Is the Grappling Technique forum becoming less enjoyable because of the hardcore advertising?

I sometimes forget that there are other people on the internet who still deal with ads.
 
The internet is a completely different place with Adblock.
 
Balto said:
The site redesign really cranked up the ads. Before I had no issues. Now it's bad enough that I don't even want to log in.

I'm sure there is a way I could configure things to kill the ads. But I'm getting older now and just don't feel like spending the time to do so.

A lot of it is probably just the getting older part though. Even if the ads stopped I'd probably still not be around as much as I used to be.

I'm a black belt now so it's to the point that people just come up to me every day and ask me the typical thread stuff in person. I'm on the mat about six hours a week or so. Probably about half that time is talking about the same stuff that I used to talk about on here, so I don't bother when I get home anymore. I'd be bored to tears.

These forums have a generational aspect to them. The UG is the oldest, and it has been dead for a long, long time. It's starting to die off here some, but I still check here a lot for updates. Reddit seems to have the most action now because it's a younger generation.

Whatever forum has the most blue/purple belts will have the most action. That's the online posting belt range for sure. That's the point where you have just enough knowledge to know everything there is. Sherdog has a lot of black belts now so it makes sense it is more subdued.

Ten years ago the UG was awesome. But all those guys were blue/purple belts back then mostly. It sort of makes sense when you look at the generational cycle of things.
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I would submit that brown/black belts not wanting to really debate technique with each other or ask questions is one of the reasons online discourse tends to be so low level. Any time i ask a question here, everyone automatically assumes that I'm a white belt with no clue what I'm doing. Because how could a brown belt not know the answer to that question? Thing is, I generally do know an answer, but I'm looking for others. I don't think a lot of upper belts can handle that though, and either their ego prevents them from asking, or it tells them the answer they already have is always going to be the best, or that they already know all the answers.

On the debate side, telling a white belt they're wrong, even as another white belt, is borderline meaningless: they're a white belt, of course they're wrong. On the opposite end of the spectrum, tell a black belt they're wrong (and let's face it, occasionally they are, and sometimes they even make YT videos of it) and you've suddenly caused WWIII. Not only are you questioning something they've put countless hours into, there is a significant chance BJJ is their livelihood, or at least part of it. You're potentially criticizing the way somebody puts bread on the table, and people can get their feelings hurt pretty significantly, so everyone shies away from doing it.

I just wish it didn't have to be this way.
 
Its less enjoyable because there's no real content. It's either some meathead asking about his street fight fantasy, some e-sensei (no offense) hawking their latest garbage video, a style vs style pissing contest, or some excited teenage white belt wanting to have a philosophical discussion about some obscure eddie bravo move chain.

I get on here for the occasional pro tutorial, gambledub threads, competition analysis, the handful of brown/black belts talking technique, Holt making fun of people, GoForkYourselfs sumo thread, and to make dick and fart jokes, because I am a walking dick and fart joke. Also to bitch about Judo.
 
fanboysareevil said:
I would submit that brown/black belts not wanting to really debate technique with each other or ask questions is one of the reasons online discourse tends to be so low level. Any time i ask a question here, everyone automatically assumes that I'm a white belt with no clue what I'm doing. Because how could a brown belt not know the answer to that question? Thing is, I generally do know an answer, but I'm looking for others. I don't think a lot of upper belts can handle that though, and either their ego prevents them from asking, or it tells them the answer they already have is always going to be the best, or that they already know all the answers.

On the debate side, telling a white belt they're wrong, even as another white belt, is borderline meaningless: they're a white belt, of course they're wrong. On the opposite end of the spectrum, tell a black belt they're wrong (and let's face it, occasionally they are, and sometimes they even make YT videos of it) and you've suddenly caused WWIII. Not only are you questioning something they've put countless hours into, there is a significant chance BJJ is their livelihood, or at least part of it. You're potentially criticizing the way somebody puts bread on the table, and people can get their feelings hurt pretty significantly, so everyone shies away from doing it.

I just wish it didn't have to be this way.
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The main reason I am not that interested in that much technical discourse anymore is because eventually you get to a point where you realize that technique is not that important anymore. I think I am now at that point.

This sounds like heresy, but I think it is very true. Beyond a certain point, you just won't get any better looking for pure technical answers to things. As you noted, there are lots of different "right ways" to do things. Knowing ten different right ways to do something technically certainly won't make you ten times better. It becomes a futile chase after a while.

Even at lower belts, I've noticed that consistently the best competitors rarely spend much time debating technical points with each other. I mean there is usually an exchange of ideas, but they do not debate the "optimal" way nearly as much as many others. And, strangely enough, these guys usually crush the many others in competition. At this point, I do not think that is merely a coincidence.

I believe HOW you train is much more important than WHAT you train. And how you train is fairly well known and consistent across all successful guys. The biggest block is that many people simply do not wish to train this way because it is hard. That's fine, but you can't substitute encyclopedic technical knowledge for it.

I competed for the first time in over a year recently. It was a local tournament, so I had to take a match with an opponent about 50 lbs heavier to get any matches at all. He was a brown belt, and I was a black belt.

