is Krav Maga really effective

[KMOne]

you are such a *** dude.

It's a gift. :icon_chee

 

[swyftdahoe]

Teach me muay thai and bjj and give me a gun and I'm good to go in nearly all situations. That's my take on it.

 

[FyouKantCme]

well since i'm going to train in it i guess i'll find out how effective it really is.

 

[jkemper]

At the risk of beating a long dead horse, I would like to add my thoughts. I am appalled at some of the attitudes of some of the practitioners here. I studied Krav and Escrima and a tiny bit of BJJ and even TKD back in the day. A true fighter should seek the good things of all the styles and use them to make himself/herself a more complete fighter. To generalize and say a style is stupid is well stupid, and ignorant. There are Krav practitioners who would WHOOOP your *** so bad, and sooooo quickly you would eat your words. Additionally, they are not invincible and could very well be outmatched by MT or WC Escrima BJJ or whatever. The point is, your experience is just your own. My studio emphasizes kickboxing and groundfighting as a foundation, and then moves on to more advanced techniques. All of the Krav Maga techniques have roots in MT BJJ and every martial art you can imagine even kung fu. They take what they want from the martial arts, and turn it into a style that works for a specific purpose. So if your hating on Krav Maga, your hating on martial arts as a whole, (by the way Krav Maga is not a martial art as a technicality it is a fighting style devoid of artistic focus) These techniques are all utilized in sparring , which occurs as soon as you are level 2. The difference is when you get someone in an arm bar, you dont break it, you make them tap out. When striking to the throat, you dont try and collapse their windpipe, but simply remove the ability for them to breathe temporarily. Variable levels of force application are emphasized so you can spar with any MMA practitioner using basic standup and ground skills, but if someone wants to kill you, you can do some serious damage. You obviously cant throw kicks to the knee caps in sparring, but you can throw kicks to other areas and work on your technique which can allow you to later strike at more lethal targets. In addition, groin shots and headbutts are permitted in sparring. Also, how could you possibly hate on slow fighting. Watch people go 100% first, it is a MESS. Get the technique the spacing and whatnot down slower, and work up to it. Then go nuts and wail on eachother. So all in all, stop judging, open your mind and heart, and then you will not be an ignorant dogmatic lout! Best of luck with all your training.

 

[Alhazred]

I think they know some BJJ moves like RNC, but Krav teaches nothing about groundwork. My friend and I were sparing once, and every time I got him down he said "if this were real I would go for your eyes or ....".

I guess it hinges on when you plan to use Krav Maga. Like the above said, maybe for self defense it would be cool, but probably not an effective sport background or something you compete in for fun.

How does Krav fare in the standup portion?

Hi everyone, I'm new here. I did some judo (green belt), boxing, and it's been 3 months I do Krav maga.

Krav teaches nothing about groundwork?!! We have like 50/50 stand-up and groundwork, with triangles, chokes and armbars. But all this, with the self-defence Krav maga instructor, former cop, underlining: "NEVER GO ON THE GROUND in the serious street fight". We train ground technics and work them on the ground sparrings just to be prepared for the groundfighting.

About striking technics, it looks like mix of boxing, muay-thai low kicks, but instead of punching in the head, it's more in the groin. Striking technics are trained like in boxing, muay thai: TRAINING, work with gloves and (i dunno what is it in English, the gloves which your partner holds to make you work your punches or elbow strikes), full-contact with MMA gloves, and half contact.

Your friend is right, but he can use slight contact punches in the throat, groin and eyes to show you better how it works. These kind of "dirty" (in reality, absolutely necessary in the street defence) tricks are trained in half-contact, light sparrings with groin protection.

 

[Alhazred]

This thread is getting old so Ill just address some quick points. KM guys are bad kickers everywhere I went. The only kick they do good is the ball kick. They keep their guard up so stiff and they do snap kicks. I have seen a Krav instructor try to do a Muay Thai style kick before. But he does it bad, like a MT student of one month. Not just kicks, their punching is like boxing... but super sloppy watered down boxing. 2nd, I never said they do fancy bullshit. I said they do sloppy bullshit. 3rd technique is everything, the technique in Muay Thai is inherently superior so it will be more effective at all levels. Ive seen some MT students that look horrible in the beginning too. All beginners look bad. Actually MT is harder to learn so some students look really bad when they first start. When Im comparing in my head its with instructors ie MT instructors vs KM instructors.

