at soldiers. Soldiers used anti-riot measures against the mobs.

In new leaflets distributed by Hamas to residents of Gaza, the terror group listed instructions for those participating in the riots – which, it said, would feature the burning of thousands of tires, in an attempt to create enough smoke to blind Israeli soldiers and divert their attention in order to break through the border fence. Participants were told to bring gas masks or medical masks if they had them, sunglasses or other eye protection, and if they had them, laser sticks – also to be used to blind Israeli soldiers.

Needs a sweating 2 button meme.

Hippy

Button 1
Oppose Palestinians

Button 2
Support burning 10000 tires

 

[Quipling]

Edit

 

[Seaside]

What contradicting book? What bias? Not really sure what you are referring to.



Again, not really sure what you are trying to say. I'm the kind of Catholic who questions the Church and the Bible. Was the Bible not written by man? Is the Pope not a man? Did God or Jesus write the Bible? Both the Catholic Church and the Bible have been wrong on so many accounts. Do you believe everything that is told to you? Everything that you read? Are you part of a blind 'flock' that follows whatever is told to you? My faith does not come from a book (Bible), a man (priest), or a building (church). Faith is much deeper than that. You have to experience it for yourself, not be told about it.

If you question so much of it then to be honest it does not make sense to be religious. Why question truth of text (valditity) i think the word but then still follow it? i will give you that catholicism was and is older and many ways i think more logical it original inception than many protestant branches. However i question why you even ar einto that all when you yourself are not convinced it seems. I was catholic before by way and studied it in school. ISIS is really no different than the wahhabi and thinking of hanbali and many malaki sunni muslims (except covering women everwhere) and some minor other stuff which only some hanbali muslims agree with but is the practice of the gulf states. To see christianity is contradicting and illogical you have to approach it from a non religious view point or outside view otherwise you always have your bias and see and ignore or excuse all ignorance and contradictions within it.

 

[abiG]

To Israel's supporters:

What if anything do you consider legitimate resistance to occupation?

 

[Quipling]

And? As the story goes, post Egypt, God allowed them to go to check out Canaan. And we aren't trying to use the bible as an historical reference. I was referring specifically to our rabbis and sages and their own words.

Spoiler

This is not posted as a defense of Zionism, but instead to point out that you do not speak for all Jews, and are misrepresenting whether your position is clearly supported by "real" Judaism as derived from the Hebrew bible or Rabbinical teachings and acts.

.

The book of Joshua, Chapters 2-12, is literally an account of a nigh-genocidal military conquest of Canaan. This echoes the instruction given in Deuteronomy 20 on how to make war against the peoples residing in the "cities of the land that the lord is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely give them over to G-d." (ie, destroy them)

But you've made reference to the words of "our" rabbis and sages, rather than the Hebrew bible, so let's turn there. Now, @hillelslovak87 and @JbModest may be better read on this front than I am (I haven't taken this seriously since grade school). Nevertheless, I'm comfortable enough with the subject to conclude that you aren't as familiar as you represent. Plenty of highly regarded rabbis recognized the book of Joshua as describing a divinely required conquest, and not a trip to "check out" Canaan. (e.g., Rashi on Joshua 4:10, 13:3, determining that there was a duty to conquer the "land promised to you" before it could be received). Although they differ on some details, those differences aren't in ways that support your claim. (Cf. Maimonides also referred to the conquest of Canaan as an "obligatory war" of conquest based on Deuteronomy, but maintained that the Israelites were first required to offer peace even in obligatory wars, whereas Rashi believed that extermination was required by Deuteronomy unless they converted).

