Is the United States of America a Banana Republic?

hiya Viva, avast ye my old friend!

VivaRevolution said:
I will now list the reasons for why I believe the good ol' USA is today clearly a banana republic.
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while i've been away, i've thought about this kind of sentiment. a great deal.

i understand where you're coming from, and i sympathize...but to take a step back, this is what the right said our country for eight years whilst Mr. Obama was at the helm. it sounded ridiculous to me at the time - and still does.

to a degree, i'm with you on your POV...but i wonder how effective this is as a message to those on the other side of the aisle.

if i could summarize the rest, you're saying that "things were bad before, but now they are worse than ever", aye?

also, in terms of media...i've been reading less and less, the last few months. i just read the NYT and listen to NPR. sometimes just to check in on things, i read the National Review. are they all just propaganda and misdirection to you?*

- IGIT

* - i am now invoking a statute of limitations on the "but Judith Miller!" rebuttal.
 
AlexDB9 said:
As a person who grew up in Cuba I wish I could put you in a real banana republic for a year or two so you know how dumb of a thread this is ts. A few months in Palma Soriano (my hometown) will change your outlook in life
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Yea well USA is so evil !! And corrupt and this thread is surprising since TS has an upside American flag as an AV like an idiot.
 
IGIT said:
hiya Viva, avast ye my old friend!



while i've been away, i've thought about this kind of sentiment. a great deal.

i understand where you're coming from, and i sympathize...but to take a step back, this is what the right said our country for eight years whilst Mr. Obama was at the helm. it sounded ridiculous to me at the time - and still does.

to a degree, i'm with you on your POV...but i wonder how effective this is as a message to those on the other side of the aisle.

if i could summarize the rest, you're saying that "things were bad before, but now they are worse than ever", aye?

also, in terms of media...i've been reading less and less, the last few months. i just read the NYT and listen to NPR. sometimes just to check in on things, i read the National Review. are they all just propaganda and misdirection to you?*

- IGIT

* - i am now invoking a statute of limitations on the "but Judith Miller!" rebuttal.
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Let me ask you this.

Why did it take 2 months for the MSM to catch on to the immigrant children story?

I had seen that story coming from non-MSM media months ago.

To speak plainly, the truth is that as long as campaign finance and lobbying laws exist as they do, Russia, Israel, Sheldon Adelson, and George Soros will continue to have more control over our government than the electorate.

I just know that isn't a Democratic Constitutional Republic.
 
no, not even close

Chiquita Banana literally owned whole territories.....Dole Pineapple as well

we have nothing of the sort.
 
I always find these sorts of threads really amusing. When you attempt to equate the levels of corruption and state-controlled information here with what happens in actual authoritarian regimes, the whole thing falls apart really quickly. A friend of mine grew up in Ukraine before the fall of the USSR. He's about a pro-democracy and pro-capitalism as you can be because he knows what life on the other side of the wall was like. It sounds like @AlexDB9 has a similar understanding of what real suffering is like. Those who have traveled outside the country extensively to places that you might call the Third World (resorts in Cancun for Spring Break and that time that you backpacked across Europe after college don't count) can tell you that you have absolutely no idea how good you have it here.

Now, if you want say that we have more corruption than we should and that the media has some issues, then sure. Those are things that we can agree upon and try to solve. But to decry the US as a banana republic is a Chicken Little-style tactic.
 
Fawlty said:
The banana part is really important if you're going to call something a banana republic. The US doesn't have limited exports, we're very diverse. And the exploitation of labor here is simply incomparable to banana republics. It's an insult to workers who experience real third world conditions and have no options.
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True; our labor votes for its own exploitation because teabag, or bootstraps, or welfare queen, or something.
 
If Trump gets away with his nonsense we are on the way.
 
sub_thug said:
I always find these sorts of threads really amusing. When you attempt to equate the levels of corruption and state-controlled information here with what happens in actual authoritarian regimes, the whole thing falls apart really quickly. A friend of mine grew up in Ukraine before the fall of the USSR. He's about a pro-democracy and pro-capitalism as you can be because he knows what life on the other side of the wall was like. It sounds like @AlexDB9 has a similar understanding of what real suffering is like. Those who have traveled outside the country extensively to places that you might call the Third World (resorts in Cancun for Spring Break and that time that you backpacked across Europe after college don't count) can tell you that you have absolutely no idea how good you have it here.

Now, if you want say that we have more corruption than we should and that the media has some issues, then sure. Those are things that we can agree upon and try to solve. But to decry the US as a banana republic is a Chicken Little-style tactic.
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I think non corrupt authoritarian rule, would be exceptionally efficient. The problem is that it is a oxymoron.

Corrupt politics and media, is what leads to 3rd world countries.
 
VivaRevolution said:
I think non corrupt authoritarian rule, would be exceptionally efficient. The problem is that it is a oxymoron.

Corrupt politics and media, is what leads to 3rd world countries.
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No, corruption is how they stay poor. The USSR was the textbook of corruption and controlled media, but they were a superpower for 50 years. What leads to 3rd world countries is a lack of industry or ability to generate money. If they can't do that, then the best governance around won't help them. You can't make something out of nothing, but bad governance can squander an opportunity.
 