I ended up winning in pretty dominant fashion. Most people chalked this up to superior technique given the significant size difference. But I was in the match, and we were about even technically. Just like almost every other opponent I have faced since purple belt. Technically, it's close enough to not really matter. My first scoring move was the basic flower sweep from closed guard. I learned that from anaconda on this forum back when I was a blue belt, and I haven't changed it much since.

What I think really made the difference was my attitude, training philosophy, mental preparation, gameplan, etc. For example, I warmed up 30-45 minutes before the match. I rolled with training partners, drilled my initial entry for my gameplan, and jogged around. My opponent spent this time watching other matches with his arms folded. I had an edge here.

There were a lot of other non-technical edges too, but there isn't much point in going over each one of them. I think the point is that I won based primarily on stuff that isn't going to show up on a YouTube video or an MBO subscription or an online forum discussion.

So the main reason I'm personally less inclined to wade into technique debates is not because I think I know everything there is. Even more so than when I was a blue belt, I know very well now that I do not. I also know that there is no hope that I ever will.

Technique is the easy route that everyone takes. But it has diminishing returns for me at this point. I get much more mileage out of doing the "hard" things in training that others are lazy about. That makes the difference for me.
 
Sorry if I misinterpreted what you were saying. I'm just explaining why I'm not personally that interested in getting into technique debates anymore. I don't think it pays off as much as other stuff. Hence I don't do it.

I can't speak for everyone else, but most of the other black belts I came up with feel the same way. I think there's a good chance that's why you won't see many of them getting into technique debates either. To a large extent, most have moved on.
 
Balto said:
The main reason I am not that interested in that much technical discourse anymore is because eventually you get to a point where you realize that technique is not that important anymore. I think I am now at that point.

This sounds like heresy, but I think it is very true. Beyond a certain point, you just won't get any better looking for pure technical answers to things. As you noted, there are lots of different "right ways" to do things. Knowing ten different right ways to do something technically certainly won't make you ten times better. It becomes a futile chase after a while.

Even at lower belts, I've noticed that consistently the best competitors rarely spend much time debating technical points with each other. I mean there is usually an exchange of ideas, but they do not debate the "optimal" way nearly as much as many others. And, strangely enough, these guys usually crush the many others in competition. At this point, I do not think that is merely a coincidence.

I believe HOW you train is much more important than WHAT you train. And how you train is fairly well known and consistent across all successful guys. The biggest block is that many people simply do not wish to train this way because it is hard. That's fine, but you can't substitute encyclopedic technical knowledge for it.

I competed for the first time in over a year recently. It was a local tournament, so I had to take a match with an opponent about 50 lbs heavier to get any matches at all. He was a brown belt, and I was a black belt.

I ended up winning in pretty dominant fashion. Most people chalked this up to superior technique given the significant size difference. But I was in the match, and we were about even technically. Just like almost every other opponent I have faced since purple belt. Technically, it's close enough to not really matter. My first scoring move was the basic flower sweep from closed guard. I learned that from anaconda on this forum back when I was a blue belt, and I haven't changed it much since.

What I think really made the difference was my attitude, training philosophy, mental preparation, gameplan, etc. For example, I warmed up 30-45 minutes before the match. I rolled with training partners, drilled my initial entry for my gameplan, and jogged around. My opponent spent this time watching other matches with his arms folded. I had an edge here.

There were a lot of other non-technical edges too, but there isn't much point in going over each one of them. I think the point is that I won based primarily on stuff that isn't going to show up on a YouTube video or an MBO subscription or an online forum discussion.

So the main reason I'm personally less inclined to wade into technique debates is not because I think I know everything there is. Even more so than when I was a blue belt, I know very well now that I do not. I also know that there is no hope that I ever will.

Technique is the easy route that everyone takes. But it has diminishing returns for me at this point. I get much more mileage out of doing the "hard" things in training that others are lazy about. That makes the difference for me.
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Your wrong. ;)
 
Balto said:
Sorry if I misinterpreted what you were saying. I'm just explaining why I'm not personally that interested in getting into technique debates anymore. I don't think it pays off as much as other stuff. Hence I don't do it.

I can't speak for everyone else, but most of the other black belts I came up with feel the same way. I think there's a good chance that's why you won't see many of them getting into technique debates either. To a large extent, most have moved on.
Click to expand...

My response simply meant that refining details and training hard are in no way mutually exclusive. If this is a "I work a full time job and then teach for 4 hours every night and I don't have the time" type situation, then we all get why you might not be keen on spending a ton of time typing out detailed nuances of tech on Sherdog. But I think it's pretty ludicrous to believe that top level black belts don't have better technique than average ones. Keep in mind by "better" I don't necessarily mean "cutting edge" or "laboriously complex", just without any holes. You mentioned MBO. I recently did a trial there, and I can say without a doubt Rafa and Gui's techniques and explanations are much, much cleaner than some of the brown belts teaching there. Similarly, get 10 videos of random black belts teaching on YT and I bet at least one includes sketchy details and/or evidence that they really haven't used the technique much. Compare that with 10 videos of Saulo teaching and the difference will be apparent. I'm probably not communicating this perfectly, but top level guys, and even most non-top level guys when they teach their A game, tend to have a level of elegance and logical consistency to their techniques and technique choices that others aren't as consistent with. There are gaps and question marks in a lot of the material online, but almost never in the games of top competitors.
 
