Is wing chun really this good ?

Steeltwo said:
that dudes handspeed was INSANE
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but fighting is about quality. quantity means nothing if quality (power) of those punches are next to none.
 
BlackBeltNow said:
but fighting is about quality. quantity means nothing if quality (power) of those punches are next to none.
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There is far more to quality than power.

A quality strike is precise, fast, done at the right time, powerful and physiologically favourable.

Pretty much everybody can muster KO power without any training. But that doesn't a fighter make.
 
BlackBeltNow said:
but fighting is about quality. quantity means nothing if quality (power) of those punches are next to none.
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there is a video of bruce lee sparring someone with full gear on.

he used the basic knock down and backfist that you see that guy use. It was VERY effective.
Sure it isn't going to KO your opponent. But niether is a jab unless you are george foreman.

in the video, the other guy ended up getting so frustrated he did something stupid and got his ass kicked. all while mr.lee kept his composure with his tactics and never really put himself in danger.
 
yeah I remember watchin that. It was a big karate demonstration too
 
antant said:
I took Wing Chun for 6 years, (man, I'm probably the only guy whose taken the top 2 martial arts made fun of here at sherdog, the other being TKD).

From what I've seen and experienced with WC, they do have fast hands, and I couldn't think of a better Martial art that teaches reaction, coordination, and body awareness. You can literally do wing chun with another partner blind folded.

That being said, it has tremendous flaws, especially conerning REAL self defense. The simple fact that wing chun has defenses that deal only with the techniques from its own list of attacks tells you how limited it, and to a great extent other traditional martial arts are. (which is why the M in MMA means Mixed.)

One spot I see wing chun actually having an advantage in is its leg sweeps or "sticky" legs, if you've ever tried this out. I've actually used this while sparring with a buddy of mine. You understand how the body weight shifts when the hands move so when he slightly stepped forward to throw a jab, I swept his lead leg with a flick of my foot, not much power at all, and he went down flat. Easy as that. =P Its one reason why wing chun emphasizes rear leg weight placement.

Also, stomping on someone's knee at an angle seems like it has real world application. Never tried that though.
Overall, I wouldn't count on wing chun winning many fights....espcially against larger opponents who like to grapple. Which is ironic, because it was supposeldy developed to fight stronger people....hmmm.
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Cool input. What do you train in now? Does your previous training help you in that at all?
 
I was talking to this kid at my dojo that does win chun and he said shit like..


"We don't spar until we are level (such and such) technitions because the strikes can kill"

And.

"When it comes to the Mauy Thai I am not afraid of instructor (X) but if they were to use win chun they would destroy blah blah blah"

Personally, I am not fully convinced.

After I get my MT black I might try it out (I dont like poppin' off on things without experience)
 
also a lot of wing chun strikes are eye gouges or throat strikes, you don't need that much power for that.
 
After I get my MT black I might try it out (I dont like poppin' off on things without experience)
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What are you referring to? If you say Black Belt in Muay Thai I'm going to laugh my ass off.
 
Cool input. What do you train in now? Does your previous training help you in that at all?
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I trained in and sparred San Shou style, as well as BJJ recently for a little bit (very little), then had to move to another city for a job. Recently I've been looking to join a muay thai school.

Has WC helped at all? Hmmm I'd say only a little. I found very little use for it in San shou/San Da sparring. Why? Well, you can't use a lot of the hand "traps" simply because you'll end up clinching anyway and fighting for a throw or sweep. I LOVE wing chun for initiated attacks, which is where the effectivenss of eye, throat gouges, knee crushes, and foot sweeps comes into play. Modified, this part works well for sparring. (See Bruce Lee or wing chun wooden dummy)

As for BJJ...no help there obviously. If you wanna learn how to defend grappling, you gotta learn to grapple. Know your enemy and all that.

As a side note, I think I will be joining a Muay Thai/Boxing gym soon (BJJ on the side given time and money) and sticking with it for the rest of my training days to come, I think nothing replaces hard training with partners, a coach who is seasoned and real sparring time. Something you can't get much of in a Kung Fu-esque TMA, unless you've got a teacher who does that.
 
Hi everyone,

I trained Wing tsun under the same guy in the video...Master Tassos. I did it for three years. is it as good as what you see in the video...urmmm yes.

1) Sifu Tassos- keep in mind that Sifu Tassos has been training for many many (i think around 14 years) of solid training. Wing Tsun is his life. He has made his own organisation recently and was taught by the head of the EWTO. No regular guy can relate to his training, he trains more than any normal WC guy.Do those punches hurt? Yes they do. They do produce a significant amount of power...but it takes years and years to develop this.

