Is striking secondary to grappling?

[MadSquabbles500]

Grappling is first in defense or defensive strategy, while striking is first in offense, or an aggressive attacking strategy.

 

[MadSquabbles500]

My thoughts exactly. I'm not saying that I've seen every street fight but I've seen enough to know how they go and they normally don't go to the ground. Its usually just two guys throwing haymakers or grabbing the others shirt and punching with the other. Anytime it does go to the ground however its because they either A) fall to the ground because they don't know proper footwork and balance or B) fall to the ground from exhaustion. Never have I seen anyone go for a double leg takedown and try to put the other in an armbar or something.

seems like a hockey fight to me.

 

[1 2 3]

MightySparrow- first boxing, then judo, then muay Thai
Disciplus-WHICH submissions matter
Azam- it's the artist not the art

All good points. (Although I would disagree about the armbar being a good self-defense submissions.)

I wouldn't think about it as either striking or grappling being superior. That's like saying dribbling is more important than passing--you're bad at it if you lack either one of those things.

It's more like there's a set of things that spans both, and you need AT LEAST those tools to competently participate. A jab, a cross, a guard, some sense of evasion or head movement, basic trips and throws, a double leg, a sprawl, a move to the back or to mount, a way to avoid getting your back taken or mounted, a couple of basic chokes and choke defenses....etc.

 

[mikiemike87]

Firas Zahabi mentioned in one of his videos he wouldn't let his guys fight if they weren't at least a blue belt in bjj and have been wrestling with them for a couple of years. Not sure if one is secondary to the other, but without confidence in the ground, he reasons most of the striking is too tentative to be useful. He also mentions that longtime grapplers like Demain Maia who has been training striking for years still looks rigid and clunky because of the " locked up" nature of grappling. Whereas like in muay thai, we're constantly being told to relax. I think the majority of Top 15 in any weight class will be littered with wrestling and grappling base, but I believe the elite of the elite will more often be guys who possess more fluidity on the stand up. This transcends martial arts bases, and more on the individuals ability to train across the entire spectrum.

 

[MaxMMA]

Unless a fight ends with one or two shots, an overwhelming majority of limited/no rules confrontations are decided by who is the supieror grappler. That's just cold hard facts.

street fights don't have much grappling? The fuck y'all been watching? A few punches thrown ---> tie up/tangle up ----> pushing, shoving, clothes grabbing.

I mean Jesus, every time tie up in a boxing match=grappling.

I don't care how badass a striker you are, if you don't know jitz/rasslin you run the risk of being steamrolled by any untrained brute with even a hint of natural gameness.

 

[Ilk]

Not true at all. You have a basic take down defence from training basic footwork. You would know the range of a fight and your range. You would know how to step to the sides. Especially if you have created a habit of backing sideways. In addition, you would have learned some precision and will most likely hit your opponent in an exchange and he would most likely missed. After such an exchange the opponent will either give up, or be double thinking when getting back to a hit range. I have some experience with street fighting. I have no clue why, but people have been testing me a lot when they learn I am training.

First fight - a bar brawl vs 3 people. I am trying to calm down few guys which are young skinny teens and one of them sucker punches me from behind and drops me. Not a heavy hit but he hits me on the side of the chin and I fall down. Adrenaline rushes, but I hear from the rest of the group shouting at the sucker puncher - Why did you hit him?. I stand up teep him at the chest and he is so drunk that falls and hits his head and stays down. Then the 2nd guy I roundhouse at the ribs, he drops too. I shout the other 2 something like ~ You want some? They look scared so I attack, 1-2-3-2, clinch, knee one of them and the other one is just watching. This is how it ended. They walked away and even apologised when they security came. The security is an assistant coach of mine.

2nd fight - against a friend in a soccer game. I am getting mad because we are losing and I am shouting at one of my forwards because he is not moving to get the ball, nor pressing. He is reacting and I get mad again. I rush him and do a wild over hand I was with my goal keeping gloves on so I was not afraid to swing. It lands on his head. Jab, hook. He turns his back scared so I leave him alone.

3rd fight - a colleague. Basically I tried to calm him down and take him down. He defended and kneed me. I got mad and just left hooked him with a slap that almost dropped him. He then chased me while i was walking back and trying to calm him down, but he was too afraid to engage, he was just swearing and cursing to get his anger off, but he was afraid to exchange. I would have dropped him if he did and he knew it.

So nope I am not getting dropped by an untrained brute unless he is way stronger than me (I am about 90kg) and can take a punch or has lots of experience in street fighting which means he is probably training something or has been training something.

