International Israel vs. Palestine Discussion- War of 2014

[drowningidiot]

hiya Possum,

i've tried to tell this to OldGoat, as well as several other posters who blithely suggested that the Palestinians "just leave".

if OldGoat was a Palestinian, though - he'd still just leave. he'd leave his friends and family behind and take care of himself....he'd just drive his Honda Civic from Gaza to Alabama, buy a house, get himself a job and resettle.

*presto*

just like that.

- IGIT

This could be the premise of a hit TV series. Somebody should pitch it to the networks.

 

[IGIT]

The truth is, if I was born in Gaza or the West Bank, I'd likely be a freedom fighter against Israel's unjust occupation.

Just like if I was born in Israel, I'd support military intervention into the terrorists who keep lobbing missiles at me.

Weird, right?

lol, hello Jukai,

not so wierd, at least to me.

sounds reasonable.

from my pov, the people suggesting that the inhabitants of Gaza "just move", or "seek peace, be like Ghandi", or "teach literacy!" are having an acute inability to empathize with what it must be like to live under the iron fist of Israel.

i mean, heck....in this country, we absolutely freak out at the NSC collecting data on our purchases at Target and Banana Republic - yet seem curiously philosophical about strip-search detentions and land grabs.

i find it most odd.

my conclusion, thus far, is that Americans have the ability to endure the suffering of other people remarkably well.

there's alot of "if I was there, you wouldn't see me acting like them....i'd be different!"

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

http://www.smh.com.au/comment/the-hamas-trap-hidden-labyrinth-was-wired-for-war-20140803-zzznh.html

Good piece here in the Sydney Herald, a rare free thinking editorial, laying out the stark truth of the Hamas underground war machine, it's stockpiling of terrorist munitions and use of civilian population as shields. Plus that complete and utter **** Kerry and his attempts to get Israel to allow Hamas to keep all their terror capability. Fuck off Kerry.

hi Flamma,

i'm glad you got that off my chest, my friend.

so then, if you were stuck living as a Palestinian in the Gaza strip, you'd be saying something along of the lines of, "we deserve this", right?

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

hiya Ben Zona,

what does that picture mean? there isn't any commentary, just a picture of Ghandi.

are you saying that under these conditions;

You live in limbo in a country occupied by a repressive foreign army and a system of institutionalized and codified racism.

You have no recognized nation, no right of citizenship and no power over your own daily life.

You live in a constant state of fear.

The occupier imposes economic strangulation and collective punishment by restricting free movement; enclosing population centers; closing borders; barring most of your people from working inside

 

[IGIT]

hello LionExMachina,

The Palestinians choose Hamas because the saw Fatah as a bunch of inefficient, corrupt Uncle Toms.

Arafat was said to be a boy-touching money skimmer. Dude had millions stashed away for his family and himself while the rest of his people in occupied Palestine lived with the bare essentials.

the Palestinians didn't give Arafat the boot in favor of Hamas over his accumulated wealth, though. i mean, Mr. Arafat wasn't alive in 2006 when Hamas dominated the elections in Palestine. the reality is that the Palestinians, in a way, dealt themselves the hand they're currently stuck with - they voted Hamas into power.

don't you agree? i mean, Hamas' raison d'

 

[Pelosi2020]

For real though...

As a tax-paying American, I support this.

How about bringing the Palestinians over here instead?
Israel has their own land. Palestinians don't.

 

[Chinballs]

This thread was pretty cool. The amount of ducking™ would put the /f2 to shame.

Myself I would move and live my life away from hatred and violence. Any civilized country would do given limited options.

If the local culture gave me no intelligence growing up there I would turn to violence and make people feel the pain I felt and die a meaningless death. My life would be like a fart in space and I would never get to know much other then hatred I wager.

 

[OldGoat]

IGIT, what's with your recent posting style? It's borderline ridiculous and awfully patronizing at this point.

Read what people are saying and stop putting words in their mouths. People are giving fine answers to a wack question. Respect that.

Where's the reasonable IGIT?

 

[IGIT]

This thread was pretty cool. The amount of ducking™ would put the /f2 to shame.

Myself I would move and live my life away from hatred and violence. Any civilized country would do given limited options.

If the local culture gave me no intelligence growing up there I would turn to violence and make people feel the pain I felt and die a meaningless death. My life would be like a fart in space and I would never get to know much other then hatred I wager.

nice to meet you Chinballs,

if i was in Gaza with all my American sensibilities, all my connections from America, along with all the money i have (along with my family's)...yeah, absolutely. i'd pay off whoever needed to be paid off and leave the country.

if i was born and raised within Gaza, i'm pretty sure i'd be trying to maximize the loss of life on the Israeli side of the border if i'd suffered losses like this fellow did.

Dr. Zeyada, 50, works to destigmatize mental health care for a Palestinian population exposed repeatedly to war and displacement, practicing at the Gaza Community Mental Health Program, which was led by the pioneering Palestinian psychiatrist and human-rights advocate Dr. Eyad El-Sarraj until his death from leukemia in December.