AlexDB9 said:
As a person who grew up in Cuba I wish I could put you in a real banana republic for a year or two so you know how dumb of a thread this is ts. A few months in Palma Soriano (my hometown) will change your outlook in life
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End of thread.

The US is not close to being a banana republic.
 
VivaRevolution said:
We always get to this point IGIT.

A single story does not count in my book.

We have media saturation today.

How, and why does media saturation occur, because that is the only thing that generates real discussion in this country today.
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hello again VivaRevolution,

the NYT and NPR had many stories on this topic, Viva. i just posted those two to illustrate the fact that, yes, these stories were covered by at least the NYT and NPR.

in terms of "how and why does media saturation occur"?

that's a little hard for me to answer. one factor that helps certain stories grow legs is there has to be an inherent interest in the topic within folks that becomes aroused when accompanied by a photo or video (the Syrian refugee problem gains empathy when you have a nice photograph of a dead young boy washed up on the beach).

i don't believe, in general, that Americans lose alot of sleep over the hardships faced by those who enter the country illegally. in 2014, folks were probably worried about the rise of ISIS. or following the decimation of the Democrats in congress. or reading about the Ebola outbreak.

NPR and the NYT can report on this sort of stuff all they want, you know? if the public at large really doesn't care too much about it, then its not going to get traction.

- IGIT
 
IGIT said:
hello again VivaRevolution,

the NYT and NPR had many stories on this topic, Viva. i just posted those two to illustrate the fact that, yes, these stories were covered by at least the NYT and NPR.

in terms of "how and why does media saturation occur"?

that's a little hard for me to answer. one factor that helps certain stories grow legs is there has to be an inherent interest in the topic within folks that becomes aroused when accompanied by a photo or video.

i don't believe, in general, that Americans lose alot of sleep over the hardships faced by those who enter the country illegally. in 2014, folks were probably worried about the rise of ISIS. or following the decimation of the Democrats in congress. or reading about the Ebola outbreak.

NPR and the NYT can report on this sort of stuff all they want, you know? if the public at large really doesn't care too much about it, then its not going to get traction.

- IGIT
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I question what comes first, the chicken or the egg.
 
VivaRevolution said:
I question what comes first, the chicken or the egg.
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hi again Viva,

in the case of this particular topic, the story came first via the NYT (which you probably consider the Mainstream Media) and NPR (which you probably also consider the Mainstream Media).

interest came second, and much later.

this is probably due to the reality that President Trump is attempting to deliver on his campaign promise to rigorously repel those who seek to enter the country illegally - and the coupling of his legislative edicts with some pretty provocative language.

in short, he's upsetting many Americans, i think.

- IGIT
 
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VivaRevolution said:
How, and why does media saturation occur, because that is the only thing that generates real discussion in this country today.
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Viva,

here is your answer, as per this particular issue of parents being separated from their children at the border - and the detention centers they're held in;

WASHINGTON — It did not exactly make for riveting video this month when Senator Jeff Merkley, Democrat of Oregon, was turned away from a converted Walmart at the Texas border that is housing hundreds of migrant children who have been taken away from their parents by the Trump administration.

Shirt sleeves rolled up and cellphone in hand, Mr. Merkley spent the better part of half an hour waiting outside the shelter’s doors, talking calmly to the cameras until the police arrived, at which point the shelter’s supervisor emerged and asked him to leave. He politely complied.

But when the social-media savvy senator streamed the encounter on Facebook Live, it promptly went viral, setting in motion a heated debate...
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/06/22/...ackage-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news

as you see, nowadays what you really need is video. this is why i think the next school massacre is really going to make the nation sit up straight and pay attention. as students become more media savvy and prepared, there's going to be some very exciting cinema verite of the slaughter, you know?

- IGIT
 
VivaRevolution said:
Ok, would we agree corruption is the defining characteristic of a banana republic?

So on a corruption scale, of 1-10, let's call Canada a 1, and Mexico a 10.

I say the US lands at about a 7 today. I think we were a 1 in the 1950's. Maybe a 5 by Vietnam. FYI, that means I think it is more corrupt today, then the days of MKultra, and Cointel Pro.
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I'm sorry but you are going to need way more to get me to buy in. Throwing a bunch of unsubstantiated rankings does not make the case that the US is in the top tier of the world's corrupt nations.

For what's it's worth, per the CPI, Canada is less corrupt than the USA, but USA is still a top performer in its index ie relatively low corruption levels.
 
sub_thug said:
Those who have traveled outside the country extensively to places that you might call the Third World (resorts in Cancun for Spring Break and that time that you backpacked across Europe after college don't count) can tell you that you have absolutely no idea how good you have it here.
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There was a thread awhile back about a guy running for Congress in West Virginia who had done 1 or 2 tours in Afghanistan and said the kids in Afghanistan had it better than the kids in his backyard in WV.
 
We now have immigration roadblocks well inside the border in Maine and New Hampshire, sounds kinda banana republic-police state. Just another unintended consequence of Trumps immigration demagoguery, thanks for nothing Rubes!
 
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