Is there a way to make wrestling exciting without taking tools away from the wrestler?

[revoltub]

Ive been thinking, a lot of people point to yellow cards in pride, but in a way that takes away the wrestlers ability to "grind" which is something that happens in a real fight.

Now im not saying mma is a real fight, but I'm just saying that taking away someones ability to wrestle (just because you yourself can't) is too much of a rule manipulation.

Imagine if nobody knew how to jab and one guy learned. Now this jab isnt going to finish the fight, but it keeps him in control. He suffocates the other fighters offense with a jab and the fight drags on with no finish in sight. Now imagine if he got a yellow card for stalling. He wouldnt right? Because the long use of the jab eventually sets up a right hand, finishing the fight.

Just like how a long wrestling sequence can lead to a gnp or submission finish. This is my main problem with yellowcarding.

Another issue is using knees on the ground. I think,this would make it easier for wrestlers to finish fights, but the ufc will never allow it.

Ive heard taking away elbows would allow guys to get subs because of throwing punches and exposing arms.


In the end it seems we just have to deal with it.

Any thoughts or suggestions on a good way to increase action on the ground?

 

[BoD 2.0]

 

[TheRassler]

cut them all and send em all back to the minor leagues until they learn how to finish opponents.

only way to make them boring wrasslers exciting.

 

[Headkicktoleg]

Knees to the head of grounded opponents

 

[VVarhead]

Knees to the head of grounded opponents

Also upkicks from guard.

 

[acannxr]

Take away elbows and you take away lay-and-pray; it would force wrestlers to ground-and-pound or go for submissions.

 

[Typrune Goatley]

I am a wrestler and BJJ practitioner myself so I do love and appreciate grappling, however, it seems people get bored when the grappler stops moving(i.e. stalling). As long as they keep working, throwing GNP, looking to advance position, looking to set up submission attempts.

It may also help to adopt the PRIDE scoring system which rewarded damage above all. UFC seems to reward takedowns even if nothing happens on the ground after the takedown. The scoring must be re-formatted to force the wrestlers to keep working.

It would also be nice to adopt the Yellow Card system from PRIDE as well. The grappler on top will think twice about stalling if he knows 10% of his purse may be deducted.

 

[PubliusVentidius]

When they are in a dominant position they have to mimic a cowboy rope throw like Lesnar with Herring.

 

[phoenixikki]

If a round ends on the ground, the next round should continue on the ground.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Guys like Coleman and Kerr used to smash guys with knees and head butts on the ground. I think bringing back head butts is a bit too far, but I think knees to the head on the ground would make fights more exciting. Also eliminating the weird grey area between standing and grounded which stifles offense and leads to controversial referee decisions.

 

[alaskamma]

Yep, we teach casuals to appreciate all of mma, not just knockouts.

 

[ryanrandy]

Knees to the head of grounded opponents

Also upkicks from guard.

These definitely need to be added to the rules. Also throw in 12/6 elbows

 

[SeattleFightFan]

It may also help to adopt the PRIDE scoring system which rewarded damage above all. UFC seems to reward takedowns even if nothing happens on the ground after the takedown. The scoring must be re-formatted to force the wrestlers to keep working.

this is most important. people do it because it works. so take away the systemic reward of doing it.

if top position without any damage or submission attempts should be neutral. 3 elbows from the bottom > no damage from the top.

getting into position to do a lot of damage != doing damage. if so, then Gastelum would have gotten points against Weidman for the 3 or 4 minutes he stood there with his hand cocked, waiting to throw that big power. but he only threw it once, and he only got rewarded once. should be the same with top position.

 

[VVarhead]

If a round ends on the ground, the next round should continue on the ground.

I'm more in favor of a 10 minute first round like in Pride, so that we prevent people getting saved from the bell by subs in the first where they are most effective.
5 minute rounds heavily favor the strikers. But your proposal is interesting aswell.

Getting saved by the bell is bullshit, anyway. If you're in a sub when the round ends, the round should only end when the sub has either been defended or applied.

 

[Ah Man]

Yellow cards are about disincentivizing stalling by punishing it, but I think it makes sense to remove perverse incentives first. Takedowns and control should not be scoring criteria. If they're effective, you'll use them to do damage and/or threaten with submissions, and the fighter using them effectively will score points with those. Stop rewarding significant points for short, conservative ground and pound. Award more points for posturing and power shots. Reward more points for good submission attempts, so fighters will risk position to go for them.

Right now, you can take a guy down, land nothing of substance, and win the round. Instead, score those rounds 10-10. Make fighters earn the round with meaningful offense, not just shutting their opponent down and doing the bare minimum.

On the other hand, don't just focus on the guy on top. Right now, stand-ups incentivize the guy on the bottom wrapping their opponent up in a tight closed guard and waiting for the referee to save him. Remove stand-ups. Tell the guy on the bottom he's not going to get up unless he takes some risks to do so. Bigger rewards for threatening submission attempts would also encourage the guy on the bottom to try them, potentially opening offensive opportunities for the guy on top. If you can't win rounds by stalling on top, you don't need stand-ups anyway.

 

[acannxr]

If a round ends on the ground, the next round should continue on the ground.

Or one 15-minute round for non-title fights and one 25-minute round for title fights.

 

[Hollywood Jack]

Take away elbows and you take away lay-and-pray; it would force wrestlers to ground-and-pound or go for submissions.

I disagree. You take away a crucial aspect of ground and pound. Guys keep getting better at utilizing elbows. We've seen some epic elbow finishes, both standing and grounded. Why take away more weapons? If anything we should be adding more.

 

[acannxr]

I disagree. You take away a crucial aspect of ground and pound. Guys keep getting better at utilizing elbows. We've seen some epic elbow finishes, both standing and grounded. Why take away more weapons? If anything we should be adding more.

I've seen more fighters use elbows to prevent a stand up so they can continue their lay-and-pray strategy than I've seen finishes with elbows on the ground.

 

[eiyuu]

Knees to the head of grounded opponents

Yup, can be used to help deter bad takedowns and can be used by wrestlers DEMOLISH fighters on the ground . . .

 

[SeattleFightFan]

put another way, everyone likes wrestling when it's used as a means to an end. no one ever complained about Matt Hughes. because he used wrestling to get subs & do damage.

getting takedowns and holddowns as an end goal is the problem. so take away the rewards structure of takedowns and holddowns.