Isn't catch wrestling superior to BJJ?

Pierced7681 said:
Great post, though I think bjj itself was created through cross pollination right?

Bjj stole from Japanese jiu jitsu, judo and catch wrestling.
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I would say it is more like 1917 judo that got modernised by Brazilians.
 
These Two Hands said:
Well, I'd wager my blue in BJJ was a lot harder fuckin earned... Achoo!
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Don't flatter yourself. Most BJJ schools award belts after sticking around certain periods of time, just like Karate schools. Also, blue belt in BJJ is the first coloured belt, while it's the third in TKD (only red left before black).
 
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spacetime said:
Yeah but grappling without submissions sounds weird. Then it's just wrestling to me.
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Well. I started training 15 years ago and we had to add the submission before grappling because we needed to different iate ourself to avoid confusion otherwise people would freak out once you start submitting them.

It is not like they did not like it but it was not normal.
I did a wrestling class and use a kimura trap to throw a wrestler. Basically kimura the dude until he flipped in the air.
 
lechien said:
Well. I started training 15 years ago and we had to add the submission before grappling because we needed to different iate ourself to avoid confusion otherwise people would freak out once you start submitting them.

It is not like they did not like it but it was not normal.
I did a wrestling class and use a kimura trap to throw a wrestler. Basically kimura the dude until he flipped in the air.
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I have a serious question about that, since you raised the issue. What if you faced a Greco Roman Wrestler 3x your strength, say Alistar Overeem-type - can you really prevent him from picking you up and dumping you on your head? Cant' they just rely on brute force?
 
spacetime said:
I have a serious question about that, since you raised the issue. What if you faced a Greco Roman Wrestler 3x your strength, say Alistar Overeem-type - can you really prevent him from picking you up and dumping you on your head? Cant' they just rely on brute force?
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I guess they could.

I mean I am sure wrestler picked people up and dropped them on their head all the time.

Actually the ibjjf made a new rule that you can't supplex someone on their head anymore.
 
Yes and it's not close

If kens master funaki fought prime rickson it would be close

Before that Karl gotch owns any Gracie maybe two at a time
 
spacetime said:
Yeah but grappling without submissions sounds weird. Then it's just wrestling to me.
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Grappling is any kind of unarmed live combat not involving strikes..

Much like takedowns in bjj the "difference" you speak of started to emerge when the bjj guys got scared of learning takedowns and risking being not as technical or good in an area of grappling to the hated evil meathead wrestlers
 
spacetime said:
Don't flatter yourself. Most BJJ schools award belts after sticking around certain periods of time, just like Karate schools. Also, blue belt in BJJ is the first coloured belt, while it's the third in TKD (only red left before black).
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What are you basing this on? Outside of the gracie affiliates who use a specific curriculum of 36 moves or whatever every school I've been to promotes and skill and has no time requirement
 
Pierced7681 said:
Great post, though I think bjj itself was created through cross pollination right?

Bjj stole from Japanese jiu jitsu, judo and catch wrestling.
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I don't know about Catch influence in BJJ, but it wouldn't surprise me. It's all largely the same stuff (only so many ways to bend an arm), but rule sets influence emphasis and development. As far as I know, BJJ is mostly old school Judo/JJJ developed to have an increased emphasis on ground work.
 
It's a little strange to me when people evaluate the effectiveness of a martial art on the basis of the uppermost competitors in the sport.

I'm more interested in how a martial art's effectiveness generalizes to the larger population of people.

I think you see different magnitudes of difference at different strata. IMO.
 
yetanother said:
Isn't Ameri-Do-Te vastly superior to catch wrestling?
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Ameri-Do-Te said:
Better Bullying Seminar

In Ameri-Do-Te we believe it’s not that bullying is bad. You just need to bully the bad kids. Teach your child how to recognize who deserves to be punished. (Please bring mouth guard, helmet and groin protection in case your child becomes a target.)
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Ameri-Do-Te said:
Kids Class

Teach your child the positive aspects of aggressive behavior with our Better Bullying program. Principles include:
Strength in Numbers Identifying Weakness Shifting Blame
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They made it as a joke, but in reality a lot of that really is some of the most true and positive things you can teach to a young boy trying to deal with life.
 
TheAmericanGazelle said:
It's a little strange to me when people evaluate the effectiveness of a martial art on the basis of the uppermost competitors in the sport.

I'm more interested in how a martial art's effectiveness generalizes to the larger population of people.

I think you see different magnitudes of difference at different strata. IMO.
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Then wouldn't wrestling win? given that average wrestlers with limited athletic ability have had more success than average bjj practioners, in fact take out the top say 5-10% of bjj guys and your point becomes especially salient
 
jack36767 said:
Then wouldn't wrestling win? given that average wrestlers with limited athletic ability have had more success than average bjj practionerst
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You mean the average catch wrestler?
Do you think a Dan the Wolfmen student would beat an average bjjer?
 
yetanother said:
You mean the average catch wrestler?
Do you think a Dan the Wolfmen student would beat an average bjjer?
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Oh I was joking about folk style wrestling vs Bjj. "Catch wrestlers" annoy me. All catch wrestling is at the end of the day is folk style wrestling without potentially dangerous or illegal holds. All the "special shit" Dan the dumbo shows are things taught in hundreds of wrestling rooms in the us
 
Are there any catch wrestlers this handsome though?
clark-gracie-front.jpg
 
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