 

[Hotora86]

No.
Try defending yourself like this with grappling:



In a ONE on ONE fight grappling is better, sure.
But for SELF DEFENSE keeping your distance and striking is much safer.

 

[spacetime]

 

[spacetime]

It's the rock paper scissor effect. All else equal: Kickboxing/Muay Thai beats BJJ, BJJ beats Wrestling,Wrestling beats Kickboxing/Muay Thai.

 

[spacetime]

The reason for that is very simple: Bjj guys have weak taekdowns, and will get smashed in a clinch ( if they aren't fucked up before that even). Wrestlers are specialized in takedowns and will take the striker down EASILY and ground and pound him. BJJ guys will also be taken down by wrestlers but however choke them out.

 

[bigbangspiritbomb]

JKDGuy, every fight I've seen go to the ground goes to the ground from damage. I've seen so many bar and club fights (my teacher and a bunch of his students are bouncers, and have always been) and no one ever ends up on the ground without being hit. When randoms in the clubs fight, it is always standing. When someone gets sucker punched, they get sucker punched, not sucker double legged.

It just never seems to happen.

There was one instance of a guy working at the club who snuck up on someone being thrown out and RNC'd him. That's 100% of the grappling that happened.

Go on youtube and do a head count of all the fight videos you can watch, and there are play lists. How many go to the ground out of them, and how many of those went to the ground from damage.

Which is why BJJ in the street isn't necessarily ideal. Like, if I try to arm bar you and some cuck clobbers me with a skull boot, I wont look the same.

I think a good mma gym that incorporates all the above is great.

 

[spacetime]

Which is why BJJ in the street isn't necessarily ideal. Like, if I try to arm bar you and some cuck clobbers me with a skull boot, I wont look the same.

I think a good mma gym that incorporates all the above is great.

Let's be real, a striker is also fucked against a gang of fairly confident people. Just attack on the front and have someone beyond his peripheral behind him, smack him unconciouss and then they can do whatever they want to him.

 

[n.diazismylife1999]

Unless a fight ends with one or two shots, an overwhelming majority of limited/no rules confrontations are decided by who is the supieror grappler. That's just cold hard facts.

Nice "cold hard facts" you've got there, buddy. I didn't know that was the synonym for "my opinion is..."

 

[bigbangspiritbomb]

Let's be real, a striker is also fucked against a gang of fairly confident people. Just attack on the front and have someone beyond his peripheral behind him, smack him unconciouss and then they can do whatever they want to him.

Sounds like a man that spends too much time on the comp.

Not doing it right bro.

 

[Davem10]

I feel it depends on your size a lot too

If you're like 220 pounds plus and a big dude, grappling will be excellent for you

If you're like 140 pounds then grappling won't be so great as many humans are naturally much bigger and stronger so you trying to grab them isn't too smart. Best to learn to be a fast powerful striker if you're a smaller dude

 

[MaxMMA]

Nice "cold hard facts" you've got there, buddy. I didn't know that was the synonym for "my opinion is..."

How many limited/no rules fights have you been in? It's a natural reaction, get your bell rung, grab and hold on for dear life.

How many times during your average boxing match does the ref have to separate the two fighters from the clinch? Quite a few.

You can keep denying reality all you want, but unless you sleep someone in the opening moments of a fight, it's almost a certainty that the fight will find its way into the clinch.

 

[n.diazismylife1999]

How many limited/no rules fights have you been in? It's a natural reaction, get your bell rung, grab and hold on for dear life.

How many times during your average boxing match does the ref have to separate the two fighters from the clinch? Quite a few.

You can keep denying reality all you want, but unless you sleep someone in the opening moments of a fight, it's almost a certainty that the fight will find its way into the clinch.

Over 500, and my record is 500-0.

Boxers clinch because it's allowed within the rules and it's beneficial. Referencing boxing proves you don't know what you're talking about. Specific tactics that have developed because of the ruleset prove absolutely nothing about real fighting.

 

[MaxMMA]

Over 500, and my record is 500-0.

Boxers clinch because it's allowed within the rules and it's beneficial. Referencing boxing proves you don't know what you're talking about. Specific tactics that have developed because of the ruleset prove absolutely nothing about real fighting.

Right, grappling is even beneficial under a rule set that is supposed prohibit grappling. Thanks for proving my point moron.

 

[guard_passer]

once you learn TDD, striking rules, especially boxing. a boxer with worldclass TDD is the best attributes to have in MMA

 

[n.diazismylife1999]

Right, grappling is even beneficial under a rule set that is supposed prohibit grappling. Thanks for proving my point moron.

Because the rules allow grappling without a way to punish it, moron. The rules also say you have to wear huge frigging gloves that make preventing clinching harder.