Finally my main point is... why Krav? There are lots of good gyms that offer decent Muay Thai, Boxing, Wrestling, and BJJ under one roof. Learn the original techniques and proper techniques. Dirty tricks are easy, any untrained person can do dirty tricks. I know how to gouge an eye or kick a guy in the balls or hit him in the throat or do something nasty. I dont need Krav to teach me this.

OK I have to go work on my paper.

I have heard a lot of different MA practicioners saying: "we too can gouge an eye or kick balls". The problem is, that in a street fight, being adrenalized, you will apply technics you've been working on for years, without even think, because under adrenaline, average people work more on reflexes than on thinking. Non-trained people will act on instincts, as say Marc Macyoung, they will apply their natural "monkey" way to fight. Judo practicioner will apply judo stuff, etc. If you were not training ball kicks (it's not so easy to do it in a fight), under adrenaline you may simply forget them. And the most important. Muay Thai, Boxing and BJJ teach you how to fight! Only, fight is illegal. On the street you have right to defend yourself, not to fight. And it's different thing.

 

[Alhazred]

In a real combat on the street, people become animals. And does everything like biting,hitting, kicking,eyepoking and whatever. Its the human surviving instinct.

I'm not a street brawler, but I've been in several street fights last several years. I would say it depends. Not all street fights are necessarily that intense. Most fights I've seen were just exchange of few punches, lot of yelling and insulting.

 

[Alhazred]

So why not go train MT with a real Muay Thai instructor ? :icon_lol:

Answer is simple. First, MT is a sport, for people who WANT sport fighting. KM is not a sport. It's not necessarily for people who like sport fighting, but for anyone, who wants to enhance ones chances to defend oneself in street fight and to stay alive and avoid being injured and brutalized. Any good KM school will include some undispensable knowledge of how to evaluate the situation, and what to do, apart from applying violence in self defence.

Personnaly, I'm crazy about BJJ and plan to start it as soon, as I'll have more free time. But I'm conscient, that it's a sport, and I won't apply it on the street.

 

[thirteen]

The originator of Krav Maga was a fan of 'sport fighting'.

"As a young man, Lichtenfeld was a successful boxer and wrestler.[3] He competed at national and international levels and was a champion and member of the Slovakian National Wrestling Team".
Imi Lichtenfeld - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[heyyouduh]

I have heard a lot of different MA practicioners saying: "we too can gouge an eye or kick balls". The problem is, that in a street fight, being adrenalized, you will apply technics you've been working on for years, without even think, because under adrenaline, average people work more on reflexes than on thinking. Non-trained people will act on instincts, as say Marc Macyoung, they will apply their natural "monkey" way to fight. Judo practicioner will apply judo stuff, etc. If you were not training ball kicks (it's not so easy to do it in a fight), under adrenaline you may simply forget them. And the most important. Muay Thai, Boxing and BJJ teach you how to fight! Only, fight is illegal. On the street you have right to defend yourself, not to fight. And it's different thing.

What I'm skeptical about is, can groin kicks, eye gouges, throat strikes etc. be trained during sparring? If so, how? Shadowboxing and hitting pads can only go so far, to really learn and apply something you need to spar using it. Thanks for your post.

 

[Alhazred]

What I'm skeptical about is, can groin kicks, eye gouges, throat strikes etc. be trained during sparring? If so, how? Shadowboxing and hitting pads can only go so far, to really learn and apply something you need to spar using it. Thanks for your post.