Where you're definitely talking out of your ass is your appeal to the prohibitions against murder and theft. Yes, those are fundamental laws in the Torah and rabbinical tradition. But the Torah (and Book of Joshua) also expressly demands the "extermination" of amalek and the destruction of tribes residing in canaan, which, as discussed, the rabbis recognized. They've spilled some amount of ink reconciling the two, with various claims that these actions are not murder or theft (which may be distinguished as unlawful killing or taking), such as: (1) such aggression is rendered acceptable via the divine mandate provided by those requirements (the debate here is over whether the mandate has expired - some minority zionist sects believe it has not, although the majority belief is that it has); (2) canaan is/was not "stolen" because it, in fact, belonged to the israelites and the conquest was therefore reclamation from the occupiers, not theft; (3) these were acts of self-defense, not aggression (some combination of two and three are the most popular among religious zionists); and (4) the "destruction" is metaphorical and would have been satisfied by compliance with the noachide laws (we can thank Maimonides for this, again).

Furthermore, we are REQUIRED BY GOD to remain in our diaspora until our time is done

This is an extreme minority view in judaism that primarily exists within some haredi and hasidic subsects (e.g., Satmar, Neturei Karta). I'm going to guess that you're either a member of one of these groups (plausible, given some of your holocaust-related threads), have adopted some but not all of their beliefs (would be unusual), or not actually Jewish (also plausible).

In any case, this requirement would have been news to many of the Rabbis and sages you just appealed to, given how many of them either visited or resided in israel/palestine post-diaspora and the general absence of condemnation of the substantial jewish population in Palestine and Gallillee. (There's even a fair amount of rabbinical praise for opportunities to return to Jerusalem, notably during the Ottoman era).

Of course, there's another issue in that the justification you're asking for is a strawman. Zionists generally don't believe that they are engaging in genocide at all, so (with the exception of the divine mandate hasn't expired minority already mentioned), why would they need to believe that genocide is scripturally required?

 

[JbModest]

To Israel's supporters:

What if anything do you consider legitimate resistance to occupation?

Peaceful protests. Don't attempt to storm the wall/fence. Your meme is hyperbole.I question that you're Jewish. You seem like more of an atheist to me. Your use of the term Naqba only reinforces that doubt.

 

[JbModest]

Spoiler

This is not posted as a defense of Zionism, but instead to point out that you do not speak for all Jews, and are misrepresenting whether your position is clearly supported by "real" Judaism as derived from the Hebrew bible or Rabbinical teachings and acts.

.

The book of Joshua, Chapters 2-12, is literally an account of a nigh-genocidal military conquest of Canaan. This echoes the instruction given in Deuteronomy 20 on how to make war against the peoples residing in the "cities of the land that the lord is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely give them over to G-d." (ie, destroy them)

But you've made reference to the words of "our" rabbis and sages, rather than the Hebrew bible, so let's turn there. Now, @hillelslovak87 and @JbModest may be better read on this front than I am (I haven't taken this seriously since grade school). Nevertheless, I'm comfortable enough with the subject to conclude that you aren't as familiar as you represent. Plenty of highly regarded rabbis recognized the book of Joshua as describing a divinely required conquest, and not a trip to "check out" Canaan. (e.g., Rashi on Joshua 4:10, 13:3, determining that there was a duty to conquer the "land promised to you" before it could be received). Although they differ on some details, those differences aren't in ways that support your claim. (Cf. Maimonides also referred to the conquest of Canaan as an "obligatory war" of conquest based on Deuteronomy, but maintained that the Israelites were first required to offer peace even in obligatory wars, whereas Rashi believed that extermination was required by Deuteronomy unless they converted).

Where you're definitely talking out of your ass is your appeal to the prohibitions against murder and theft. Yes, those are fundamental laws in the Torah and rabbinical tradition. But the Torah (and Book of Joshua) also expressly demands the "extermination" of amalek and the destruction of tribes residing in canaan, which, as discussed, the rabbis recognized. They've spilled some amount of ink reconciling the two, with various claims that these actions are not murder or theft (which may be distinguished as unlawful killing or taking), such as: (1) such aggression is rendered acceptable via the divine mandate provided by those requirements (the debate here is over whether the mandate has expired - some minority zionist sects believe it has not, although the majority belief is that it has); (2) canaan is/was not "stolen" because it, in fact, belonged to the israelites and the conquest was therefore reclamation from the occupiers, not theft; (3) these were acts of self-defense, not aggression (some combination of two and three are the most popular among religious zionists); and (4) the "destruction" is metaphorical and would have been satisfied by compliance with the noachide laws (we can thank Maimonides for this, again).


