Is Palestine Jordan?

Discussion in 'The War Room' started by squeezewax, Dec 7, 2017 at 4:22 AM.

  1. squeezewax Purple Belt

    squeezewax
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    A few days back there was a guy on the tv saying Palestine is Jordan and Jordan is Palestine, i'd not heard of this before. According to what i read plenty of people, including Arabs believe this to be true.
    So i've just been looking up some articles about this but as usual not everyone agrees, surprize, surprize. I wish there was a definitive answer to this whole Israel/Palestine thing but there never will be i suppose.

    I know in the West the majority seems to be on the Palestinian side along with hatred of Israel. I've tried over the years to understand this problem but always come away with more questions. As far as i'm aware the jews have been in that part of the world for thousands of years haven't they? Do the Palestinians claim they were there before that?
    This whole thing can get very emotive, i just want the truth whoever is right.

    Here is a quote from one of the links:
    “Palestine has never existed – before or since – as an autonomous entity. It was ruled alternately by Rome, by Islamic and Christian crusaders, by the Ottoman Empire, and briefly by the British after World War I. The British agreed to restore at least part of the land to the Jewish people as their homeland. There was no language known as Palestinian. There was no distinct Palestinian culture. There has never been a Palestine governed by the Palestinians. Palestinians are Arabs, indistinguishable from Jordanians (another recent invention), Syrians, Lebanese, Iraqis, etc.”


    http://tundratabloids.com/jordan-is-palestine/

    https://israelamerica.wordpress.com/jordan-is-palestine-palestine-is-jordan/
     
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  2. oleDirtyBast4rd Black Belt

    oleDirtyBast4rd
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    The etymology of Jerusalem itself is a mashup of 2 different hebrew words
     
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  3. unimackpass Brown Belt

    unimackpass
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    Biblically speaking Jewish history goes back over 4,000 years when God made a covenant with Abraham to give him the land of Israel. Nothing but sagebrush basically. Specifically on Mount Moria (meaning chosen by Ya") God made a covenant with Abraham that he would be a father of many nations through his son Isaac (condensed version ). The Jewish heritage is recognized through Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. Jacob had twelve sons that became the twelve tribes of Israel that was the beginning of the Jewish lineage.

    A thousand years later Solomon built the first temple on that same location. It was the center of Jewish life and identity. It was destroyed during the Babylonian captivity at 586 bc. The second temple was built/finished at 516 bc and enlarged by King Herod 12bc. It was destroyed by the Romans 70ad.

    Jewish lineage is the only one that claims a recorded history to it's original roots Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to present day.
    Some claim that a third temple will be built according to the covenant with Abraham and others do not but it's fascinating to see where we are at in this present time in history.
    692ad the dome of the rock was built by the Muslims over the former temple location edestroyed by the Romans.
     
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    Last edited: Dec 7, 2017 at 5:54 AM
  4. unimackpass Brown Belt

    unimackpass
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    Below is a condensed description of what happened after the Roman destruction of the temple 70ad and the Jews finally returning.

    "The re-birth of Israel is an unprecedented phenomenon in human history. That a people should go into exile, be dispersed, and yet survive for 2,000 years, that they should be a nation without a national homeland and come back again, that they should re-establish that homeland is a miraculous, singular event. No one ever did such a thing."

    Little more history of the land.
    [​IMG]
    "Once the Muslims took over the Land of Israel, they held onto it with the brief exception of the period of the Crusades. (See Part 45.)

    The Turkish Ottoman Empire held onto power here the longest: from 1518 to 1917. Yet, during all this time, the Muslims generally treated the Holy Land as a backwater province. There was no attempt to make Jerusalem, which was quite run-down, an important capital city and only a few Muslim dynasties attempted to improve its infrastructure (save for Umayyads in the 7th century, the Mameluks in the 13th century the rebuilding of the walls of the city in 16th century during the reign of the Ottoman Sultan Suleiman the Magnificent.) Similarly, only limited building went on in the rest of the land, which was barren and not populated by many Arabs. The only major new city built was Ramle, which served as the Ottoman administrative center.