It can be perfectly trained in sparrings. First of all, we wear groin protection. Second, in Krav maga we have half-contact sparrings too, where you don't hit hard, if you give a groin kick, you go easy, despite the protection. Throat punch you do with fingers, you go easy too . It's not painful at all, and I received and gave them hundreds of times. The beginners do half-contact "without limitations" slow at first, and after several weeks they speed up. Eye goudges, I've never seen them being applied in stand-up, but in the groundfighting we do them all the time, you put fingers or thumbs in his eyes and just press a little bit, without hurting your partner, I did it dozens of times too, without any trouble, including on guys who crosstrain in BJJ. The principle is like when you do an armbar, you don't break his arm, but you press it each time a bit harder if your opponent doesn't give up. In fullcontacts we had had just after Christmass I've seen guys get out of JJ holds by eyegoudges, and there were NO WAY they could have escaped differently.

Ex.people who do some jj or bjj, maybe know how this technic calls: "the victim" is lying on the floor, and the "holder" is sitting in the level of the "victim's" shoulders, not on him, but on the side, and choking the victim with the arm, put around "victims" neck, second arm holds the wrist of the choking arm. "Holder's" legs are bypassing the "victim's" head, or just stretched on the side, and each time victim tries to trap the "holder's" legs, he's just moving in circles, like kinda walking but in lying position.

"The victim" grabbed the guy with both hands to approach to the "holder". Then he put the hand on holder's face and pressed his eyes. Of course, the holder's reaction was to try to avoid the hand by moving his head, but in this effort he had slightly detached himself, so the "victim" immediately liberated himself from the hold and they both stood up. I was the victim, it was my first full contact, and the guy trains in Gracie Barra (but the truth it's been just several months he's there). I've watched the same thing in several other full-contacts.

As I said, I was doing the Judo before (around 2 years), we did like around 50/50 ground and stand-ups. One of my first ground-fights in KM I was against the girl of my size (I'm 5.7), which had already been practicing KM like two months or so. I got used to the groundfighting during Judo, and was quite confident. First thing, that surprised me: it was more brutal than Judo, I wasn't expecting to have been grabbed by the hair, or to have fingers put into my eyes, grabbing my cheeks with girl's nails, I won, but it was quite painful, althought she wasn't going 100% of course, with these "dirty" tricks.

 

[Alhazred]

you get to test your techniques and the highly intense repetative training really sharpens your skills and make all your moves natural,you also get used to taking a hit.
.

Agree at 100% with you. And this is exactly what we do in KM. Repetitive training of techniques and applying them in sparrings.

 

[Malchir]

I have heard a lot of different MA practicioners saying: "we too can gouge an eye or kick balls". The problem is, that in a street fight, being adrenalized, you will apply technics you've been working on for years, without even think, because under adrenaline, average people work more on reflexes than on thinking. Non-trained people will act on instincts, as say Marc Macyoung, they will apply their natural "monkey" way to fight. Judo practicioner will apply judo stuff, etc. If you were not training ball kicks (it's not so easy to do it in a fight), under adrenaline you may simply forget them. And the most important. Muay Thai, Boxing and BJJ teach you how to fight! Only, fight is illegal. On the street you have right to defend yourself, not to fight. And it's different thing.

Yes, a punch is illegal, but poking someone eye out, kicking him in the balls or busting in his adam's apple isn't of course. If you're from France, it might be time to check your nation's law.

Krav Maga isn't self defense, it's a war style. I have been extremely disappointed with the civilian versions of the style. I was very lucky to get a better version in my bodyguarding formation from one of Europe's best trainers. Sadly I can't use most of this shit until I'm being shot at or assaulted with weaponry. They don't say that in the civilian versions.

Here's 1 of the 3 pillars of the law on lawful defence of my country, a translation:
The amount of damage delivered has to be in line with the amount of damage the attacker does.

It's all fun and games until you permanently blind a guy in a silly bar brawl and end up having to pay up for the rest of your life. And yes, that shit happens. The techniques in learn in KM were worthless when I was bouncing, the tactical approach on the other hand, very useful. They should focus on that more in the civilian version.

 

[SUBfighterIL]

Krav Maga is not a ring martial art and it is not a sport.
Muay Thai is a sport, BJJ, Judo, TKD etc... are sports
Krav Maga consists of very simple techniques that anybody can learn and apply.
I have used it in real combat,and I have seen it used in real combat.
Payak Muay Thai is not combat its is a sport and I should know that too because im a professional fighter too.
When you are wearing a ceramic armor that weighs 30 lbs and above that a vest that weighs another 25 lbs, note that a helmet is on your head and a rifle is in your arms.
Now try to knee somebody in the head, or throw a combo of punches.

