Is the "A level Athlete" fantasy finally dead now?

[cevo]

We've had to put up with claims that an "A-level Athlete" would dominate MMA with anything from a couple of years to just a few months training. Well Ngannou fit in almost totally with this and had over 5 years training yet we clearly saw the technical weaknesses as well as the cardio problems of carrying that amount of muscle.

Who am I kidding though, this will be totally forgotten in a few weeks and the hype will be back for someone else won't it?

Francis has the speed and strength obviously, but with that cardio his athleticism is like D-level overall.

 

[cevo]

Anybody can work on their conditioning and improve it. What can't be improved is athleticism. That is something you are born with.

You need good genetics for endurance too. That's why some fighters never develop great cardio.

Also, endurance is one of the most important parts of "athleticism" in MMA.

 

[560ti]

I never understood the athlete scale. Demian Maia runs a sub 5 minute mile, deadlifts over 500lbs, has ungodly flexiblity, and trains a high contact sports 30 hours a week and yet he's considered a D level athlete ?

He's literally in the top hundredth of a percentile for strength, cardio, flexibility, reflexes, and toughness and yet people act like he's some dad who works out at the local YMCA.......

 

[djason1988]

In America, if you're not an NBA or NFL player, you're apparently not an A-level athlete. Absolutely retarded.

Being a high level athlete has far less to do with strength and size than it does with speed, coordination, reflexes, flexibility, and endurance. Sure, there are a handful of genetically blessed people that have size to go with that, but height and bench press have very little to do with your ability inside a specific weight class.

 

[Takamine86]

You need good genetics for endurance too. That's why some fighters never develop great cardio.

Also, endurance is one of the most important parts of "athleticism" in MMA.

Some fighters never develop conditioning because they don't diet correctly, fight efficiently, or train hard enough on their conditioning. It isn't because they were born with bad endurance. That is silly. It is a known fact that conditioning is something anybody can improve.

 

[djason1988]

Brock actually won with just a few years training. I think the idea that an A level athlete would dominate after a few years is untrue, but a A level athlete with serious training in today's UFC would be unbeatable. Ngannou made it to a title fight with no martial arts background.

"A few years of training" my ass. He was a D-1 college wrestler with some ridiculous record, 301-2 or some shit. Multiple NCAA titles to his name.

 

[cevo]

Some fighters never develop conditioning because they don't diet correctly, fight efficiently, or train hard enough on their conditioning. It isn't because they were born with bad endurance. That is silly. It is a known fact that conditioning is something anybody can improve.

Obviously everyone can improve their cardio, but not everybody can have great cardio. Also Ngannou is way too muscular and heavy anyway. If you're 265 lbs with abs you're not going to be able to push hard for 25 minutes regardless of how much you train. That's why Stipe, Werdum, Cain, and even Overeem now are lighter.

Speed is harder to improve yes, but still both have a lot to do with genetics.

 

[popwarnermma]

"A few years of training" my ass. He was a D-1 college wrestler with some ridiculous record, 301-2 or some shit. Multiple NCAA titles to his name.

106-5, One NCAA title. Still ridiculous.

 

[Takamine86]

Obviously everyone can improve their cardio, but not everybody can have great cardio. Also Ngannou is way too muscular and heavy anyway. If you're 265 lbs with abs you're not going to be able to push hard for 25 minutes regardless of how much you train. That's why Stipe, Werdum, Cain, and even Overeem now are lighter.

Speed is harder to improve yes, but still both have a lot to do with genetics.

I can't think of any MMA fighters who were born with great cardio. The ones that do come to mind work very hard and diet for their great conditioning. For example, the Diaz Bros have great cardio. Diaz Bros who obviously worked for their great cardio by going vegan and doing triathlete training. Cain wrestled, which is a grind that would improve any athletes conditioning. Let me ask you, who in MMA has great cardio from a genetic standpoint, as in they were born with it. I've never heard of endurance being something you are born with.

 

[OGL]

They beat a couple of washed up old guys in a division where one strike can end the fight, after many years of mma training you muppet.

But ya, keep telling yourself this is A level athleticism.

