Is it safe to say alot of amateur fight gyms don't have clue about programming, planning + S&C

I know you dudes are going to flame the shit out of me but here goes....

It's a common theme on this forum for lifting/fitness pro's to try to place their training standards on martial arts training but, the two aren't the same. Aside from hard sparring most martial arts training programs are extremely low impact on the body.

Almost all martial arts techniques(striking and grappling) are comprised of total body movements. There are very few techniques drilled in martial arts were the workload is placed on isolated muscles or muscle groups the way it is in lifting.

I'm not going to have a martial arts training session that completely obliterates my legs, or arms, or back and is going to require me to lay off another session for at least a few days. Shadow boxing, low impact. Can work everyday. Pad work low impact. Can work every day. Bag work, semi low impact. Can work everyday. Tech sparring, low impact. Can work everyday. Wrestling/jiujitsu drilling, low impact. Can work everyday. Wrestling/jiujitsu sparring, semi low impact. Can work every day.

Add onto the fact that all these activities are almost always conducted on thick padded mats, and you have a workout routine that is generally very easy going on the body.

IMO, to many MMA fighters prioritize S&C separate from the training they are already conducting. GSP himself said that he lifts weights to look good, and in turn feel good about himself, not because it actually aids in his performance as a fighter.

Wrestling "sparring" is extremely high impact. Most of the injuries in training camp happen as a result of wrestling.
 
Wrestling "sparring" is extremely high impact. Most of the injuries in training camp happen as a result of wrestling.

All grappling training, whether you're talking jiujitsu or wrestling, is only high impact if you are referring to inexperienced individuals training under inexperienced coaches who don't know how to ease new grapplers into the program. Specifically I'm talking about the "show them a few techniques and then throw them on the mat for X amount of rounds" variety.
 
All grappling training, whether you're talking jiujitsu or wrestling, is only high impact if you are referring to inexperienced individuals training under inexperienced coaches who don't know how to ease new grapplers into the program. Specifically I'm talking about the "show them a few techniques and then throw them on the mat for X amount of rounds" variety.

Have you ever wrestled live? It is extremely hard on the body.

You are correct that bjj is not high impact.
 
I don't think most here actually prioritizes strength work, S&C, etc. over technique and skillwork. Your body adjusts with a new stimulus, and maybe in a week or 2 will be able to handle heavy lifting and training. Of course heavy lifting for us does not mean a full Russian PL type routine, thats way too taxing for most.

You also have to see the types of people posting here, its likely not alot of posters are top level UFC fighters, they're hobbyists and low to intermediate level competitors. Posters who ask questions about S&C work are usually people who like MMA/BJJ/Striking, got into it, started competing, but never had an athletic base growing up; So at that stage of development, a basic program goes a long way, and benefits much more than endless circuits and running.

At the big picture, ignore it, there is no negatives to it:
  • Your metabolism increases significantly (you can eat more food)
  • You get stronger
  • Address muscle imbalances (a huge issue with combat sport practitioners)
  • Usually if planned right your explosive strength improves as well
Thats not to mention as well, if both of you have similar a skill level in a contest in something grinding like the clinch, and your opposition is weaker, they'll exert much more energy trying to match or overcoming you.

The problem is it takes time to show. New guy can show up to BJJ x5 a week and in a month he'll be able to escape mount under a heavier guy. For the strength to reap its reward, its gonna be at least 4-12 months before significant usage appears. So really its a long term investment.

My problem is coaches not accepting that people have different body types/needs and not everyone is meant to be a thin lanky striker; Telling people to lose muscle to murder themselves to be weak, lethargic, and flat is not what should be happening. I've experienced it myself, seen teammates and others (from sister gyms) get mauled by fighters who have done good strength work, and despite them being shorter, they dominated. Quite a of those guys had finishes as well. Height is an important attribute, but its not the be all end all of things.

Also it depends on your stage as a fighter, at the novice level things are very aggressive and athletically fueled, little to no technique is used due to lack of exp. nerves, etc. Being athletic and strong at this stage counts for alot, once a fighter reaches the late-intermediate to advanced (10+ fights), is when technique and tactics really start to shine. I'm mostly referring to striking in this.

