Is the armdrag useless as a takedown in mma/self-defense?

[Gandhi]

This is an arm drag from two guys who are completely disengaged upper body, from a reach. The poster claimed dragging from a standing clinch was a good option. I cannot see any way that is even possible, and I have wrestled my entire life

Awsome

 

[Junior Skilo]

I prefer teaching the back hand fmdrag like retherford does in the video to the normal back hand and pressure go behind usually taught first. It’s easier for them to fall into the shot and more secure and less “feel” dependent

Funnily enough, we were drilling go behinds of sprawls in yesterdays wrestling class... Having watched a hell of a lot Zain matches, his variation came to mind... So i sneaked in a couple reps when the coach was not watching .. The video pointed out a few details I was missing, definitely one for the arsenal

 

[jack36767]

Funnily enough, we were drilling go behinds of sprawls in yesterdays wrestling class... Having watched a hell of a lot Zain matches, his variation came to mind... So i sneaked in a couple reps when the coach was not watching .. The video pointed out a few details I was missing, definitely one for the arsenal

I have very.. strong opinions on the way I’ve seen shot defense taught in most youth wrestling, a good chunk of middle and high school and Bjj classes.

 

[ArtemV]

Imo, it is pretty useless. You're not gonna get any Marcelo arm drag/foot sweep to single leg against any good wrestlers, as a good wrestler would just get an overhook and drive you down and kill all momentum.

However, from an over under clinch in mma, a Sadulaev type arm drag seems perfect to get the back.

 

[Junior Skilo]

I have very.. strong opinions on the way I’ve seen shot defense taught in most youth wrestling, a good chunk of middle and high school and Bjj classes.

I know to little to even dare scrutinise the technique we were being taught... our coach is a freestyle wrestler raised in the Soviet style... i just thought the arm drag Zain uses would feel more secure... & with my speed maybe a slightly higher percentage move for the go behind

 

[jack36767]

I know to little to even dare scrutinise the technique we were being taught... our coach is a freestyle wrestler raised in the Soviet style... i just thought the arm drag Zain uses would feel more secure... & with my speed maybe a slightly higher percentage move for the go behind

I was honestly commenting more in general because of something I saw recently. Ask him his opinion next time

 

[Overtures]

Dude the arm drag is one of the most effective things in a street fight.

 

[Overtures]

Honestly there have been a lot of times when people at work start horsing around and acting tough with me and I always tell them I used to train and there like whatever man your a pussy.


So I hit em with an arm drag to RNC set up and they are always like oh damn never mind.

 

[nefti]

Considering the sheer amount of high level wrestlers in mma don't use the arm drag, I think it's safe to say that it is a non mma friendly takedown.

 

[Junior Skilo]

I was honestly commenting more in general because of something I saw recently. Ask him his opinion next time

Gotcha... Will do

 

[Leify]

The easiest "street" arm drag set up is when people do the whole chest push posturing to fight bullshit. Angle your torso and they practically arm drag themselves.

 

[jack36767]

Gotcha... Will do

Yeah meant no disrespect to your coach. I’ve seen seen a lot of nonsense

 

[Daniel Fox]

I have never been good at arm drags against decent wrestlers, however once a year we have defensive tactics when your partner tries to take your fake gun, it is so easy to arm drag an untrained person.

 

[Balto]

is there a video example of this, or something similar?

This was like twelve years ago bro so I'm not even sure exactly what I had in mind lol.

Sounds like I'm just describing the basic clinch strategy where you slip the punch to the outside, drag the arm across, and clinch with a bear hug trapping that arm. That's pretty much the arm drag motion to me.

Arm drags are super effective for self defense because it's easy to duck or slip a wild punch and clinch this way. Then the RNC is right there. It's even easier when you consider that a lot of people escalate by shoving or just putting their hands out in front of your face before even throwing a punch. That's just begging for an armdrag to the clinch and RNC.

Modern MMA is probably where you'll see the least of it now because guys are so much more skilled nowadays. Keep in mind that original answer was from 2005. Back then the level of MMA was way lower (especially locally) so the BJJ guys would win a lot of fights just doing basic stuff like that. The approach back then was that if we could clinch and get to the back, the fight was over right there. And back then it almost always was.

Obviously things are on a different level now so I wouldn't expect our old 2005 BJJ cagefighting moves to get that far anymore. But I doubt random dudes swinging on you have evolved nearly as much so they're probably still good for that purpose.

 

[nefti]

If the only example we can think of is 1 match in the almost 25 years of mma then I think that explains it all.

 

[rmongler]

I have very.. strong opinions on the way I’ve seen shot defense taught in most youth wrestling, a good chunk of middle and high school and Bjj classes.

Doesn't everyone have strong opinions on how to anything the best way (for better or worse).

Unless you mean coaches in your area specifically tend to teach defending the legs in a certain way (that you think is particularly unhelpful)?

 

[SidRon]

What about hitting the arm drag from over/under pummeling? Over/Under is a very common MMA position and there are lots of videos on you tube showing the arm drag from over /under. Just a thought. Would be interested in what the wrestlers here think.

 

[jack36767]

Doesn't everyone have strong opinions on how to anything the best way (for better or worse).

Unless you mean coaches in your area specifically tend to teach defending the legs in a certain way (that you think is particularly unhelpful)?

Not so much where I am now, I moved back to one of the best states for wrestling where I grew up. More referring to Tennessee and youth programs run by dads who quit in high school but then try to live through their sons so they don’t feel like a pussy. But it’s whatever, all I can do is help the kids I can help and not worry about it

 

[Kenny from MD]

Dragging to a sweep single was the first takedown set up that I ever got the hang of and has worked really well for me. I'm not however a fantastic wrestler or an authority by any means.

That being said, every single time, and I can count them, that I've attempted to drag in MMA I've gotten punched square in the face.

 

[rmongler]

Arm drags are most common in 'pocket' range while hand fighting, which also happens to be face punching range, so you won't really see the same jockeying for grips in mma that you see in grappling, which includes arm drags. Same reason you don't really see 'wing chun' style hand trapping either (you'll occasionally see boxing style hand trapping). 'Infighting' in mma basically equilibriates into either, not infighting, or deep clinches (the cage makes an exception since it more or less acts as a 'third limb' in providing control, opening up the use of different techniques; kinda like ground fighting, but vertical).

If all parties involved are on guard and battle already joined arm drags have slim applicability. There is however, one application very suitable for arm drags outside of both the ring and the mat. That is, as a sneak attack.

Eight times out of ten the sucker punch wins the fight; immediate preemptive escalation to percussive persuasion as a first resort however, is something of an asymptotic proposition, that can carry some thorny logistical, psychological, and legal issues. A surprise arm drag to a go behind however, provides a pathway for a workman, officer, or john q. public, to put hands on someone and proactively defuse possible issues, without having to resort to a nuclear option.

You can apply the same principle with other methods as well:



A bicep tie normally is one of the least advantageous entanglements in grappling, in terms of both offensive and defensive options (not the least of which being you basically give the other guy an elbow tie); it is however something you can go 'directly' to, like the arm drag, not requiring the other person to be engaging with you at the same time, and against someone untrained or barely trained, the formal structure is less important than the substantial balancing.

Inside ties are also 'smothering'-



-in the sense that if the other guy wants to punch you or pull something out of his pocket he'll have to strip it first, and that pushback is what gives you the opening to go behind, where you want to be to control the individual with a full nelson or put him down with a mat return.

In many ways, you could see it as simply an extension of the 'fence' concept, of keeping the other person out of your personal space with arm extension and pushing, keeping them between you and them.