This is an extreme minority view in judaism that primarily exists within some haredi and hasidic subsects (e.g., Satmar, Neturei Karta). I'm going to guess that you're either a member of one of these groups (plausible, given some of your holocaust-related threads), have adopted some but not all of their beliefs (would be unusual), or not actually Jewish (also plausible).

In any case, this requirement would have been news to many of the Rabbis and sages you just appealed to, given how many of them either visited or resided in israel/palestine post-diaspora and the general absence of condemnation of the substantial jewish population in Palestine and Gallillee. (There's even a fair amount of rabbinical praise for opportunities to return to Jerusalem, notably during the Ottoman era).

Of course, there's another issue in that the justification you're asking for is a strawman. Zionists generally don't believe that they are engaging in genocide at all, so (with the exception of the divine mandate hasn't expired minority already mentioned), why would they need to believe that genocide is scripturally required?

Sorry, can't really give you an answer since it's been years since I went to Hebrew school. Perhaps she's referring to the Talmud.

 

[abiG]

This is not posted as a defense of Zionism, but instead to point out that you do not speak for all Jews, and are misrepresenting whether your position is clearly supported by "real" Judaism as derived from the Hebrew bible or Rabbinical teachings and acts.

Whoa.

I never claimed to speak for all Jews, nor did I claim anything about "real" Judaism. I was speaking of traditional Judaism.

Now, I was going to clear this up earlier, but felt leaving it alone was easier. Firstly, you both have either misread or misinterpreted my initial post. These instances you both refer to regarding taking land by force were commanded by God. Additionally, you made the exact same mistake that the previous poster made in this regard. Multiple times were Jews (per our Torah) were thrown into a diaspora. You are back in Canaan. This is even pre-biblical-Israel. Our Talmud, written centuries later that we consider the foundation of Jewish law has numerous mentions and statements from our Rabbis and Sages. Beyond the Talmud, many of these men wrote in depth about the Torah/Talmud and their statements have been known in our religion for millennia.

I could go on for days with examples, but start here:
The messiah will gather in the Jews from exile. Whoever does not believe in him is denying the Torah, which says (Deuteronomy 30:3), “The L-rd your G-d will restore your exiles and have mercy on you.” (Laws of Kings 11:1)
--Maimonides (1135-1204)

-----

Living in the Holy Land is a meritorious act; nevertheless, the Jewish people must not all go up together with a strong hand, in an act similar to the ingathering of the exiles, for they are not permitted to hasten the end, until the Creator hastens our redemption. (Piskei Riaz, Kesubos 13:8)
--Rabbi Yishaya ben Eliyahu Di Trani (c. 1300)

-----

The prayer “G-d of salvations, in the four oaths” is a reference to the oaths of the Song of Songs. We ask G-d: Save us, for You have made us swear not to rebel against the nations, and we are keeping your oath in exile and bearing the yoke of exile.
--Rashi (1040-1105)

This is what I mean by traditional Judaism. This was Jewish thinking since Judaism according to our Rabbis and Sages. Jewish thinking prior to zionism that is holds as true today as it always has.

For over two thousand years the Jewish people accepted their exile as a Divine decree. Jews never attempted a rebellion against their host nations or other peoples. There were no plans or efforts ever made to wrest the Holy Land from its rulers or inhabitants at any point in the long history of Jewish exile....

Zionism represents a total and radical break with the beliefs and practices of the Jewish people throughout history.

--Central Rabbinical Congress of the U.S.A. & Canada
Established in 1952, is a worldwide organization representing over 150 orthodox communities - The New York Times, Sunday, February 11, 2001
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Rabbinical_Congress

 

[abiG]

Peaceful protests. Don't attempt to storm the wall/fence. Your meme is hyperbole.I question that you're Jewish. You seem like more of an atheist to me. Your use of the term Naqba only reinforces that doubt.

But, you never answered the simple question. What, if anything to you, is legitimate resistance to occupation?