GSP: Thats to say the strength work didn't help him. Benching 315 is a huge strength milestone for alot people and he's reaping the benefits of it.
Its like winning the lottery, then saying you did it because you enjoy it which is fine. But after winning the lottery, you buy 3 super cars, and a 4000sq ft home, and say it did not help with that is misleading.

I think part of the problem you are referring too, pertaining to the "coaches wanting fighters to be weak and lethargic" is a weight class problem. If you have guy that is lean and healthy at 175lb there isn't a coach on this planet that is going to advise him to fight at welterweight. Hopefully the addition of more weight classes will help with this.

As a fighter who has been in the amateur ranks, and as a coach who has had fighters in the ammy ranks I can tell you that being strong and athletic only counts for a lot if you have little skill and are fighting someone who is a true amateur. The ammy ranks are filled a sizable % of "Professional Amateurs" fighters that are only amateurs because of their experience level, not because of their skill level.

Again I see the comment "if the skill level is similar in a grinding area like the clinch, then the stronger fighter will win." First, the clinch is only a grinding position if you have no technique. If you technique in the clinch is close in skill as your opponents technique in the clinch, then you are both "strong in the clinch" If you both weigh the same, your opponents ability to bench/squat/power clean 300lbs isn't going to give him any edge in overcoming your technical prowess in the clinch. It's only if he weighs more will he be able to leverage more power into his technique to overcome yours.

GSP specifically said that he believes lifting weights gives no advantage to technical prowess. In the same video he refers to a kickboxing coach that was out of shape, over weight, and constantly smoked cigarettes, but when they put the gloves on and started sparing he beat the shit out of everyone. Even though the guy was a fat slob, a lifetime of kickboxing had conditioned his body to efficiently conduct the movements required to overcome younger, stronger, more athletic fighters under the specific rule set his body was accustomed to.
 
Have you ever wrestled live? It is extremely hard on the body.

You are correct that bjj is not high impact.
If you think wrestling is hard on the body then you probably aren't doing it right. Wrestling is as every bit as technical as Jiujitsu. The only way it could be high impact is if you're training partners are slamming you.
 
If you think wrestling is hard on the body then you probably aren't doing it right. Wrestling is as every bit as technical as Jiujitsu. The only way it could be high impact is if you're training partners are slamming you.

I wrestled D2, won a state title in HS, and now coach wrestling. It is extremely hard on the body when wrestling live. Drilling or technique, semi low impact.
 
I wrestled D2, won a state title in HS, and now coach wrestling. It is extremely hard on the body when wrestling live. Drilling or technique, semi low impact.
I guess we have different opinions on what is considered high impact.
 
Have you ever wrestled live?
I never wrestled in HS or college, but I have had extensive training in freestyle and Greco roman under a former west point wrestling coach. I've also been in 15 MMA fights. So yeah, ive rassled live.
 
I never wrestled in HS or college, but I have had extensive training in freestyle and Greco roman under a former west point wrestling coach. I've also been in 15 MMA fights. So yeah, ive rassled live.

So you've been hit with a high dive and bombed on your head, I'm assuming. Or gutted. Or chest wrapped. That's all high impact.
 
So you've been hit with a high dive and bombed on your head, I'm assuming. Or gutted. Or chest wrapped. That's all high impact.
Ok now we are just getting into a dick measuring competition. I've been double leg slammed, blast double slammed, hip tossed, arm spined, high crotch to helicopter, belly to backed in a fight, throw with an uchi Mata in a fight.

Must have missed the part of my post where I said unless you're partner is slamming you, wrestling is low impact.
 
Wrestling has to be the toughest shit I've ever done, definitely not low impact.
 
Ok now we are just getting into a dick measuring competition. I've been double leg slammed, blast double slammed, hip tossed, arm spined, high crotch to helicopter, belly to backed in a fight, throw with an uchi Mata in a fight.

Must have missed the part of my post where I said unless you're partner is slamming you, wrestling is low impact.

But when you're going live, you're going to get slammed.

And what in the fuck is a high crotch to a helicopter lmao
 
I know you dudes are going to flame the shit out of me but here goes....