2) Wing tsun-I personally think Wing Tsun is a load of rubbish, and I can say this because i did it for three years. I was a firm believer in the system and it was only when my bro in law an MMA addict started showing me realistic MMA attacks was when I realised that things werent right. Their biggest flaw is that they completley underestimate boxers speed, power and precision. We would do drills were we would practise defending against a jab/cross, i do boxing now and can tell you that their defences would not work.

Their is a lack of sparring, they teach "anti grappling" which is pants because they say it equips you against regular guys on the street (non grapplers) but how on earth would you know on the street if your opponent was a world class grappler or not? Nooone walks around with "grappler" written on their t shirt. They say they dont need BJJ, and that they have a SUPERIOR fighting system on the floor...ive seen the dvds for their anti grappling/ground fighting and i am telling you that its crap. It relies on eye gouges and other rubbish like that

My instructor advised me NOT to do any form of weights becuase it may "slow my hand speed down". Its a shame because after doing 3 years of WT my hand speed was reasonable but power was IMO feeble.

Self defense systems do work, against drunk untrained fools. The harsh reality of the matter is that many thugs train boxing/BJJ so you must be familiar with realistic attacks and Wing Chun does not provide you with this. There is no conditioning, no sparring. I train MMA now and have asked some of the guys at my old class if they wanna spar and they say "no becuase we would kick you in the balls and eye gouge" I said alright then anything goes and they made some other excuse up. Its ridiculous.

I went to a muay thai class and my eyes were opened and although my world came crashing down when i tried using WT defences against MT attacks, im happy I realised sooner rather than later. I now train at a well established MMA club and do boxing/MT 3 times a week and 2 lessons of BJJ/Wrestling and am not looking back. I can tell you now that if you wanna learn how to defend yourself,learn how to hit hard, hit fast and then get the hell outta there.
 
Oh and sorry if if it seems like im bashing TMA, I just feel VERY passionatly about this subject. I spent ALOT of money on it and I just hope other people dont make the same mistake as i did. I was brainwashed for 3 years.
 
Id say its great...as long as your slap boxing and the other guy just stands there and stares at you blankly
 
King Kabuki said:
What are you referring to? If you say Black Belt in Muay Thai I'm going to laugh my ass off.
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Laugh away

We use a belt system to track progress and for class organization.

I think it is dumb too, but thats how they do things.
 
people do not really fight that way, let that guy thro a haymaker and then see how his trapping skills are
 
SamuelDeath said:
Laugh away

We use a belt system to track progress and for class organization.

I think it is dumb too, but thats how they do things.
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You should quit.
 
I found the info from geoffreysquire and antant very interesting and informative. Thanks.

One thing I'd like to point out about geoffreysquire's post is that he points out that the WT guy is very good. It is his life and his passion. I don't doubt his skills in his areas of expertise. I was impressed with that video.

That being said I have also sparred with many people from other styles so I could get a feel for where I stood and what might be lacking in my own training. I think it is important for those who are serious and passionate for their TMA to do this and approach things with an open mind.

But I also think, when they encounter difficulty, that it is important that they keep a perspective on things. Too many times I've seen people get frustrated and say, "Everything I did is useless! I got submitted!!!"

They blame the art rather than HOW they are training in the art. I know, for example, that TKD is an effective art for getting good kicking power. I've sparred MT style many times and I've never had a guy want to eat those kicks. I've dropped people with them too. With proper bag work and lots of sparring it works great.

But then I've also been cornered and pummelled because my boxing isn't the best (never been knocked out, however, not even close). Plus I've been submitted in wrestling.

These weaknesses in my game are not the fault of TKD. TKD gave me the tool it focuses on, good kicking ability.

As a TMA instructor I don't know why so many TMA guys are threatened by MMA. Focus on an aspect of the game has ALWAYS been a reality in martial arts. I mean we all knew you did Judo if you wanted to learn throws and TKD if you wanted to learn kicks. This shouldn't be a news flash to anyone.

The main thing that I think is important to do, as an instructor, is to be honest with the students. If you are not an expert in something, don't lie and claim you are and don't say it is useless. If a student wants to learn throws or ground work say, "You should look into BJJ or Judo for that. I don't know much about it." Or in my case, with my limited Sambo experience, "I'm not good enough to teach you it. Plus I'm too busy, I want to be able to enjoy my own training..." Student respect honesty in these matters.

One more thing. I hate the whole Jeet Kune Do philosophy of abandoning 'what is useless'. If we abandon all of the focus in the particular martial arts we'll take the 'art' right out of it.

That is the way I see it...
 
the other guy wasn't attacking or hitting at all ! he had his arms out ready for the other guy to do his thing!

Of course it would look somewhat impressive.

Hell if Bas Rutten stood still and stuck his chin out for me to kick, id look good too!

I'd like to see this guy defend a takedown or an attack from a decent Muay thai fighter
 
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