 

[cincymma79]

But, you never answered the simple question. What, if anything to you, is legitimate resistance to occupation?

Why are there no protests on their other border

 

[Seaside]

Spoiler

This is not posted as a defense of Zionism, but instead to point out that you do not speak for all Jews, and are misrepresenting whether your position is clearly supported by "real" Judaism as derived from the Hebrew bible or Rabbinical teachings and acts.

.

The book of Joshua, Chapters 2-12, is literally an account of a nigh-genocidal military conquest of Canaan. This echoes the instruction given in Deuteronomy 20 on how to make war against the peoples residing in the "cities of the land that the lord is giving you as an inheritance, do not leave alive anything that breathes. Completely give them over to G-d." (ie, destroy them)

But you've made reference to the words of "our" rabbis and sages, rather than the Hebrew bible, so let's turn there. Now, @hillelslovak87 and @JbModest may be better read on this front than I am (I haven't taken this seriously since grade school). Nevertheless, I'm comfortable enough with the subject to conclude that you aren't as familiar as you represent. Plenty of highly regarded rabbis recognized the book of Joshua as describing a divinely required conquest, and not a trip to "check out" Canaan. (e.g., Rashi on Joshua 4:10, 13:3, determining that there was a duty to conquer the "land promised to you" before it could be received). Although they differ on some details, those differences aren't in ways that support your claim. (Cf. Maimonides also referred to the conquest of Canaan as an "obligatory war" of conquest based on Deuteronomy, but maintained that the Israelites were first required to offer peace even in obligatory wars, whereas Rashi believed that extermination was required by Deuteronomy unless they converted).

Where you're definitely talking out of your ass is your appeal to the prohibitions against murder and theft. Yes, those are fundamental laws in the Torah and rabbinical tradition. But the Torah (and Book of Joshua) also expressly demands the "extermination" of amalek and the destruction of tribes residing in canaan, which, as discussed, the rabbis recognized. They've spilled some amount of ink reconciling the two, with various claims that these actions are not murder or theft (which may be distinguished as unlawful killing or taking), such as: (1) such aggression is rendered acceptable via the divine mandate provided by those requirements (the debate here is over whether the mandate has expired - some minority zionist sects believe it has not, although the majority belief is that it has); (2) canaan is/was not "stolen" because it, in fact, belonged to the israelites and the conquest was therefore reclamation from the occupiers, not theft; (3) these were acts of self-defense, not aggression (some combination of two and three are the most popular among religious zionists); and (4) the "destruction" is metaphorical and would have been satisfied by compliance with the noachide laws (we can thank Maimonides for this, again).


This is an extreme minority view in judaism that primarily exists within some haredi and hasidic subsects (e.g., Satmar, Neturei Karta). I'm going to guess that you're either a member of one of these groups (plausible, given some of your holocaust-related threads), have adopted some but not all of their beliefs (would be unusual), or not actually Jewish (also plausible).

In any case, this requirement would have been news to many of the Rabbis and sages you just appealed to, given how many of them either visited or resided in israel/palestine post-diaspora and the general absence of condemnation of the substantial jewish population in Palestine and Gallillee. (There's even a fair amount of rabbinical praise for opportunities to return to Jerusalem, notably during the Ottoman era).

Of course, there's another issue in that the justification you're asking for is a strawman. Zionists generally don't believe that they are engaging in genocide at all, so (with the exception of the divine mandate hasn't expired minority already mentioned), why would they need to believe that genocide is scripturally required?

do you really believe this person is jewish? when there posts are 24/7 Israel bashing, and ´zionism´bashing? Anyone on internet can claim be something and google basics of whatever that identity is. It highly unlikely i doubt this individual is even liberal driven jew as this person is obsessed with only ´behavior´Israel does and not rest of muslim world, arab world or rest of 2nd and 3rd world. I doubt this poster is neturei karta as i doubt they even use computers or would go to a mma forum. Also there is argument for remaining in the diaspora only as long as gentile nations do not oppress jews but if that is broken (which it can be argued it has by holocaust, muslim expulsion, inqusition, and russian empire pogroms) then it go out window.