Is judo really suboptimal for MMA or are there just more wrestlers?

[Bend NvR Break]

ya i dont think shoes would be a big deal anyways. they let you wear them in pride but i think if you had a weight advantage over opponent than you couldn't soccer kick people on the ground. in unified rules soccer kicks aint there so shoes would be fine but maybe not allow foot stomps with shoes lol.

As far as the wrestling goes, if shoes were allowed TD defense numbers would go down. A lot more people would end up on their back. That extra friction matters.

 

[Taric]

Wrestling in America does teach submissions. Hell, the Twister is a wrestling move.

While it's certainly true that an armbar could happen, more times than not, they wouldn't get the chance before they are passed.

A pure wrestler is going to be completely baffled how to handle a guy using guard. Passing guard is literally pure bjj and judo since when you're in the same position in wrestling you've lost to the pin... It's actually funny how in wrestling a successful defensive position is being on your stomach, and in anything else being on your stomach is suicide.

Honestly there's no grappling art that encompasses everything you need in MMA. No-gi submission grappling is the amalgamation of a dozen different arts at this point.

 

[MMonk]

1. Olympic style judo is not made for fighting. To much emphasis on sport and not actually combat/fighting/self defense.

2. A judoka with a serious ne waza game is an extremely dangerous opponent. Top game is heavy enough to control most BJJ guys and they are still good enough with subs to pull off a sub from the bottom with a wrestler on top of them.

Examples see Fedor, Mousasi, Karo, hell even Khabib uses a lot of judo when he fights

Fedor and Khabib are primarely ( combat) sambists.
Sambo is better than Judo. Combat Sambo is really powerfull.
Much more techniques allowed, more throws, subs and leglocks!

 

[KoreanZawmbie]

Forget Ronda, look at earlier fights of Karo Parisyan to see how effective judo could be

 

[KoreanZawmbie]

Judo is a great base. But you need more than just one discipline to take it to the top. Ronda, for ex., could have retired undefeated if her striking wasn't garbage and if she had a coach who taught her the basics of energy management, some ring IQ, wrestling techniques, etc.

I agree with the idea that there being relatively fewer judokas in MMA than wrestlers skews people's perceptions on the style's effectiveness.

She was too far late into the game to learn the stand up game.

 

[Bend NvR Break]

Fedor and Khabib are primarely ( combat) sambists.
Sambo is better than Judo. Combat Sambo is really powerfull.
Much more techniques allowed, more throws, subs and leglocks!

I don't know any Khabib but Fedor started doing judo earlier than anything else he did. Started at like 8 or something.

 

[14.09]

Pure judo beats pure wrestling. Look at Olympic medalist wrestlers, like Karam Gaber Ibrahim, Istvan Majoros, Katsuhiko Nagata, Eldar Kurtanidze who tried MMA. Then look at how Yoshida, Akiyama, Takimoto, Nastula, Nakamura etc did right away without much cross-training. And look beyond their records too.

As for a base for further MMA training, I don't know. Wrestling benefits from being no-gi, judo benefits from submissions. Both train hard and physically.

 

[empsim]

some techniques are illegal in judo and you have a gi to grab.

wrestling is just much closer to mma grappling.

 

[MMonk]

I don't know any Khabib but Fedor started doing judo earlier than anything else he did. Started at like 8 or something.

He did and competed in both.
Right after demobilizing from army in 1997 he became master of sports in both Sambo and Judo.

Then in 1999 he was a part of Russian Sambo team and competed in world cup.
He was doing Sambo and Combat Sambo along with competeing in MMA,
winning numberous gold medals.

 

[Lumberjacks]

The problem is that Judo is way too elitist.
Feeling above all else combat sports. Changing the rules to make it more boring everytime. And when Japanese judoka's get dominated some rules change in their favour. So it has to do alot more with the politics of judo making it less suitable as a base for mma.

 

[14.09]

The problem is that Judo is way too elitist.
Feeling above all else combat sports. Changing the rules to make it more boring everytime. And when Japanese judoka's get dominated some rules change in their favour. So it has to do alot more with the politics of judo making it less suitable as a base for mma.

May I ask you, what was the time that Japanese judokas got dominated? I know many singular judokas get occasionally dominated here and there, but I don't think you are suggesting they changed rules for some specific judokas.

 

[14.09]

I think a peripheral aspect of it is that wrestlers are used to long, brutal practices from early on and develop a certain work ethic and tolerance for unpleasantness that helps with mma training

This applies to judo just as much. I'm not positive about the US but at least in the big judo countries.

 

[14.09]

I remember judo banning some leg takedowns a few years ago because freestyle wrestlers used to enter judo tournaments and beat them.
So if they were beaten by wrestlers even under their own rules, I think that says it all.

This is some stupid myth. You really think there was a time when a wrestler could enter and win a judo tournament? Haha, bullshit. Maybe in some US small town dojo challenge, but not anywhere near the bigger leagues. I'm pretty sure the change was made to distinguish it from wrestling in the casual eyes watching the Olympics.

 

[mraa1]

This is some stupid myth. You really think there was a time when a wrestler could enter and win a judo tournament? Haha, bullshit. Maybe in some US small town dojo challenge, but not anywhere near the bigger leagues. I'm pretty sure the change was made to distinguish it from wrestling in the casual eyes watching the Olympics.

obviously double and single legs were too effective otherwise a ban would be unnecessary to distinguish judo from wrestling.

 

[Durr T Sanchez]

Ill just go and say Russian Samb

Dirty Sanchez is the only TMA that translates well to MMA.

You're absolutely right!

 

[LastingEffect]

its not accurate really. judo is really good. not only do they have good trips and throws but they usually have a better grasp of the submission game as well.

Yes.. But you have potential to give your back on throws.

 

[Wariowokecancel]

its not accurate really. judo is really good. not only do they have good trips and throws but they usually have a better grasp of the submission game as well.

Submissions in judo better than bjj... nope.

 

[Lumberjacks]

May I ask you, what was the time that Japanese judokas got dominated? I know many singular judokas get occasionally dominated here and there, but I don't think you are suggesting they changed rules for some specific judokas.

London Olympics. And no not really for specific judokas. I'm long gone from anything judo related. But it's just a sport which is too controlled by politics within the sport itself. Which you at times will see in the rules changes.

 

[14.09]

London Olympics. And no not really for specific judokas. I'm long gone from anything judo related. But it's just a sport which is too controlled by politics within the sport itself. Which you at times will see in the rules changes.

I know that definitely was the worst results for Japanese judo ever, but a gold, 3 silvers and 3 bronzes isn't getting dominated. And what rules did they change after that?

 

[MescalineDreams]

crazy how much people are underrating Judo in this thread.

Judo when applied to MMA Is deadly