Dr. Zeyada was counseling those who had lost friends and family to the IDF. a source of reflection and healing to his fellow Palestinians.

now he's the one in counseling.

An Israeli airstrike demolished Dr. Zeyada’s family home on July 20, killing six close relatives, including his mother and three of his brothers.

“You try to help the people with their suffering,” the doctor said recently in his Gaza City living room, lined with psychology textbooks. “It’s totally different when you have the same experience. You lose six from your family — three brothers, your mom, one of your nephews, your sister-in-law. It’s really” — he paused, red-eyed — “unexpected.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/05/w...egion&region=lede-package&WT.nav=lede-package

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

IGIT, what's with your recent posting style? It's borderline ridiculous and awfully patronizing at this point.

Read what people are saying and stop putting words in their mouths. People are giving fine answers to a wack question. Respect that.

Where's the reasonable IGIT?

hiya Oldest of Goats,

the reasonable IGIT is still here.

there exists within IGIT a kind of duality....a mirthful soul mixed with a pragmatic reasoner. the battle rages on within even as we speak.

ok, i'm kidding OldGoat my good friend.

look. you need to be realistic here....and you're not being realistic, lol. you know i don't favor being impolite or mean spirited, but you don't know what you're talking about when you say "i'd just leave" Gaza. its a ridiculous statement. you might as well be saying the sun is shaped like a cube or that Mitt Romney is secretly a woman.

its goofy. you can't leave Gaza just like that. you can't just hop into your OldGoatMobile and blaze outta there. it doesn't work like that.

there are two ways out of Gaza, Israel and Egypt. since Morsi went sayonara, the Rafah crossing has been closed. kaput. not open for business.

the other way is Israel.

the coast of Gaza is blockaded by Israel, and has been for quite some time.

the Gaza airport is....currently deserted. it's been bombed.

so i apologize for being rude, i don't mean to be....i'm just a little exasperated. you usually make some kind of sense, even when we disagree.

- IGIT

 

[OldGoat]

hiya Oldest of Goats,

the reasonable IGIT is still here.

there exists within IGIT a kind of duality....a mirthful soul mixed with a pragmatic reasoner. the battle rages on within even as we speak.

ok, i'm kidding OldGoat my good friend.

look. you need to be realistic here....and you're not being realistic, lol. you know i don't favor being impolite or mean spirited, but you don't know what you're talking about when you say "i'd just leave" Gaza. its a ridiculous statement. you might as well be saying the sun is shaped like a cube or that Mitt Romney is secretly a woman.

its goofy. you can't leave Gaza just like that. you can't just hop into your OldGoatMobile and blaze outta there. it doesn't work like that.

there are two ways out of Gaza, Israel and Egypt. since Morsi went sayonara, the Rafah crossing has been closed. kaput. not open for business.

the other way is Israel.

the coast of Gaza is blockaded by Israel, and has been for quite some time.

the Gaza airport is....currently deserted. it's been bombed.

so i apologize for being rude, i don't mean to be....i'm just a little exasperated. you usually make some kind of sense, even when we disagree.

- IGIT

Israel wouldn't be doing what they are doing if they didn't need to do what they are doing. You cannot say the same about their Arab neighbors. So forgive me if I don't feel any sympathy for those who lost a war.

We are all on this planet because we have displaced some other living critter. It's called survival of the fittest for a reason and I am cognizant that propaganda is just one tool in the arsenal of organisms.

So why the fascination with this one particular and relatively minor conflict on this huge globe?

 

[Chinballs]

Spoiler

nice to meet you Chinballs,

if i was in Gaza with all my American sensibilities, all my connections from America, along with all the money i have (along with my family's)...yeah, absolutely. i'd pay off whoever needed to be paid off and leave the country.

if i was born and raised within Gaza, i'm pretty sure i'd be trying to maximize the loss of life on the Israeli side of the border if i'd suffered losses like this fellow did.


Dr. Zeyada was counseling those who had lost friends and family to the IDF. a source of reflection and healing to his fellow Palestinians.

now he's the one in counseling.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/08/05/w...egion&region=lede-package&WT.nav=lede-package

- IGIT

Nice to meet you too IGIT.

To be fair, I've heard your kind of question a thousand times but given other parameters of course. In my experience 99/100 people will answer with what they would do given who they are today.

It's a tall order to ask people to imagine what they might be in a completely different culture under a completely different political environment.

As if that would be hard, now you must also add desperate and extreme biological mechanics (hatred, loss of relatives etc etc etc) before you're imagination has carved out a silhouette, even remotely close to any realistic answer.

I'm saying, that most people doesn't even know themselves as they are.

 

[IGIT]

hello OldGoat,

Israel wouldn't be doing what they are doing if they didn't need to do what they are doing. You cannot say the same about their Arab neighbors. So forgive me if I don't feel any sympathy for those who lost a war.