It's a common theme on this forum for lifting/fitness pro's to try to place their training standards on martial arts training but, the two aren't the same. Aside from hard sparring most martial arts training programs are extremely low impact on the body.

Almost all martial arts techniques(striking and grappling) are comprised of total body movements. There are very few techniques drilled in martial arts were the workload is placed on isolated muscles or muscle groups the way it is in lifting.

I'm not going to have a martial arts training session that completely obliterates my legs, or arms, or back and is going to require me to lay off another session for at least a few days. Shadow boxing, low impact. Can work everyday. Pad work low impact. Can work every day. Bag work, semi low impact. Can work everyday. Tech sparring, low impact. Can work everyday. Wrestling/jiujitsu drilling, low impact. Can work everyday. Wrestling/jiujitsu sparring, semi low impact. Can work every day.

Add onto the fact that all these activities are almost always conducted on thick padded mats, and you have a workout routine that is generally very easy going on the body.

IMO, to many MMA fighters prioritize S&C separate from the training they are already conducting. GSP himself said that he lifts weights to look good, and in turn feel good about himself, not because it actually aids in his performance as a fighter.

yes low impact/light training can be tolerable for all if not most people. It definitely can especially if they are mentally and emotionally invested in it.

where it get's tricky is implementing hard days, what the athlete is doing and for how many/long daily, weekly, monthly and to tie that in with their own personal schedule that would allow them to recover and make gain's off from.
 
My coach doesn't know shit about S&C lol. Great national level fighter but extremely limited in all other aspect.
To his defence tho', what he did worked for him..

I actually struggle with this myself. I get told all the time that I kick and punch really hard ; I do attribute this to my years in powerlifting. But as I go lower and lower in weight and I spend more time running then doing the big three I feel myself shrinking.
Not sure what route to take..

I always imagine that having a good benchpress is better than having a pussy benchpress.. If you have the time and energy.

Keep it basic.

Not sure what's your experience or fitness level and schedule is like but most people starting out a discipline, if your priority is to learn, then commit to that.

You can still lift twice a week, full body and do something like 2-3x Steady state sessions which is also great for active recovery and building an aerobic base. You also can incorporate skill training as steady state session as its low impact.

Most importantly just keep learning at the early stages and keep S&C simple and basic for general health & fitness.

Now if strength or endurance or you have a fight that you need to prioritize, then that is a different approach.
 
I don't know where it comes from that GSP puts up big numbers. He's always been an advocate for doing less S&C and more the sport. T&F and gymnastics > olylifting and weightlifting > bodybuilding is what he says.

Check this out:


About a minute after the timestamp I made he mentions the bench specificly, saying that he's not strong in the weightroom and benches two plates or two½ plates. I take it he means for reps, but still.


I agree with what he's saying but if your far out from a fight, you don't necessarily have to keep it sports specific 100% all the time if you don't want to or have to, but in a sport that involves many disciplines and the amount of time you need to dedicate being well rounded I can see where he is coming from.

If an MMA fighter who's base was wrestling, but lacks striking. Then the time when fights aren't scheduled would be a good time to prioritize striking and I would assume wrestling would be put on maintenance and S&C would be kept to minimal, since there is only so much time and energy to devote. The athlete can also consider working on a specific S&C around this time. Are they general weak? Do they lack endurance? or maybe after strenuous camp, taking a mental break is what they need?

He actually stated on a podcast, his off season is time were he learns or get's better at another art. And to his benefit it's something that he personally loves to do in his off season, so it's a win win for him.

Sorry if I went on lol
 
Keep it basic.

Not sure what's your experience or fitness level and schedule is like but most people starting out a discipline, if your priority is to learn, then commit to that.

You can still lift twice a week, full body and do something like 2-3x Steady state sessions which is also great for active recovery and building an aerobic base. You also can incorporate skill training as steady state session as its low impact.

Most importantly just keep learning at the early stages and keep S&C simple and basic for general health & fitness.

Now if strength or endurance or you have a fight that you need to prioritize, then that is a different approach.
Yea I plan on doing the 531 from Jim Wendler again. Served me well and I don't have to think about the training a whole lot.
 
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