Man, you have no idea how impressive an athlete Vince Wilfork is (your pic) . A >350lb man doing what he (and other NFL lineman) do is pretty outrageous. Their speed and agility for their size/shape is outrageous. If running marathons = A-level, then no, that's not their bag. But the combination of size, speed, explosiveness, agility, body control, AND intelligence required to be a successful NFL lineman is off the charts. Also, given the physics of their job, which advantages huge/low center of gravity, many (most?) of them intentionally bulk up well above their natural weight. Their life in high school and college is basically just football, gym, and force-feeding. When they retire, they often lose a lot of weight.

 

[OGL]

most basketball players i know only play basketball BECAUSE they're tall... not because their good at....

if they're 6'7" and higher they don't even have to be good to play D1

Oh my god. Please stop. Plenty of valid arguments can be made on all sides of the pointless "A-level athlete" debate... BUT, you're statement that anyone 6'7" can play top level basketball is patently absurd. In fact, most humans that tall are TERRIBLE athletes that can barely get out of an armchair (physics are hard at that height) let alone have exception lateral quickness, speed, agility, vertical leap, hand-eye coordination, and the endurance to essentially run wind-sprints while doing all of that. Also, there is the whole basketball SKILLS requirement, but you obviously don't know anything about basketball, so I'll save it.

 

[Treeloy]

Being an A Athlete doesn't mean you will be successful. It's def an edge, but as we've seen it's not enough. Look what happened to Big Baby when he came to the UFC

 

[OGL]

you're obviously biased if you think tall freaks that can block a shot or rebound are A level athletes...lmao basketball is for s

Hahaha, ironic you say "basketball is for s" while sporting the handle "BALLERstatus..." What the fuck do you think the origin of "baller" is? Christ.

 

[BALLERSTATUSMCG]

Oh my god. Please stop. Plenty of valid arguments can be made on all sides of the pointless "A-level athlete" debate... BUT, you're statement that anyone 6'7" can play top level basketball is patently absurd. In fact, most humans that tall are TERRIBLE athletes that can barely get out of an armchair (physics are hard at that height) let alone have exception lateral quickness, speed, agility, vertical leap, hand-eye coordination, and the endurance to essentially run wind-sprints while doing all of that. Also, there is the whole basketball SKILLS requirement, but you obviously don't know anything about basketball, so I'll save it.

Sorry you're at least 6'7, sucked at basketball, and couldn't make it D1....fail

 

[BALLERSTATUSMCG]

Hahaha, ironic you say "basketball is for s" while sporting the handle "BALLERstatus..." What the fuck do you think the origin of "baller" is? Christ.

A lot of sports have balls

 

[OGL]

A lot of sports have balls

Indeed they do. That said, the term most certainly didn't come out of the hood where they were playing soccer!

 

[RJK]

MMA is already getting the abolsute cream of the crop in the world with Conor McGregor

What's with all the paid shills, trying to casually insert a particular Irish man into the discussion?

 

[chaos_36]

The NFL is only one of the most-watched sporting leagues on the planet, along with EPL soccer and IPL cricket. No big deal.

NBA is a bigger, better more globally recognized sports league and soccer is the most globally watched. NFL is pretty much a niche American market. Who else in the world plays it? Canada has like the bush league version of it. Any European, African or Asian countries play it? Who many people play a sport is a pretty good indication of how popular it is.

 

[Whiterabbit]

You need to check out a player called Jonah Lomu (deceased now) He was 6'5 and 265lbs and could do the 100 metres in damn near Olympic sprinter time, 10.4 seconds iirc. He would have made an excellent NFL player had he grasped the rules properly and not been so attached to his country, plus he was making millions by being the most famous Rugby player on earth. The helmets, padding etc is why we kind of look at the sport in a weird way, sure you can do way bigger hits but you're also taking far less direct impact.

Taking more direct impact in football, rugby tackling is far more safe than football tackling. That is why they are transitioning to it. It isnt as physical or dangerous

 

[Whiterabbit]

Tell me this guy couldn't hack it in the NFL if he was still alive.

He runs straight up, hed certainly get fucked up eventually. But everyone does in football