I get what you are saying. And I agree that technique can be refined. I just think it's a lot smaller part of the overall game than most people think at first.

If it helps give any clarity, I'm an ATOS black belt in the sense that my teacher is a major ATOS affiliate. I've trained with most of the top guys there (although not Mendes Bros yet). So my teacher and all of us are relatively keyed in to how they really do things up there with their competitors.

We didn't use online videos to get better, nor were we ever encouraged to do so. The actual technique part demonstrated in class was pretty small. In fact, my teacher used to say all the time "I'm not here to teach technique."

It was mostly conceptual stuff and focusing on HOW to train. And this is coming from the dude that coaches Andre at ADCC, so he's not exactly some random guy who just bought an ATOS patch to plaster on his school. He is really involved with the competition team there.

So those experiences have definitely influenced my views on the role of pure technique in becoming good. I also know a lot of other black belts that think the same as me, although maybe that's just because it's no surprise that the guys I trained with have similar views since we all have the same teachers.
 
Like for example, using MBO again:

Most people who subscribe there will never have the success of the AOJ students in the classes. Why?

I've seen it thrown around places that the Mendes Bros actually turn off the camera and teach secret details so that others can't beat them. I have never heard anyone in ATOS actually say that. Maybe it's a joke and that's it. I'm pretty confident they are putting the game out there without any tricks.

What people within ATOS actually seem to believe is that it's all the other things they do in training in addition to the technical details that make up the real success. It's not a secret formula. Rather, it's a publicly known, easily accessible formula. But the AOJ students are the ones who drill the hell out of it to get the superior results. Drilling the hell out of things is one of those non-technical things that I think counts for a lot more at higher level.

So in short:
Yes, I agree that some black belts have sharper techniques than others. But I also think that this accounts for only a minor part of the actual performance gap on the mat in reality.
 
Balto said:
Like for example, using MBO again:

Most people who subscribe there will never have the success of the AOJ students in the classes. Why?

I've seen it thrown around places that the Mendes Bros actually turn off the camera and teach secret details so that others can't beat them. I have never heard anyone in ATOS actually say that. Maybe it's a joke and that's it. I'm pretty confident they are putting the game out there without any tricks.

What people within ATOS actually seem to believe is that it's all the other things they do in training in addition to the technical details that make up the real success. It's not a secret formula. Rather, it's a publicly known, easily accessible formula. But the AOJ students are the ones who drill the hell out of it to get the superior results. Drilling the hell out of things is one of those non-technical things that I think counts for a lot more at higher level.

So in short:
Yes, I agree that some black belts have sharper techniques than others. But I also think that this accounts for only a minor part of the actual performance gap on the mat in reality.
Click to expand...

while I agree with you, im not sure 100%.

Technique matters, but the level you are at will be due how you train.

Now, drilling 1000 a bad technique will not ever become good techinque, you will be proeficient at applying that technique in an inefficient way, or in a wrong way, you will get much better results by drilling 200 times the technique done in the right way.
 
BJJ_Rage said:
while I agree with you, im not sure 100%.

Technique matters, but the level you are at will be due how you train.

Now, drilling 1000 a bad technique will not ever become good techinque, you will be proeficient at applying that technique in an inefficient way, or in a wrong way, you will get much better results by drilling 200 times the technique done in the right way.
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Oh I agree with that totally.

My thinking is more this:
One ten minute burst of technical instruction will give you ten weeks worth of stuff to drill

So although getting good technique is important, it's a small percentage of my training time. Debating technical nuances, watching YouTube videos, etc. -- that's <5% of my overall training.

Therefore it kind of makes sense that I'm not around F12 as much as I used to be before I realized this. I spend a lot more time doing technique than talking about it.
 
Hey Balto, how long have you been a black belt, and how long were you a brown belt before that?
 
fanboysareevil said:
Hey Balto, how long have you been a black belt, and how long were you a brown belt before that?
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I've been a black belt about a year now. I was a brown belt about two years. I was a purple about three, a blue for four, and a white for two. How many is that total because I am losing track now lol.

By the way bro, thanks for the good discussion. I really mean that. This kind of stuff I do like to talk about (obviously).

I've probably rolled with 100 black belts or so in my time. I really can't think of even a single guy who got to that level that I would consider to have truly deficient technique. I mean some guys were sharper than others, but not enough that I think it really made a huge difference.

There were some massive differences in applied skill though. Like the best guys I ever rolled with would beat the worst guys every single time and then some even on their worst days. I don't think technique accounted for even the majority of that difference. I think the biggest things were commitment to hard training/drilling of basics over and over again, gritty attitude when rolling and never conceding a thing, etc.
 
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