We are all on this planet because we have displaced some other living critter. It's called survival of the fittest for a reason and I am cognizant that propaganda is just one tool in the arsenal of organisms.

Old Goat...Old Goat...Goat Old...are you trolling me?

i just addressed the absurdity of your "i'd just leave" response to the OP. i took the time and laid out my argument, and i thought i was being pretty reasonable.

what you just responded with is a rant...an off topic one at that.

So why the fascination with this one particular and relatively minor conflict on this huge globe?

i'm unclear what you're asking me. are you literally asking me why i have an interest in Israeli/Palestinian affairs?

i can answer you, but i'm really unclear what on earth this has to do with the OP.

- IGIT

 

[IGIT]

hello again Chinballs,

Nice to meet you too IGIT.

To be fair, I've heard your kind of question a thousand times but given other parameters of course. In my experience 99/100 people will answer with what they would do given who they are today.

the thing is, i'm honestly curious how they'd handle things if they were exactly who they currently are, with exactly the same education....except now they are Palestinian, and in Gaza, with none of their American money or other assets.

no Visa.

no American Express.

i think its hard enough trying to put yourself in someone else's place...for my purposes, they can just be themselves.

how would they feel if their daughter was detained and strip searched...if their guns were taken away....if their property was bulldozed...if half their family was blown to smithereens via Hellfire missiles courtesy of the IDF?

what would they do then?

It's a tall order to ask people to imagine what they might be in a completely different culture under a completely different political environment.

i understand that, and agree. that is why i laid out some of the parameters of life in Gaza and the West Bank.

As if that would be hard, now you must also add desperate and extreme biological mechanics (hatred, loss of relatives etc etc etc) before you're imagination has carved out a silhouette, even remotely close to any realistic answer.

you may be right on this, but if you are, then i'm just sort of disappointed in people.

it seems easy to reflect on how this nation itself responded to the Boston Marathon bombing. i mean, i'm citing really recent history here. a handful of people dead, and it was like a psychic wail passed through the nation.

the public displays of grief which bordered on exhibitionism...i kept waiting for some news anchor to gravely intone, "TODAY, WE ARE ALL BOSTONIANS".

you take that reality, and hold it against some of the measured, thoughtful responses to living in an apartheid state...lol. it doesn't quite seem to match up, to me.

I'm saying, that most people doesn't even know themselves as they are.

yep.

i'd agree with you.

- IGIT

 

[OldGoat]

hello OldGoat,



Old Goat...Old Goat...Goat Old...are you trolling me?

i just addressed the absurdity of your "i'd just leave" response to the OP. i took the time and laid out my argument, and i thought i was being pretty reasonable.

what you just responded with is a rant...an off topic one at that.



i'm unclear what you're asking me. are you literally asking me why i have an interest in Israeli/Palestinian affairs?

i can answer you, but i'm really unclear what on earth this has to do with the OP.

- IGIT

It has everything to do with the OP. For one, what you choose to talk about is as meaningful as to what you say when you talk about it.

 

[IGIT]

It has everything to do with the OP. For one, what you choose to talk about is as meaningful as to what you say when you talk about it.

hi OldGoat,

ok OldGoat. i'll let you have the last word here.

i'm sleepy.

- IGIT

 

[MadSquabbles500]

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/07/29/how-hamas-plans-to-win-by-losing/

Why Hamas keeps on fighting? They cant win the ground battle ever, but they can win overseas public opinion. Indeed, a bold move.

Israeli officials are constantly on the air saying how Hamas has rejected cease fire after cease fire. But after a few times, it is just going to look like, "well they rejected your terms, and so now you are just killing their kids". This seems like a good strategy, but I really wonder how long the civilians can keep up with this. At some point the Palestinians may turn on Hamas.

The Palestinians civilians can be the key. Might Israel change its strategy to include them in.

 

[Queen B]

Hamas sacrifices children to win the sympathy vote

 

[Landos]

There's plenty of useful idiots. I've seen fb flooded with syrian pictures with a gaza tag on them

 

[Bargey]

A free Palestine with access to water, education, jobs, power and sea resources with a standing military would crush Hamas as we know it or force it to change. Israel do not want this it seems. Why else would they continue to bombs water wells, schools and power plants? I don't think Hamas is much of a factor here when there are far deeper more fundamental issues. When basic dignity and human rights are trashed as they are in Gaza which is continually referred to as the largest open air prison in the world, and where land is continually stolen in the West Bank, you are going to have a people who are going to turn to someone who can advocate for them in the strongest possible terms.

Even I, an educated person with full access to the Israeli narrative through my Israel-supporting government and the MSM are really skeptical that Israel want peace and a viable two-state solution (well skepticism is somewhat of an understatement since Netnyahu basically admitted as much). So how can i, we really expect the Palis to say "hey, we need to trust in peace and the Israelis."

Really the article is typical of Foxnews. Lazy, biased, simplistic and misleading.