 

[Tempo]

Its a womans defense art, go for the balls. At all costs, go for the balls.
Not bashing it! Just not my scene.

 

[heyyouduh]

hey thanks for a very detailed reply, appreciate it!

It can be perfectly trained in sparrings. First of all, we wear groin protection. Second, in Krav maga we have half-contact sparrings too, where you don't hit hard, if you give a groin kick, you go easy, despite the protection. Throat punch you do with fingers, you go easy too . It's not painful at all, and I received and gave them hundreds of times. The beginners do half-contact "without limitations" slow at first, and after several weeks they speed up. Eye goudges, I've never seen them being applied in stand-up, but in the groundfighting we do them all the time, you put fingers or thumbs in his eyes and just press a little bit, without hurting your partner, I did it dozens of times too, without any trouble, including on guys who crosstrain in BJJ. The principle is like when you do an armbar, you don't break his arm, but you press it each time a bit harder if your opponent doesn't give up. In fullcontacts we had had just after Christmass I've seen guys get out of JJ holds by eyegoudges, and there were NO WAY they could have escaped differently.

Ex.people who do some jj or bjj, maybe know how this technic calls: "the victim" is lying on the floor, and the "holder" is sitting in the level of the "victim's" shoulders, not on him, but on the side, and choking the victim with the arm, put around "victims" neck, second arm holds the wrist of the choking arm. "Holder's" legs are bypassing the "victim's" head, or just stretched on the side, and each time victim tries to trap the "holder's" legs, he's just moving in circles, like kinda walking but in lying position.

"The victim" grabbed the guy with both hands to approach to the "holder". Then he put the hand on holder's face and pressed his eyes. Of course, the holder's reaction was to try to avoid the hand by moving his head, but in this effort he had slightly detached himself, so the "victim" immediately liberated himself from the hold and they both stood up. I was the victim, it was my first full contact, and the guy trains in Gracie Barra (but the truth it's been just several months he's there). I've watched the same thing in several other full-contacts.

As I said, I was doing the Judo before (around 2 years), we did like around 50/50 ground and stand-ups. One of my first ground-fights in KM I was against the girl of my size (I'm 5.7), which had already been practicing KM like two months or so. I got used to the groundfighting during Judo, and was quite confident. First thing, that surprised me: it was more brutal than Judo, I wasn't expecting to have been grabbed by the hair, or to have fingers put into my eyes, grabbing my cheeks with girl's nails, I won, but it was quite painful, althought she wasn't going 100% of course, with these "dirty" tricks.

 

[Human Bass]

Well, the techniques of Krav-Maga surely are effective, since most of the are classics. Straight punches, kick to the balls, elbows, agressive wrist locks (no "smooth" aikido approach).

But KM is also a state of mind, to keep things as simple as possible, what makes it sometimes "unfunny".

 

[Midnighter]

Its a womans defense art, go for the balls. At all costs, go for the balls.
Not bashing it! Just not my scene.

Try that kung fu crap with me and I'll fuck your balls up homie.

pause

 

[Syra]

I agree with you OP, to an extent. I think it has some very useful techinques that is great to know in a street fight. But you need to have a good "foundation" in your fighting, which I don't think that Krav Maga can give you.

BUT, if combined with alot of sparring and traiing in MMA or Muay Thai, to make you comfortable in fighting situations, I think that combination would be absolutly great.

 

[DARTTC]

I am a practicing KM student L3 in TX KMWW affiliate. I have some history with Hapkido, Aikido and military hand to hand combat (USN SCARS). KM is very similar to the military style training as it is all about the martial and less about the art.

In my opinion KM does some things really well:

1. Gets you into fighting shape - Kicks, punches, groundwork, footwork, weapons drills etc..
2. Multiple attacker drills
3. Offensive mindset
4. Simplicity - use what comes naturally to you, knees, elbows, groin kicks, palms, hammer fist etc..