    Mark Twain who visited Israel in 1867 described it like this in Innocents Abroad:

    We traversed some miles of desolate country whose soil is rich enough but is given wholly to weeds ― a silent, mournful expanse... A desolation is here that not even imagination can grace with the pomp of life and action. We reached Tabor safely... We never saw a human being on the whole route. We pressed on toward the goal of our crusade, renowned Jerusalem. The further we went the hotter the sun got and the more rocky and bare, repulsive and dreary the landscape became... There was hardly a tree or a shrub anywhere. Even the olive and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country. No landscape exists that is more tiresome to the eye than that which bounds the approaches to Jerusalem... Jerusalem is mournful, dreary and lifeless. I would not desire to live here. It is a hopeless, dreary, heartbroken land... Palestine sits in sackcloth and ashes."
     
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  5. rearnakedchoke Suck it!

    rearnakedchoke
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    They should have all palestinians who want to, move to jordan. Israel should take control of all of israel and if palestinians want to stay that is fine.

    Jordan should adopt the jumpman symbol on their flag and make mj an honorary citizen with oil shares.
     
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  6. Billy no mates Blue Belt

    Billy no mates
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    Not sure the Jordanians would be super keen on that idea , remember Black September .
     
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  7. Kafir-kun Gold Belt

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    On paper Palestine has never been autonomous but in practice it was under the rule Zahir al Umar
    I don't know how much significance this has to the current conflict but its a fun bit obscure history.
     
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  8. Kafir-kun Gold Belt

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    The king certainty didn't think of the Palestinians as Jordanians then.
     
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  9. splendica Brown Belt

    splendica
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    This.
     
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  10. cincymma79 Black Belt

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    Doesn’t matter. They just want all the Jews dead. Even if we condemn the settlements, and most do, we have to acknowledge there’s never going to be peace as long as Jews are there anywhere
     
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  11. Son of Jamin Make MMA Great Again

    Son of Jamin
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    Hamas doesn't even treat political opponents or Christian Palestinians well (an understatement) and some people want me to believe that Hamas would co-exist in a friendly way with Jews if they had the power to kill Jews...
     
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  12. DamasR Orange Belt

    DamasR
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    parts of palestine are occupied by jordan that is correct.
     
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  13. unimackpass Brown Belt

    unimackpass
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    Thanks for the input, interesting part of history that is right in all our faces once again.
     
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  14. Phr3121 Purple Belt

    Phr3121
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    Palestine is now Israel.

    That covenant was broken when the Jews killed Jesus.

    Yeah, lets return the United States back to the American Indians and go back to England.

    [​IMG]
     
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  15. PainIsLIfe Gold Belt

    PainIsLIfe
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    I find it odd that he never controlled / tried to control Jerusalem.
     
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  16. PainIsLIfe Gold Belt

    PainIsLIfe
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    Don't forget Lebanon, Syria, and part of Iraq.
     
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  17. LogicalInsanity Gold Belt

    LogicalInsanity
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    That entire region is incredibly "Fun" and fascinating to read about .

    I think the best book I've ever read on the matter was "War without end."

    It chronicled this conflict from the very beginning.
     
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  18. BassAckwards Brown Belt

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    why dont the palestinians just claim that they are canaanites. then they can use the bible as their reference to being the original inhabitants.... i guess they'd have to give up alah and worship baal
     
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  19. unimackpass Brown Belt

    unimackpass
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    Now there's a can of worms, your either very brave or love the grind. :)
     
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  20. Kafir-kun Gold Belt

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    I love the Ottoman period in particular. There are a lot of guys like Zahir who nominally were a part of the Ottoman system but in practice challenged it and tried to carve out their own de facto "sheikhdoms".

    I wish there was someone like an Arab Thomas Jefferson or George Washington who could've successfully challenged the Ottomans and created a de jure separation from them, I think an Arab state born of such circumstances would've been better off than the dysfunctional states created by the colonialists. Zahir could've been such a figure but he was unfortunately one of the losers of history in the end. Had a good run though I'll admit.
    I don't, that would be far too gutsy a move. The religious significance of Jerusalem to the Muslim world gave the Ottomans a lot of legitimacy as its custodians so they would not take attacks on it lightly. And the thing is the territory he controlled was not among the most productive of the empire(without a doubt that was Egypt) which meant there was a limit to the resources of his enterprise. He took his most bold steps after allying with Ali Bey Al Kabir, his Egyptian counterpart, so I think he was aware of the limits of his power.
     
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